I Screwed Up My Epoxy

[DrewGzy]

First off thanks for all the info....

I hate to even admit what I did wrong, but regardless I am hoping to get some info:

I have a two car garage and did all the prep work for the epoxy. I went with Epoxy-Coat due to cost issues and they seemed to be fine for my application. I did the acid, filled the cracks, sanded, cleaned and waited for the crack filler to dry completely.

I did the epoxy this morning (about 4 hours ago). I did the epoxy in four sections and was supposed to use 2 quarts of the part "A" stuff (colored stuff), and 1 quart of the part "B" stuff (hardener or whatever) per section. The first two sections I did I used 2 quarts of "A" and only 1 pint of "B". So the mix was 4:1 instead of 2:1.

I realized it after I mixed up the final batch and already had the bad batches laid with the colored fleks thrown in. I finished the final section so that the floor is done, but I am guessing the first two sections will not cure.

So, now what should I do? I was thinking of using a spray bottle and spray some of the part "B" over the bad sections and hope for the best. I know it probably will not work because both parts have to mix and crosslink before being poured.

Should I let it sit for a few days and see what happens?

Should I scrape off the still wet **** today and just start over?

Any suggestions would be helpful. Once I get a chance I will post some pictures if anyone wants them.

Thanks again for any advice.

 

[WolverineCoatings]

It may get tack free but it will probably have a weak cohesive strength and bondstrength.

I was thinking of using a spray bottle and spray some of the part "B" over the bad sections and hope for the best. I know it probably will not work because both parts have to mix and crosslink before being poured.

NO! At best you might get some surface curing... SO, what you would have is something similar to a thin layer of ice on a pond. In other words, if the stuff in the pours of the concrete does not get hard you have no adhesion. So, just like you could lift the thin layer of ice off of the pond, you could lift the thin layer of cured material off of the un-cured material.

Can you tell us what products you purchased and how much you used per what amount of square footage?

 

[DrewGzy]

Can you tell us what products you purchased and how much you used per what amount of square footage?

I purchased a full kit from Epoxy Coat; just their basic medium grey kit. I can check their MSDS and tell you what it is, but I know on their website they state that it is "Cycloaliphatic 100% Solids Epoxy".

The kit is supposedly good for 500sf. I used the entire kit for 400sf trying to get a thicker coat. The section(s) that I screwed up on where 9' x 10' and I used 2 quarts of the colored stuff and 1 pint of the hardener.

I am assuming that I will have to peel / strip and redo this section of the floor. Should I start getting this **** up now or wait until it hardens some more. If I wait it will be six weeks before I can touch it again after this weekend.

Thanks again

 

[67 455 Bird ragtop]

I sort of had the same issue. Give it several DAYS and see if it hardens up. If not you may have to do what I did and clean up, the best you can, and re-coat/repair the areas that did not harden completely. Messy job. Look at the MSDS sheets to see what solvent might help with the clean up. Once I'm finished with my floor, hopefully this weekend, I'll post my experience with the product I used. Excellent product. Just a few mistakes on my part that caused me a few problems. But none were related to the product or their customer support which has been excellent since the first time I contacted them.

One thing is I did luck out and the areas that did not harden completely wer in areas that will see only foot traffic and not cars. So I doubt I'll have any long term issues.

 

[DrewGzy]

Glad to know I'm not the only one

It seems to be hardening up some but not near as well as the stuff that I did correctly. Aside from my screw-up I have been really happy with it and it has been fun.

I am not nearly as excited to strip the bad stuff off but I have already reordered a half kit and will make sure it is done right the next time.

 

[67 455 Bird ragtop]

It took some areas of my epoxy almost 3 days to set up. Nice and hard now. But other areas never did. And I've been kicking myself ever since. I just rushed it trying to get my floor done before some surgery I was about to have. I shoudl have slowed down and waited. I didn't have a good enough mixing rod for the thickness of this material. If I had mixed it in smalled batches I would have been much better off. Like they say. Live and learn...

As for you not being excited to strip any bad stuff off I hear ya. It's a messy job. But may need to be done. I knwo it HAD to be done in my situation.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out. I'm going slow with my repairs.

 

[c6 rocket]

Glad to know I'm not the only one

It seems to be hardening up some but not near as well as the stuff that I did correctly. Aside from my screw-up I have been really happy with it and it has been fun.

I am not nearly as excited to strip the bad stuff off but I have already reordered a half kit and will make sure it is done right the next time.

Been there, done that. I had the same problem and I have spent 5 days stripping off the old floor coating.

Have fun.

 

[67 455 Bird ragtop]

Been there, done that. I had the same problem and I have spent 5 days stripping off the old floor coating.

Have fun.

Sounds like we need to form our own club ... LOL

 

[c6 rocket]

I agree and good luck.

