I think... this might... be it.

[TRC51]

So after many months of contemplating... constantly upgrading the size of the build I "need".... trying to decide if I need an attic space.... and figuring out if it takes up too much of my lawn (that was my wife's)... I think I have my final design. I am headed to submit the drawings to the building department soon. Wanted to know if anyone has any last suggestions. Pics below. Specs:

- 24 x 30
- 16 x 8 garage door
- 36" man door
- 6ft barn doors at the back
- 10ft ceiling (concluded the only lift I would/could ever utilize would be a small two post)
- 7/12 roof pitch with W Truss (allows me to walk through the trusses to just put excess stuff up there. That is all I want to do is store things and have some head room to do it.
- 2ft block knee wall

I am stressing out about the cost right now because I am over my original budget by about 3 - 4K... and that is just to build it. My plan is to have the full foundation (4ft down with footers) poured this year and build the garage itself next spring. The full foundation killed my budget, but the town required it for anything over 400sq.ft. I alread have a two car, but I decided that if I was going to build my shop, it was going to be the right way... so I ended up concluding that 20 x 20 would not be enough.

Not going to do radiant heat like I planned. I just don't spend every day in the garage in the winter, so I didn't think I would need it. It also would have added a significant up front cost because the town will not grant the CO without the building being insulated to R19 in the walls and R32 in the ceiling (also required 2 x 6 construction). I figure someday I would just figure something out for heat.

Garage door is all the way to the left because the garage is all the way to the left of the property. Having the door to the side like this allows me to have the drive as far left as possible.

Any last thoughts? I have no idea why, but I am actually nervous about making a major design mistake after getting the building permit.

Thanks in advance.

Travis

 

[brownbagg]

I have the short lift , 10 ft height is too short to lift a vehicle ,in the area of the lift go with a sissocer truss to put a V over the lift for more height, you really need 13 feet. I outgrew my 24 x30 in couple months

 

[rieferman]

I think it sounds like you've really thought this out very carefully and you should trust your plan (every time I go to the HD or Lowes, I tell myself "trust the plan, trust the list, only buy the stuff on the list" ha ha)

Seriously, as a second garage space, I think 24 x 30 will be a really nice space. The large garage door, you'll love it. That mower access on the back side - I have the exact same design and love it.

Side question, if you did pole barn style construction (which you could still have all those same amenities and finishes) would your township allow you to build on a slab instead of foundation walls?

 

[Ruiner]

From personal experience, a wider man door is MUCH better than a 36"...I think the one on my old shop was a 40" steel entry door, might have been larger...it made hauling stuff in and out easy without having to open the garage door all the time...

 

[MXtras]

Plan your work and work your plan. It's never failed me, and it definately looks like you have the planning thing down.

If you are already over budget before you have shoveled your first scoop of dirt, you had better back off on something or plan on some changes. Builds ALWAYS exceed even the best estimates.

Scott

 

[TRC51]

Side question, if you did pole barn style construction (which you could still have all those same amenities and finishes) would your township allow you to build on a slab instead of foundation walls?

Great question. I proposed it, actually. They said they would have no problem with it for post/beam... I have no idea why. That said, I called for some pricing on post and beam garages and they were in the 11K range for just the basics... and then I would have to pour the slab. I should be able to build this (stick build all myself, concrete by others) for about $12 - $13K, so I decide to go traditional stick build. This will also allow me to build in two stages and not have to finance it (which has become more important to me over the last couple of years).

As for the lift... it's really just a perk that I don't plan on having. If I did, I don't think I would have much of a problem sitting on a roller seat under it instead of standing under it. I don't get under my cars on a regular basis... so it really would be a huge huge perk to even buy one. That is why it lost so much priority.

Concerning the man door, I upgraded from the standard 32" to a 36" because I like having the added room as well. My only requirement was to be able to roll a motorcycle out that door... and that's not even a big deal with the garage door being so close. But, I just wanted to be able to in case the big door was blocked with a new camaro (hypothetically speaking). Anyway, anything over the 36" door would be out of the ordinary from my experience. Might be a ****** to track down and cost might be too high for something I don't think I need.

Thanks for the suggestions. More are welcome.

 

[TRC51]

If you are already over budget before you have shoveled your first scoop of dirt, you had better back off on something or plan on some changes. Builds ALWAYS exceed even the best estimates.

Scott

Thanks, Scott. Sound advice. I am actually over budget for the complete build to happen this summer. If I break it up into two stages (half now, half later), I can cover the stick built part next summer without much trouble. I will just have a nice rollerblade rink in my back yard for about 8 months... but at least the concrete will get a good cure before I put weight on it. Building permit allows me 1 year to build.

 

[kbs2244]

Don't put the big car door on the left.
You won't be able to open the drivers door and get out.

 

[ludlow]

Hey Travis,

I like your mock up. I was going to to that before I built mine, but never had the patience, hence the hand drawings I sent you. I see you decided to do the overhead door on the side, looks good.

One thing that I kind of regret not considering is using an 18' overhead door rather than a 16'. It would mean having to move your service door to the side, but the extra wide opening would be nice.

