Icon Ratchets?

[mudflap]

I bought one during the 40% off sale. I think it was about $30.00 out the door. I doubt if i will ever use it because im really loving my Carlyle CHTR38NLF . First impressions are..very nice packaging. Smoothness, backdrag, backlash, fit/finish is as nice as any of my SO ratchets. The comfort grip is a little thinner, but i like that. Will it hold up under daily use in a professional environment..? I have no idea. But at that price..its worth a shot. Might give it to one of the kids at the shop to see how long it takes them to break it...

 

[Tundra1]

One of my icon 1/4" ratchets that I got on a recent sale has developed a problem that I've never run into before. As I'm running in a faster it will arbitrarily reverse the ratchet direction and start pulling it out. Not consistent, but definitely does it enough to make it unusable.
Will either open it up and see if I can get an idea of the flaw or just warranty it...

 

[TheToolEnthusiast]

^Just warranty it

 

[sightbike]

Curious if jump to Icon is worth the price increase over the Pittsburg ratchets. Understand there’s a tooth count difference and consider negligible. Seems a 30-40% cost jump to the Icon. Ballpark percentages based on quick math comparing on website.

 

[TheToolEnthusiast]

The Icon long handle 3/8 feels better in hand over the Pittsburgh if you’re using it everyday. If you’re just doing some weekend warrior stuff the price is probably not worth it.

 

[FunkyYota]

The half inch long flex head had a pretty floppy head. Easily fixed with a hammer to tighten up the fork. The ratcheting action is not as nice as a tool truck ratchet, but for what I use a half inch for it’s fine.

 

[bkdc]

Maybe they are clearing inventory in anticipation of the G2 ratchets. I noticed a lot of the ICON ratchets were sold out at several local HF’s.

HF‘s ICON marketing targets Snap-on, and that is an unfair comparison usually. But the G2 ratchets are going for the jugular with a clone of Snap-On’s double 80 dual pawl design. And with a locking flex option. With improved harder steel alloy on the anvil. I can only guess that Snap-on’s patent on the double 80 has expired. If this ratchet performs without hiccups and is priced appropriately, my only concern would be for the durability/functionality at the flex joint.

 

[bkdc]

One of my icon 1/4" ratchets that I got on a recent sale has developed a problem that I've never run into before. As I'm running in a faster it will arbitrarily reverse the ratchet direction and start pulling it out. Not consistent, but definitely does it enough to make it unusable.
Will either open it up and see if I can get an idea of the flaw or just warranty it...

This is a known problem. Open the ratchet, clean out the old lube and use oil instead of grease. Superlube multi-purpose oil is my favorite.

 

[AJHD]

Maybe they are clearing inventory in anticipation of the G2 ratchets. I noticed a lot of the ICON ratchets were sold out at several local HF’s.

I don't follow any of the HF social media or any of the SEMA stuff either.

Anyone know if they gave any indication as to when the new ratchets would be released? I'm curious to see them.

 

[PMD1966]

Never knew ratchets could be so complicated. Still have the 3/8 drive S-K that I bought 60 years ago. I have used it, both of my sons have used it, and my grandsons are using it.

 

[FigN⋅m]

Never knew ratchets could be so complicated. Still have the 3/8 drive S-K that I bought 60 years ago. I have used it, both of my sons have used it, and my grandsons are using it.

Cool - I'm still driving my Great-Great-Grandfather's Model T!

Can't stop the steady march of progress. If something comes about, fantastic. We all potentially benefit.
If someone wants to rock whatever's been working for them forever, that's also super. BOTH have merit.

 

[bkdc]

Never knew ratchets could be so complicated. Still have the 3/8 drive S-K that I bought 60 years ago. I have used it, both of my sons have used it, and my grandsons are using it.

Try a 72 tooth Koken Z-series (Z-EAL) ratchet to see what different technology offers. The Snap-on dual 80 technology is 20 years old tried and true but using a Snap-on doesn’t bring me smiles like using a Koken.