 

[WolverineCoatings]

DrewGzy,

If you want to call me tomorrow I'll try to help you.

www.wolverinecoatings.com (Eric)

Just curious... What kind of help are you getting from Epoxy-Coat? What are they saying?

 

[67 455 Bird ragtop]

Eric is a wealth of knowledge. Take him up on his offer...

 

[DrewGzy]

Been there, done that. I had the same problem and I have spent 5 days stripping off the old floor coating.

Have fun.

How did you end up stripping off the old stuff? Luckily it is only a smaller portion of the floor for me but I hope to get it stripped and cleaned up soon. I started playing with it and it is going to be a pain.

If you want to call me tomorrow I'll try to help you.

Eric, thank you for the offer. I will definitely give you a call. As far as Epoxy-Coat helping out; I actually have not talked to them. I assume that the only correct thing to do with all this is to clean up the bad sections and reapply the epoxy. It has been an expensive lesson, but I'm sure I will just have to clean and redo it.

 

[V-10 Killer]

DrewGzy, I'm truely sorry to hear about your situation.
But on a positive note, I must say it is VERY refreshing to see someone like yourself that can stand up in front of a group of people and say "I Screwed Up" and not blame the product, rant and whine and complain and threaten to bad PR a company to death if they don't fix it.

That tells me a lot about your character, and with that known, It's good to have you on the site

And good luck with the fix, way to keep positive.

 

[67 455 Bird ragtop]

How did you end up stripping off the old stuff? Luckily it is only a smaller portion of the floor for me but I hope to get it stripped and cleaned up soon. I started playing with it and it is going to be a pain.

Cleaning/stripping off the old soft epoxy will depend on it's composition. But first thing is to get a STIFF putty knife or scraper. Scrape up as much of the soft epoxy you can with the putty knife. You may find as you do this the knife will try and go under and lift the stuff that you thought was already hard. This is a good thing to find since that area had litle or no adhesion to the concrete.

Once you have all or majority of the soft epoxy up find out what solvent they recommend for cleanig purposes. Then use a rag or heavy mop and scrup the area until you have it all clean. More than likely you won't get 100% of the stuff up. But the activator in the new mixture may harden any small areas you missed. Plus the clear coat you put down over the top will give a little extra strength and protection to your repaired area.

Let us know how this comes out.

 

[DrewGzy]

I thank everyone for the help and support.

I will work on getting it scraped off today and see how that goes. I did scrape a small section yesterday and I don't think it will be as easy as to get off as I had originally thought.

I'm kind of surprised no one has asked how I did screw up. Hopefully someone else might see this and not do the same thing: I read a lot on these forums on the best way to do the epoxy. I opted to do the garage in four sections and went out and picked up two 2.5 quart mixing bucket and one 1 gallon bucket (also picked up some kitchen spatulas which was also beneficial). I used the smaller buckets to pour the separate components in and then I'd pour the two components into the larger bucket and from there I know I mixed them thoroughly.

The error that I made was with the smaller bucket with the "B" flavored epoxy. I would pour the stuff from the larger bucket into the smaller one and was watching the lines and marks from the inside of the bucket to get my 1 quart mark (so the lines and marks were backwards). I was looking at the 1pt mark which backwards looks similar to the 1qt mark that I should have poured to.

I don't know why I didn't catch it in the bigger bucket when I was mixing it and for some reason I only did the first two sections that way. I realized my error after starting to pour the last batch and had exactly 1 quart of the "B" stuff left over. The first two sections were much thinner when I was spreading them over the floor and it was apparent that something was not correct when I was laying it but being it was my first time I assumed everything was OK.

 

[Fuller]

Man, every floor guy's worst nightmare...

I was working with a new helper - he was mixing and I was rolling. He handed me a bucket of mixed product that just didn't look right to me so I asked him "did you mix the activator with this?" When his face turned pale I knew the answer. Luckily my floor guy spider sense kept me from pouring it on the floor.

I have had issues with not quite enough activator in the mix (sloppy mixing procedure) and then had to remove part of what I put down. Worst. Job. Ever. Bring lots of towels and plenty of xylene.

 

[WolverineCoatings]

DrewGzy, I'm truely sorry to hear about your situation.
But on a positive note, I must say it is VERY refreshing to see someone like yourself that can stand up in front of a group of people and say "I Screwed Up" and not blame the product, rant and whine and complain and threaten to bad PR a company to death if they don't fix it.

That tells me a lot about your character, and with that known, It's good to have you on the site

And good luck with the fix, way to keep positive.

SO true! Thanks for being honest!

 

[Jaguar Fan]

SO true! Thanks for being honest!

what he said.

Heck, if I lived near you, I'd come over to help with the removal. All the while I'd say to myself, it coulda been me....

 

[AlphaGarage]

It's pretty easy to mix up mixing ratios. I do it all the time in the kitchen, fortunately a messed up cake is pretty easy to remedy, just toss it out. A floor? Not that easy to fix.

