I really need some guidance from the Electrical pros

[my58]

I have a piece of equipment that utilizes a number of circuit breakers and has power supplies and other components that are needed for setup. In the past I would deliver the equipment and once it was placed then a local electrician would come and wire in a subpanel and then we would come back another time and mount the power supplies and connect everything else up, or we would talk others through the proper steps and each installation becomes a 1 off custom setup. It causes big delays because we need to coordinate lots more separate pieces that often get lost, it is a lot more time consuming wiring up the different pieces onsite with limited tools and often in the way of other people trying to work and do their job, and placement of components are never in the same spot so there is no consistency so months later if a problem arises it is a pain to talk or troubleshoot over the phone.

What I was wondering is could I purchase/build a "Power equipment box" Basically have a large cabinet that I have a local to me electrician mount a breaker box on, wire the outlets properly in or on the box, I then mount the power supplies and all the other peripherals properly and have everything connected. I could then have everything ready and connected consistently so when installing we could place the equipment, bolt this power box to the ground and all the local electrician onsite would need to do is to bring power from the main electrical room to this sub panel and energize it.

This setup would save so much time and frustration for everyone. Would something like this "power box" be legal and within code?

Where do I look to find the codes relating to this for California?

Is there such a thing as an electrical consultant I hire to figure this out with me or just hire a regular electrician.

All help and thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks

 

[raiderhillbilly]

I would think it would be allowed. Maybe the local city electric inspector could guide you. Architects sometimes have more knowledge than you would think. Electricians can be hit and miss, they don't usually want to stop and figure something out for a one time deal. They would rather have familiar/easy work.

 

[rlitman]

For consulting, and formal plans, you might want to speak to an electrical engineer.

As for what you're asking, yeah, it sounds feasable. So long as you can figure out where to place the new sub-panel that meets the requirements for panel placement.

I'm assuming you would provide the customer plans for the placement of your new power box, just as you would have plans for the placement of your equipment.

But if you're doing that, why couldn't you have plans/instructions you can provide to the local electrician to install a panel near your point of installation, detailing the circuits needed (and the placement for their receptacles), and space requirements for your equipment/power-supplies?

 

[redmondjp]

Check with your local electrical AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) first.

At two of the manufacturing plants I worked in (both of which were within different city limits), the local electrical inspector wanted a UL listing/label on every single electrical box in the entire building, including custom-made control wiring cabinets for any equipment. This meant that any electrical power or control boxes, if they weren't 1) factory supplied with the equipment (with UL listing from the factory), or 2) store-bought (and UL listed), had to be made in a UL-listed panel shop ($$$).

 

[rockwithjason]

what you are proposing is modifying your appliance to use a single source. you will need to have stamped EE drawings and possibly a UL listing on the appliance. Codes will matter less in this situation. you will need to provide the needed voltage, current, number of phases, overcurrent protective device size and temperature rating to the electricians. they will install according to the proper codes, usually NEC article 422 but depending on what exactly the appliance does you may need to observe addtional NEC articles

 

[theoldwizard1]

What I was wondering is could I purchase/build a "Power equipment box"

Basically, a power "breakout box". These were very common when computers were larger than you average side-by-side refrigerator/freezer. Typically the input would be a heavy gauge cord connected to a locking 3 phase plug (L21-20 or L21-30) or possibly a high current 120 locking plug (L5-20 or L5-30).

The local electrician only has to install 1 plug ! They can have simple "safety" features installed (like requiring both a ground and a neural on a 3 phase input) as well as a master breaker/power switch for the cabinet.

Thousands of these were installed in min-computers (DEC VAX) back in the 80s and 90s. There are several companies that will make you anything you want. (CRS - Can't Remember **** including the company names)

 

[Rookie2]

I would gather up some pictures of previous installations and pick the optimal location then get an electrical engineer to guide you in requirements. This is common with machine shops and small manufacturing equipment.

 

[tdkkart]

In most of our industrial machines, the panel you are talking about, containing all the circuit breakers, relays, PLC's computers and all the electrical distribution including the main power disconnect for the machine, is part of the machine.
Machine delivered, set into place, and a single power cord/drop is hooked to it.

 

[Stuart in MN]

You may be able to get a local panel shop or systems integrator to build what you need. I found this list of systems integrators in California, look through there and see if there's someone close by, and give them a call. If they can't/won't do it they may be able to give you a recommendation to someone who will. http://www.automation.com/suppliers...roviders-consultants/stateprovince/california

I don't know the rules in CA but in MN this sort of thing needs to be built by a firm that has UL508 certification, so that's something you may want to ask them when you call (basically it means their shop has been certified to build equipment that meets all the UL requirements for industrial control panels.)

 

[my58]

Thanks everyone for your great input. it is really appreciated!


Stuart in MN - Thank you so much for link. You Rock

theoldwizard1 - That is exactly what my desires come from. We used to have Vanilla or chocolate power conditioners that acted as the demarc for "mainframe/mini" computers. 1 connection by electrician and all our connections out of the box.

But if you're doing that, why couldn't you have plans/instructions you can provide to the local electrician to install a panel near your point of installation, detailing the circuits needed (and the placement for their receptacles), and space requirements for your equipment/power-supplies?

rlitman - That makes so much sense when it is said, however it never works out for some reason in real life. (at least for us) It seems every electrician or facilities mgmt. team interprets the plan their own unique way and believe there way is best. Also when they start plugging things in after the outlets are installed it never seems to fail, things are plugged in incorrectly. its one of those things that after you do it once or twice its really simple, but most electricians only see 1 of these so they don't have the benefit that we have of doing them over and over till you know it in your sleep.

Thanks again everyone for the help!

 

[sberry]

I like the input about the UL listing. There are a lot of details to a machine wire. A lot of stuff about wire sizing.