If Snap-on doesn’t continue to innovate, it will not survive. It is relying on old reputation and competitors have quickly caught up. The Tool Truck has plenty of alternative business models in the age of internet commerce.

I love hand tools. They last forever.

 

[Buckeye93]

This is a known problem. Open the ratchet, clean out the old lube and use oil instead of grease. Superlube multi-purpose oil is my favorite.

I agree with you about opening the ratchet and oiling. That’s what I do. But I saw on internet a guy who said he just soaks the head in transmission fluid every once in awhile. And then no need to open it and oil it. What thoughts do you all have about that idea?

 

[four.cycle]

What thoughts do you all have about that idea?

Somewhere on this website you will find a post talking about the entire crew in a shop dropping their ratchets into a bucket of oil at the end of their shift, coming back in the morning, pulling their ratchet out of the bucket, wiping the oil off, and going to work.
"Soaking" in oil or automatic transmission fluid is the only way to lubricate some older "sealed head" models, like the early "Duro/Indestro "pressed flange" model.

 

[M635_Guy]

Try a 72 tooth Koken Z-series (Z-EAL) ratchet to see what different technology offers. The Snap-on dual 80 technology is 20 years old tried and true but using a Snap-on doesn’t bring me smiles like using a Koken.

Agree - the Ko-ken Z series is pretty great.

If Snap-on doesn’t continue to innovate, it will not survive. It is relying on old reputation and competitors have quickly caught up. The Tool Truck has plenty of alternative business models in the age of internet commerce.

Lucky for them most of their profit and a large part of their revenue come from corporate and government sales.

 

[AEAdam]

I agree with you about opening the ratchet and oiling. That’s what I do. But I saw on internet a guy who said he just soaks the head in transmission fluid every once in awhile. And then no need to open it and oil it. What thoughts do you all have about that idea?

Really bad idea.

Mechanical systems use specific lubricants for very specific reasons. Transmission fluid is a very low viscosity lubricant used to flow thru narrow passages and work as a viscous coupling.

In a non pressurized ratchet head, ATF will creep out dragging any remnants of grease with it, leaving grit or dirt behind.

ATF is very liable to accelerate wear in a ratchet and degrade it’s performance in the short term.

Ratchets really need 2 different lubricants: A light oil film on the gears, and a grease film between moving parts (under and on top of the gear).

Excessive grease or too heavy a grease on fine toothed ratchets’ teeth will actually weaken them and accelerate wear. The grease goes into the body and on top of the gear before you put the backplate on. Gear teeth should be clean and lightly oiled. A super thin film of NLGI 1 is okay. NLGI2 is probably too thick.

 

[AEAdam]

Somewhere on this website you will find a post talking about the entire crew in a shop dropping their ratchets into a bucket of oil at the end of their shift, coming back in the morning, pulling their ratchet out of the bucket, wiping the oil off, and going to work.
"Soaking" in oil or automatic transmission fluid is the only way to lubricate some older "sealed head" models, like the early "Duro/Indestro "pressed flange" model.

I think I remember that post. Didn’t those mechanics use their ratchets primarily as hammers?

Pretty sure any tool called “indestro” “indestructible” is taunting their owners to misuse them. Really not the workers’ faults.
I was once challenged by a tool stamped “unbreakable” once. It’s a gauntlet thrown. Challenge accepted.

 

[four.cycle]

I think I remember that post. Didn’t those mechanics use their ratchets primarily as hammers?

Pretty sure any tool called “indestro” “indestructible” is taunting their owners to misuse them. Really not the workers’ faults.
I was once challenged by a tool stamped “unbreakable” once. It’s a gauntlet thrown. Challenge accepted.

Any tool can be a hammer. I've driven nails home with the **** end of screwdriver handles. All depends on how many rungs up the ladder you are, and how far away the tool box is.