A lot of companies sell their 2 part epoxies in containers that facilitate easy mixing. For example: The Wolverine Coatings epoxies that most of you will buy are 2 part, Part A is the Resin, Part B is the Hardener. The ratio is 2:1. That's 2 parts Resin and 1 part Hardener.

To keep the math and the mixing simple the epoxies are distributed in 3 quart kits, and in 3 gallon kits. It works like this:

Three Quart Kit
1. A one gallon can with 1/2 gallon of Resin - it's only half full
2. And a one quart can with one quart of Hardener - it's a full can
3. There is room the in Resin can to pour in all the Hardener and stir the mixture.

Three Gallon Kit
1. A three and half gallon pail with 2 gallons of Resin - it's not full
2. A gallon can with one gallon of Hardener - it's a full can
3. There is room the in Resin pail to pour in all the Hardener and stir the mixture.

So when it's time to mix you just need to pour the entire can of Hardener into the Resin container and mix away. It's an almost foolproof system.

"Almost" because sometimes you don't want to mix the entire 3 quarts or the entire 3 gallons at one time. In that case use a seperate mixing container and carefully mark off the fill lines before hand. Then check the markings and make certain you'll have a 2:1 ratio. Then check it again. Then take a few minutes, walk away, clear your head, and check it all yet again one more time. Then pour and mix.

To paraphrase a common woodworker's phrase: "Pre-measure twice, pour once."

 

[67 455 Bird ragtop]

Alpha - I have found working with 3 quart batches works best. The hardener mixes so much better in that amount. Or smaller amount if need be. Since most of us DYIers use a drill powered paint mixer it's tough to mix a full 3 gallon batch properly. That was my mistake. But now that I have started my repair work and am using 3 quart batches its going much smoother and the stuff is easier to mix completely. I hope to be completely finished with my floor wednesday night. Once done I'll be posting pics as well and all the "fun" I had doing the job.

And again I'll say it was totally my fault and not the product or instructions supplied with the product.

 

[AlphaGarage]

There's a lot to be said about a 3 qt kit. 3 gallons is a lot of mix, especially if you're doing it by yourself, even more so if it's your first time or you don't do it very often.

That's quite a bit of fluid to be combined - and the two parts really, really, need to be thoroughly mixed. It's not like blending a couple of latex paints to get a different color, the two epoxy parts are very different and the only way to get a good coating is if they're completely combined so that the chemical reaction can fully process.

And once it's completely mixed, 3 gallons can be a lot to apply during the pot life of the mix. For our body coat, LiquaTile 1184, we recommend that it be applied to a depth of 12 mils. So 3 gallons will be spread over 400 square feet (3 x 1600 / 12), that's quite a bit of surface to coat. Even more of a challenge if you need to cut in trim or other areas.

If you go with the 3 quarts at a time you get to break that down to 4 stages, each a more manageable 100 square feet. But it will take a bit more time.

If there's not too much trim work, and you've done some painting before, taking on 6 quarts at a time might be a good compromise.

This is like any other home improvement project, whether it's a large project like replacing a door & frame, or a smaller task like coating the garage floor, the improvement goes a lot smoother if you take a few minutes to plan things out beginning to end.

 

[WolverineCoatings]

It's pretty easy to mix up mixing ratios. I do it all the time in the kitchen, fortunately a messed up cake is pretty easy to remedy, just toss it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xxThzeoqzg

 

[DrewGzy]

Update

First off thanks to everyone for the support.

I started getting the old stuff off and it is more of a PIA than I thought. Scraping it was not working out as well as I had imagined and I really didn't find anything to help cut it with. I ended up using a torch and would heat up an area and then scrape it off. It was not pleasant but it got the job done. I only finished about 1/4 of what I need to get off and have since run out of time.

I am headed to India in the morning and will have to put the garage on hold until I get back (6 weeks out). Hopefully this stuff will not get any harder but at this point I'll just wait and see.

My plan is to burn / scrape the rest of this stuff off when I get back. use some Xylene (or Acetone) to scrub whatever else I can off and then re-sand this section of the floor and start all over again.

Thanks again for all the information and help. I will be on the board but sometimes our Internet is hit and miss so surfing is not always guaranteed.

 

[67 455 Bird ragtop]

CHeck with the manufacturer to see what they recommend as a solvent. The stuff I am using recommended MEK - Methyl Etheyl Keytone (sp?). Worked very well at cleaning up. Not the cheapest stuff in the world but did the job. I finished putting down the rest of the color I made my mistake on. It's amazing how things work when you mix it right ... LOL. Now I can tape off that area and put down my second color tonight or tomorrow. I'm still looking at putting the final clear coat on my floor wednesday night. Hope to be able to move some items from my old garage into the new garage over the weekend if all goes well.

Have a safe trip Drew. Let us know how this finally works out.