I need to replace this load center.....how is something like this done?

[ptgarcia]

I'm going to have to replace the load center on my house before too long. The existing load center is one of those crappy Zinsco units from the mid-70s flush mounted in the south exterior wall of my stucco house. At the same time, I'd like to run conduit/wire clear around the house to the north side where I want to install a 60-90 amp sub-panel on the attached garage wall. I also want to run a 15 amp circuit (or 2, if needed) along the lot boundary lines (rear and side) for landscape lights, speakers and other low draw items for entertaining (radio, movie projector, etc). That circuit will start there at the main panel, run south underground 15' across the side yard to a block wall, and run along the wall face around the lot.

Looking at the attached picture, how is this accomplished? Is the existing load center removed, and the new one installed in the same recess (with some removal of the stucco as required)? Or will a new load center be surface mounted over or adjacent to the existing unit? If it matters, on the other side of the panel is my living room (in the last photo, behind the lamp in the corner of the room), and the attached 3-car garage is on the opposite side of the house. Also, I'll hire a licensed electrician for this job, I'm just curious how its done.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

flush panel replacements are a real pain in the ***

Is this an overhead or underground feed?

typically a new panel is surface mounted next to it so power outage is down to a minimum.

 

[Jim greengo]

Looks like pain in the ***,I've been told we arent allowed to reuse service feeds that run inside of walls to feed meyer sockets in Omaha anymore,everything has to be piped outside of wall to meter now.

 

[ptgarcia]

flush panel replacements are a real pain in the ***

Is this an overhead or underground feed?

typically a new panel is surface mounted next to it so power outage is down to a minimum.

It's an underground feed.

Regarding being a pain in the ***, the going rate to replace around here seems to reflect that: about $2500.

 

[rsanter]

Sometimes you can gut a panel and put all new stuff inside of it and keep the shell.

Sometimes you can find a whole new panel with the same dimensions and pull that one shell and all and get the new one to fit.
Odds are you may end up with one that the width is the same but you need to cut some wall out to make a taller hole for the new panel.

You can also do a surface mount panel and bring the wires in the back, put the new panel over the old can

 

[03ranger]

I’d check with your local PoCo. (SCE?) first. Do you have natural gas? If so, where does it enter the house? SoCalGas will not allow electric and gas to enter the house within three feet of each other as they use to. If replacing a main panel then you must relocate either the gas or electric go have a three foot separation.

The other thing is to be concerned with the type of wiring in the house. Check with the building dept about what is required. You may/may not have to replace branch wiring. When we replaced a Zinsco panel in a 1950‘s house in greater San Diego area that had cloth wiring, we were NOT required to upgrade the wiring, we were only replacing the main panel.

Takeaway: Check with the local PoCo and local building dept for guidance.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

It's an underground feed.

Regarding being a pain in the ***, the going rate to replace around here seems to reflect that: about $2500.

oh boy.

underground feed is even worse.

at least with overhead, one can set a new panel, riser, etc and have the panel prepped for quick cutover by PoCo.

With underground, you would need PoCo to run new feeder conduit or be without power for at least a whole day depending on PoCo schedule.

 

[mm08822]

Looks like pain in the ***,I've been told we arent allowed to reuse service feeds that run inside of walls to feed meyer sockets in Omaha anymore,everything has to be piped outside of wall to meter now.

Same here. Only place it is permitted hidden is when passing vertically through the soffit straight up to the roof for a mast installation and that is all in rigid or imc conduit.

 

[Bert_]

oh boy.

underground feed is even worse.

at least with overhead, one can set a new panel, riser, etc and have the panel prepped for quick cutover by PoCo.

With underground, you would need PoCo to run new feeder conduit or be without power for at least a whole day depending on PoCo schedule.

Not sure why you would need to run new underground or be without power for days. PoCo could cut power in the AM and you could have the old panel out and the line side wired to the new one by noon. You could have most of it back on by mid afternoon.