I'm not exactly sure where the name "Indestro" came from - the original name of the company was "The Sure Seal Bottle Capper Company", whose lead item was their "indestructible" bottle capper.

I think one would be hard pressed to "break" one of those old pressed-flange models. I suppose with a long enough piece of 2-inch steel pipe on it as a cheater, one might be able, but they're pretty sturdy - you don't see a whole lot of 90-year-old ratchets still very much quite usable. You really don't know until you've held one in your hands. They're all over ebay - you can get them pretty cheap: model 3202 or 3202R - just be sure to get one with the drive coupler so you can actually use it.

 

[Steve_P]

If Snap-on doesn’t continue to innovate, it will not survive. It is relying on old reputation and competitors have quickly caught up. The Tool Truck has plenty of alternative business models in the age of internet commerce.

I'm not a huge SO fan, but people have been saying that the internet was going to kill SO for 20 years; and it hasn't. Yes, in reality, the internet should've really hurt SO 10+ years ago, but SO just keeps chugging along with their dealer service, free financing, and warranty replacements; all while increasing corporate earnings pretty much every year. And this is while everyone says they're using an outdated business model (they are) and should be dying a slow death (they're not).

I'm guessing you'd have to go to 100+ auto repair shops/dealerships in the US to find a Koken ratchet- the reality is that their selection ***** in comparison to SO, Matco, GW, and now, or soon to be, Icon. Outside of GJ, the US boutique brands like Koken, PB Swiss, Hazet... aren't used commercially in the US at any substantial level.

 

[dnschmidt]

Really bad idea.

Mechanical systems use specific lubricants for very specific reasons. Transmission fluid is a very low viscosity lubricant used to flow thru narrow passages and work as a viscous coupling.

In a non pressurized ratchet head, ATF will creep out dragging any remnants of grease with it, leaving grit or dirt behind.

ATF is very liable to accelerate wear in a ratchet and degrade it’s performance in the short term.

Ratchets really need 2 different lubricants: A light oil film on the gears, and a grease film between moving parts (under and on top of the gear).

Excessive grease or too heavy a grease on fine toothed ratchets’ teeth will actually weaken them and accelerate wear. The grease goes into the body and on top of the gear before you put the backplate on. Gear teeth should be clean and lightly oiled. A super thin film of NLGI 1 is okay. NLGI2 is probably too thick.

I've used ATF for decades. ATF is one of the most advanced lubricants on Earth. More research has gone into ATF than into motor oil. In order to do what it does in a transmission it has to be very highly engineered. It's very low viscosity enables it to get everywhere on the internals of a ratchet. It flat out works.

Perhaps the best lubricant would be John Deere Corn Head Grease as it's very thin NLGI 00 and thixotropic meaning that it changes viscosity with shear. I've used this in my angle grinders and polishers for many years and it works far better than any normal grease as typically all normal grease does is fling onto the perimeter of the gear case without ever seeing the actual gears ever again. You can literally hear how much quieter angle grinders are using Corn Head Grease compared to the stuff that they ship them with from the factory.

 

[BrandonV]

I'm not a huge SO fan, but people have been saying that the internet was going to kill SO for 20 years; and it hasn't. Yes, in reality, the internet should've really hurt SO 10+ years ago, but SO just keeps chugging along with their dealer service, free financing, and warranty replacements; all while increasing corporate earnings pretty much every year. And this is while everyone says they're using an outdated business model (they are) and should be dying a slow death (they're not).

Until they're sending out Harbor Freight drones to warranty tools the same day, the presence of the truck will keep those companies afloat.

 

[AEAdam]

I've used ATF for decades. ATF is one of the most advanced lubricants on Earth. More research has gone into ATF than into motor oil. In order to do what it does in a transmission it has to be very highly engineered. It's very low viscosity enables it to get everywhere on the internals of a ratchet. It flat out works.