Bob

 

[TRC51]

Don't put the big car door on the left.
You won't be able to open the drivers door and get out.

Thought of that too. I back into my driveway everyday, but even so... since this is a second garage, the car parked in there will likely be backed in most of the time. If not, I will be driving it in where I want it... which is why I opted for the large/wide 16ft door. Believe it or not, this is really only going to be for one car (my summer car). The added space is needed because I am getting rid of a shed when this goes up (which you can see the new "shed" is designed into the garage), so I wanted to be sure I had enough room. In addition, this new garage will be holding the motorcycles, snowmobiles and 4-wheelers so that I can finally park my truck in my other two car.... maybe... if my wife will move over.

 

[TRC51]

Hey Travis,

I like your mock up. I was going to to that before I built mine, but never had the patience, hence the hand drawings I sent you. I see you decided to do the overhead door on the side, looks good.

One thing that I kind of regret not considering is using an 18' overhead door rather than a 16'. It would mean having to move your service door to the side, but the extra wide opening would be nice.

Bob

Hey Bob,

Thanks again for your drawings. I drew up my own set by hand as well based on yours. The intial review from the town was pretty good... just needed to add a couple things here and there. I wanted to get the smaller attic truss like yours, but it added something like $1K to the price of the trusses alone from my local guy. I saw the 7/12 W truss my brother had in his garage and realized that is all I needed. $750 for all 15 trusses.

As for the 18ft door, I don't know if I will need it. As I mentioned, this is really and oversized one car. Plus, this may sound stupid, but I like having the man door in the front because I don't need/have a walk on that side of the building. That side will also have all my tools/cabinets/benches on it, so one solid wall works better IMO. Great suggestion though... my other garage has a 17ft door and it's surprising how much difference that makes. In my mock up it looks tight with two cars side by side at the same time, but I don't think that will ever happen while I live at this house.

Awesome guys!.. keep them coming. I think I am going to try and get the ball rolling tomorrow.

 

[jumbo61]

I am stressing out about the cost right now because I am over my original budget by about 3 - 4K... and that is just to build it. My plan is to have the full foundation (4ft down with footers) poured this year and build the garage itself next spring. The full foundation killed my budget, but the town required it for anything over 400sq.ft.
Not going to do radiant heat like I planned. I just don't spend every day in the garage in the winter, so I didn't think I would need it. It also would have added a significant up front cost because the town will not grant the CO without the building being insulated to R19 in the walls and R32 in the ceiling (also required 2 x 6 construction). I figure someday I would just figure something out for heat.

Any last thoughts? I have no idea why, but I am actually nervous about making a major design mistake after getting the building permit.

Thanks in advance.

Travis

I'm going to assume we live in the same town (from your other thread). I was reading the building codes and it read like you don't need a full foundation if it is built with a frost protected shallow foundation. Meaning, basically foam insulation under the slab. I read it is used in new homes and saves on construction costs. I haven't approached the town with a plan yet. Just wondering if you heard of this?
Can't understand why you have to have all the insulation for inspection. It's not living space.

 

[ironroad 9c1]

do vaulted trusses and 10 foot ceilings just in case to do want a lift, you never know.

 

[TRC51]

I'm going to assume we live in the same town (from your other thread). I was reading the building codes and it read like you don't need a full foundation if it is built with a frost protected shallow foundation. Meaning, basically foam insulation under the slab. I read it is used in new homes and saves on construction costs. I haven't approached the town with a plan yet. Just wondering if you heard of this?
Can't understand why you have to have all the insulation for inspection. It's not living space.

I was told this by the town of Colonie building department. Anything you heat now has to be energy efficient. If it is going to be heated, it HAS to be 2 x 6 and insulated as I mentioned above. If I put in radiant heat, they know for sure that it will be heated, so it has to have the insulation in it before the will approve final inspection on the building permit. That would mean I can't use it.... which means my start up cost goes up. I wonder if you are building in the Albany area?

As for the foundation, they told me anything over 400sq.ft. needs the full foundation. However, I did find out that I can build on a slab over 400 if I have an engineer's stamp on the plans. Basically if the engineer will stamp your drawings, the engineer assumes responsibility for the building and they almost wash their hands of it. By the time I got the engineer involved, I assume the cost would almost offset the foundation... so I just went with it. When I asked if there was any way I could get around the foundation... outside of the stamp, there was nothing I could do.

Let me know if you find something different... probably too late for me, but I would definitely like to know if you could get away with an insulated slab.

Travis

 

[jumbo61]

I also live in Colonie. What height did they tell you the garage could be?
And from what do you measure? Floor or average grade?
I'm interested in the pole barn type too. Did they tell you the posts could be buried in the ground or must be above?
Thanks in advance.
Tony

 

[TRC51]

I also live in Colonie. What height did they tell you the garage could be?
And from what do you measure? Floor or average grade?
I'm interested in the pole barn type too. Did they tell you the posts could be buried in the ground or must be above?
Thanks in advance.
Tony

Height will depend on your set backs from the property line. If the building is detached from the house (which I assume yours will be as well), the typical setbacks will be 5ft from each property line. However, if your building exceeds 16ft peak height (from ground level/average grade), the setback from the back property line will then have to be 35ft. Mine is 18ft high, but I am going to try and get a variance from the town to allow me to use the standard 5ft setbacks. One other requirement is that the detached building must be at least 10ft away from your house.