With this being a flush panel in stucco I might be temped to get the wall opened up a day ahead of time so there are no surprises. But that's just me and I've never been around an all in one that's flush in an exterior wall.

I almost always build a new service in the same spot as the old. I know a few guys that build the new one next to the old one and change it over a different day. I rather just do it all at once. If you move the panel then you have a bunch of wires to splice.

 

[Bert_]

As far as whether the new panel will be surface or flush mount that's a question for the utility company. For a quick idea of what is allowed look around the area at newer services.

 

[ptgarcia]

I’d check with your local PoCo. (SCE?) first. Do you have natural gas? If so, where does it enter the house? SoCalGas will not allow electric and gas to enter the house within three feet of each other as they use to. If replacing a main panel then you must relocate either the gas or electric go have a three foot separation.

The other thing is to be concerned with the type of wiring in the house. Check with the building dept about what is required. You may/may not have to replace branch wiring. When we replaced a Zinsco panel in a 1950‘s house in greater San Diego area that had cloth wiring, we were NOT required to upgrade the wiring, we were only replacing the main panel.

Takeaway: Check with the local PoCo and local building dept for guidance.

We are on natural gas, but the service is on the opposite (north) side of the house.

Nothing special about the wiring, its pretty typical of what is installed today. I've done plenty of electrical around the house, and except for what the previous owner may have done there really weren't any surprises.

oh boy.

underground feed is even worse.

at least with overhead, one can set a new panel, riser, etc and have the panel prepped for quick cutover by PoCo.

With underground, you would need PoCo to run new feeder conduit or be without power for at least a whole day depending on PoCo schedule.

Honestly, being without power for a day or two wouldn't bother me. I have lots of family within a stones throw we could shack up with for a night.

As far as whether the new panel will be surface or flush mount that's a question for the utility company. For a quick idea of what is allowed look around the area at newer services.

I've seen a couple panel replacements in the area and they were flush mount.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Not sure why you would need to run new underground or be without power for days. PoCo could cut power in the AM and you could have the old panel out and the line side wired to the new one by noon. You could have most of it back on by mid afternoon.

With this being a flush panel in stucco I might be temped to get the wall opened up a day ahead of time so there are no surprises. But that's just me and I've never been around an all in one that's flush in an exterior wall.

I almost always build a new service in the same spot as the old. I know a few guys that build the new one next to the old one and change it over a different day. I rather just do it all at once. If you move the panel then you have a bunch of wires to splice.

some PoCos such as pacific gasp and extortion are not that quick and will leave one waiting til after dark.

 

[ptgarcia]

some PoCos such as pacific gasp and extortion are not that quick and will leave one waiting til after dark.

Yeah, I won't be putting any faith in SoCal Edison to be Johnny-on-the-spot, that's for sure.

 

[Bert_]

That ***** for sure. Usually pretty quick around here. Enen the utilities that have more strict rules aren't you bad once you get to know the linemen.

Several of the REC's around here just tell you to do you thing and they'll have somebody throw a tag on it in the next couple weeks.

Even with the PoCo's that have more rules the local linemen is usually fine with me cutting the drop myself to save him a trip. If they couldn't get there to hook it back up I could reconnect it to but that is stretching the rules pretty far.

If it underground they usually take care of since they definitely don't want me in a transformer or up on their pole to disconnect it. Overhead stuff is pretty laid back though.

No way would they leave somebody without power overnight for something like this . They would get there even if it was late.

 

[Jim greengo]

That ***** for sure. Usually pretty quick around here. Enen the utilities that have more strict rules aren't you bad once you get to know the linemen.

Several of the REC's around here just tell you to do you thing and they'll have somebody throw a tag on it in the next couple weeks.

Even with the PoCo's that have more rules the local linemen is usually fine with me cutting the drop myself to save him a trip. If they couldn't get there to hook it back up I could reconnect it to but that is stretching the rules pretty far.