Perhaps the best lubricant would be John Deere Corn Head Grease as it's very thin NLGI 00 and thixotropic meaning that it changes viscosity with shear. I've used this in my angle grinders and polishers for many years and it works far better than any normal grease as typically all normal grease does is fling onto the perimeter of the gear case without ever seeing the actual gears ever again. You can literally hear how much quieter angle grinders are using Corn Head Grease compared to the stuff that they ship them with from the factory.

Somewhere there is a spot on the internet called something like “grease journal.com”. There are likely people there anxious to share their extensive research on greases and lubricants and want desperately to challenge your sense of ”the best lubricant”, which they regard as grease blasphemy.

Point is, oils and greases are really complicated. ATF is amazing for what it was designed for. Mobil 1 is pretty amazing and modern. Superlube was designed for food industry machinery. There is no ”best” in lubrication.

Thinsotropic and thixotropic sound made up, but are real terms (I use daily) and only mean “having a thin (or thick) form or shape”. Substances that change viscosity with shear are typically called “pseudoplastic“, but all greases have shear strengths that can be exceeded leading to a break down of the greases‘ lubricating properties, if that’s what you meant.

We’ve probably discussed this before. I went thru a personal quest to consolidate my stock of greases. I looked at 4 ball test data, temperatures etc. Mobil 1 is pretty amazing and I’ve switched to that for all NLGI2 uses.

For ratchets, it’s tough to beat the properties and convenience of NLGI 1 Super Lube. I wouldn’t dare mention it on greasejournal.com, but I suspect any decent NLGI 1 lithium grease would do just as well (Example: Mobil EP-1 ) The key is to use it correctly. Never pack the gear teeth with grease.

 

[dnschmidt]

From Goggle: thixotropy is a time-dependent shear thinning property where a fluid's viscosity changes over time under constant shear stress. It's a reversible process, meaning the fluid's viscosity can return to its original state if the stress is removed. Essentially, thixotropic fluids become less viscous when stirred or shaken, but return to their original, thicker state when left undisturbed. When Corn Head Grease is in the gearcase doing nothing it's a thin solid like any other grease. When it's under use it turns liquid and because of that keeps lubricating the gears like gear oil does your differential. If you open up any angle grinder from the factory what you will see is all of the factory grease is against the walls of the gear case and damn near none of it on the gears themselves. That's the beauty of Corn Head Grease for angle grinders and polishers. It gets on the gears and stays there.

 

[AEAdam]

Sounds like we are using Thixotropic wrong at work. But the definition in Google reflects all greases I know of and tooth paste etc etc. That property is not unique to Corn head grease.

I’m looking at the spec sheets and Corn Head Grease. Looks like good stuff. Maybe better than Mobilux EP-0, which is comparable:

4 ball weld (They stack one ball bearing on top of three and apply pressure until they get metal to metal contact)
Corn head grease = 400kg
Mobilux= 250
Superlube = 400
Lubriplate =320

If you look at viscosity at 40C:
Corn head grease =170
Mobilux = 160 (similar)
Super Lube = 69 (much lower)
Lubriplate= 237

At 100C
Corn head grease =?? (guessing similar to Mobilux)
Mobilux = 14
Super Lube = 8
Lubriplate = 19

You can get a sense for the advantage of synthetic grease in our ratchets. The viscosity varies much less with temperature. Read: higher viscosities mean higher back drag.

The other undiscussed advantage of Superlube is its compatibility with most all rubbers/synthetic elastomers used in sealed ratchets.

Corn head grease looks to be an excellent grease with a similar viscosity to Mobil, but with higher pressure capability. But in terms of a good choice for one application or another, the decision might come down to price and availability. Greases get loyal followings, sometimes undeservedly (Ex. Lubriplate, which is a somewhat outdated lithium grease imho)

Looking at just a brief sample of greases, looks like corn head grease and Mobilux would both lose to Superlube in a ratchet application due to Superlubes high strength, and low viscosity. No surprise this is the grease Snap On recommends and ships with rebuild kits.

 

[BrandonV]

For ratchets, it’s tough to beat the properties and convenience of NLGI 1 Super Lube.