I was actually looking at post and beam, which posts would have to be burried. But the cost would have been more (I believe) after I added in the cost of the concrete slab. Not sure what their requirements are for pole barns.

 

[mikeyr]

I have the short lift , 10 ft height is too short to lift a vehicle ,in the area of the lift go with a sissocer truss to put a V over the lift for more height, you really need 13 feet. I outgrew my 24 x30 in couple months

That really depends on the cars you have, I have a 8ft. ceiling and store one car on the lift and drive the other under it. If I want to work on the car on the lift, I have a old office chair with casters, quite a comfy way to work under the car.

The only time the 8ft. ceiling was really a problem was when i pulled the gearbox on one car, it would have been nice to stand up when lifting the gearbox but gearboxes are pretty reliable, wont have to do that again.

New garage has scissor trusses so I have more height.

 

[TRC51]

That really depends on the cars you have, I have a 8ft. ceiling and store one car on the lift and drive the other under it. If I want to work on the car on the lift, I have a old office chair with casters, quite a comfy way to work under the car.

The only time the 8ft. ceiling was really a problem was when i pulled the gearbox on one car, it would have been nice to stand up when lifting the gearbox but gearboxes are pretty reliable, wont have to do that again.

New garage has scissor trusses so I have more height.

I agree. I don't HAVE to stand for the work I will be doing. I have a rolling craftsman seat and an old office chair I can use. In addition, I am just not under the cars all that much (mostly oil changes and inspection. If I ever do have to change out a ****** (which I hope to never do again), I will just **** it up and be under it. It will still be better than using jack stands.

As I mentioned, in my particular case I don't think it will matter because the lift is a long way off... at best.

 

[TRC51]

BTW, I am using the 7/12 trusses for storage over my garage... mostly just for stuff like leftover materials, wood and odds and ends you don't want lying around. If I scissor truss, I lose all that space upstairs and starting losing floor space... or the garage will look cluttered. However, if the town declines my variance for 18ft, I probably will redesign with a scissor truss to keep or increase the ceiling height while still maintaining a 16ft maximum peak. Then loft a back portion of the garage.

 

[brownbagg]

just put scissor lift over the half where the car lift is, use reqular trusses every where else. you lose only a 1/4 of the storage

 

[gsport]

i know in calif if you call it a barn and not a garage the planning is all different.. just a thought

 

[TRC51]

just put scissor lift over the half where the car lift is, use reqular trusses every where else. you lose only a 1/4 of the storage

Expensive truss and would also have to be stamped by an engineer. Another member who did something like that sent me his drawings. I was headed there, but decided to just increase my wall heights. The cost of the truss and engineer stamp was the real stopping factor. Truss price more than doubled.

 

[brownbagg]

all trusses got to be stamp. they do it in house. Trusses are really cheap even with the stamp. Just tell them what you want, computer spits out the design, and you are done.

 

[TRC51]

i know in calif if you call it a barn and not a garage the planning is all different.. just a thought

Unfortunately not in our town. The peak heights and setbacks remain the same no matter what the building. An 8 x 8 shed would have the same requirements of a 30 x 48 stick built garage if you keep the peak height below 16ft....and at least 10ft away from the house.

 

[TRC51]

all trusses got to be stamp. they do it in house. Trusses are really cheap even with the stamp. Just tell them what you want, computer spits out the design, and you are done.

Even so, I priced them. $1,900 and that was when my garage was only 24 x 24. I have since switched to a standard 7/12 truss at 24 x 30 and am getting them all for $800.

Basically I was paying for an attic truss without having the attic.

 

[TRC51]

Real quick, I appreciate all your input. I don't want it to sound like I don't. I know that I drove myself and a lot of other people crazy trying to accomodate everything. As I mentioned previosly... the lumber yard hates to see me coming because I have made so many changes to the quotes I have requested. But.. I want to get it right.

 

[mikeyr]

and you better get it right the first time ! so take your time and ask away !

This is not a job where you can do it right the second or third time, you only get one shot unless you have a brand new checkbook with dollars to back up the checks.

 

[TRC51]

I am in business!!

The town just called and my permit went through! I can pick it up any time! I am going to be excited right up to the point I starting hemorrhaging cash. Probably then too. Now all I have to do is find a contractor to build this darn foundation. I can't get anyone to call me back.

 

[dipper]

congrats!! now start building

Now just make sure you do your homework and get the right guy in there to do the foundation/flatwork.
I went thru similar deal with my town, if the garage was going to be heated then it had to be minimum R19 walls, underslab insulation, R50 ceiling. Crazy so I said, nope not gonna heat it.
Installed a gas line and mr heater after the final was done. It's insulated and heats up just fine.