If it underground they usually take care of since they definitely don't want me in a transformer or up on their pole to disconnect it. Overhead stuff is pretty laid back though.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

That ***** for sure. Usually pretty quick around here. Enen the utilities that have more strict rules aren't you bad once you get to know the linemen.

Several of the REC's around here just tell you to do you thing and they'll have somebody throw a tag on it in the next couple weeks.

Even with the PoCo's that have more rules the local linemen is usually fine with me cutting the drop myself to save him a trip. If they couldn't get there to hook it back up I could reconnect it to but that is stretching the rules pretty far.

If it underground they usually take care of since they definitely don't want me in a transformer or up on their pole to disconnect it. Overhead stuff is pretty laid back though.

No way would they leave somebody without power overnight for something like this . They would get there even if it was late.

Cutting tags and drops out here will land a contractor in hot trouble.

And yeah ive heard many credible stories of PoCos leaving people sitting in the dark.

Ive seen it myself couple times.

My local PoCo is really good because they are customer owned.

Cant say the same for Pacific Gasp and extortion

 

[Jim greengo]

Cutting tags and drops out here will land a contractor in hot trouble.

And yeah ive heard many credible stories of PoCos leaving people sitting in the dark.

Ive seen it myself couple times.

My local PoCo is really good because they are customer owned.

Cant say the same for Pacific Gasp and extortion

We temp overhead drops back in all the time if power co cant get to it,I just call and let them know.

 

[Norcal]

We temp overhead drops back in all the time if power co cant get to it,I just call and let them know.

Some PoCo’s allow that but PG&E does not and I’ll bet SCE does not either.

 

[thammel]

I had my prior interior main panel replaced a few years back. Electrician I had came and cut the tag, pulled the meter and temporarily attached a trouble light so he could work. I'd marked every wire so we'd know what was what. Then the job was easy.

Tom

 

[theoldwizard1]

With underground, you would need PoCo to run new feeder conduit or be without power for at least a whole day depending on PoCo schedule.

I assume with an underground feed to a flush mount combination meter pan, load center box, the PoCo must disconnect the feed "upstream" and then re-connect, likely the next day. If I could easily remove the feed from the wall I would and install an external metal riser pipe and a surface mount box.

I'll bet the OPs quote did NOT include the PoCo service charges !

 

[ard]

I assume with an underground feed to a flush mount combination meter pan, load center box, the PoCo must disconnect the feed "upstream" and then re-connect, likely the next day. If I could easily remove the feed from the wall I would and install an external metal riser pipe and a surface mount box.

I'll bet the OPs quote did NOT include the PoCo service charges !

im not sure OP has a 'quote'.. he only referenced a 'going rate' of $2500.


Seems low for anywhere in CA. Even upper bumfuk, CA.

 

[99LeCouch]

Had our load center replaced last year as a part of a bigger project. $1800 or so for an inside surface mount right behind the can. Electrician came in, cut the tag, yanked the meter, and did his thing. Our subdivision has underground power, but nothing had to be done on the electric company end, at least as far as we knew.

 

[ptgarcia]

Only had an informal quote from my brother's friend. I don't even remember what it was because it was unrealistically low, like less than $1000. I'm not ready to move on this so I don't want to waste anybody's time on quotes, just thought I'd start a conversation here and see where it went.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[Aceman]

With this being a flush panel in stucco I might be temped to get the wall opened up a day ahead of time so there are no surprises. But that's just me and I've never been around an all in one that's flush in an exterior wall.

I almost always build a new service in the same spot as the old. I know a few guys that build the new one next to the old one and change it over a different day. I rather just do it all at once. If you move the panel then you have a bunch of wires to splice.

Same here, I've done service changes but have not done flush mounted in stucco.

I like the idea to remove the stucco next to the panel the day before, then after that it's just a typical panel change like anything else.