I never understood the desire to challenge Snap-on's recommendation for Super Lube.

I'm guessing they're in the business of trying to not replace something under warranty. If it works for them it works for me.

 

[spyerx]

This thread has turned into https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/

 

[AEAdam]

This thread has turned into https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/

Didn't know this existed but not at all surprised! When you think of all the **** on the internet, this kind of stuff (and our kind of stuff) gives me hope for the future.

I found a newsgroup all about flashlights once. I successfully escaped from its swirling vortex and lived to tell the tale!

 

[mreisner]

Snap-on is shipping a different viscosity Grease with the latest version of the F100 rebuild kits. It definitely makes a difference. Years ago Mane and tail shampoo and bag balm got almost cult followings on the internet as beauty products, both which have been around the farm for decades if not almost a century. I see a bunch of so-called organic composted fertilizers available at garden centers. If the secret of manure gets out like the shampoo and the balm there's just going to be no telling what those farmers can influence yet. If the corn head Grease info gets out to the average consumer watch out! We're really screwed if the rest of the world figures out that we have 53.8% glypgosate instead of that 1% stuff that you can buy at Home Depot!
All kidding aside, corn head grease is pretty amazing it has solved a lot of problems especially in lawn mower gearboxes and things like that.

 

[Ohio Andy]

Snap-on is shipping a different viscosity Grease with the latest version of the F100 rebuild kits. It definitely makes a difference. Years ago Mane and tail shampoo and bag balm got almost cult followings on the internet as beauty products, both which have been around the farm for decades if not almost a century. I see a bunch of so-called organic composted fertilizers available at garden centers. If the secret of manure gets out like the shampoo and the balm there's just going to be no telling what those farmers can influence yet. If the corn head Grease info gets out to the average consumer watch out! We're really screwed if the rest of the world figures out that we have 53.8% glypgosate instead of that 1% stuff that you can buy at Home Depot!
All kidding aside, corn head grease is pretty amazing it has solved a lot of problems especially in lawn mower gearboxes and things like that.

What is this new mystery grease coming out with the new f-100s

 

[mreisner]

What is this new mystery grease coming out with the new f-100s

Just a little thinner viscosity Super Lube. It does make a big difference however.

 

[Ohio Andy]

Just a little thinner viscosity Super Lube. It does make a big difference however.

Been afraid to try the new 100 ratchets...

 

[mreisner]

Been afraid to try the new 100 ratchets...

With the updated kit and the new lubrication specification they are what they should have been in the first place. Thinner head and low Back Drag. It feels a little bit different because they're hundred tooth compared to 80, but after mine getting the updates and breaking in they are I believe as low Back Drag as The Dual 80. I am very happy with the ones I have now, great access and the lower Arc swing does help in places.

 

[Ohio Andy]

With the updated kit and the new lubrication specification they are what they should have been in the first place. Thinner head and low Back Drag. It feels a little bit different because they're hundred tooth compared to 80, but after mine getting the updates and breaking in they are I believe as low Back Drag as The Dual 80. I am very happy with the ones I have now, great access and the lower Arc swing does help in places.

Thanks I might give one a try.

Really appreciate the response

 

[bkdc]

Just a little thinner viscosity Super Lube. It does make a big difference however.

I thought the standard Snap-on SuperLube was NGLI 00. 00 means apple sauce consistency. The standard SuperLube multi-purpose grease is NGLI 2 (peanut butter consistency). NGLI 2 seems to work just fine on my dual-80 snap ons as long as I don’t overuse it. I added NGLI 00 (a small amount) to the ICON G2 and it seems to feel better. The ICON G2 comes with oil only from the factory. I made the mistake of adding too much grease initially and it started binding.

SuperLube does make a NGLI 000 grease (almost cooking oil thick, oil) which I rarely ever see. At that point, I would consider using rear-differential 75w-90 fluid as long as there were no issues with seals.