Icon Sockets: Yes or No?

[Andres26tnt]

No brainer here. At this point in human evolution a workable socket is within any developing country's wheelhouse. Taiwan is far beyond a developing country as every high end semiconductor in the world comes out of that island. It's pretty damn hard to find any sockets that **** anymore and furthermore when did Justin Dow become a metallurgist. Did he test them with a Rockwell tester or did he just "feel" that they were softer. Anybody can "feel" anything, show me the data. Additionally, NOBODY (and that includes Snap-On as you've got to wait for the truck to show up, has a better warrantee than Harbor Freight.

Haven't seen that dude on YouTube for a while. Last he got some big *** neck tattoo, but wanted a police officer job. He was ok before all the ranting and sad stuff he posted.

 

[seber]

Square drive weak point or shear plane will be on the male part (ratchet anvil) and not the female part (socket).

As for the rest of the socket the unbroached section is the strongest and has the best rigidity. With the broached section being the weakest and flexes the most, which is also why cracks tend to happen here.

In theory sockets with a shallow broached area are stronger than sockets with a deep/full broached area.

This is going to sound counter intuitive but the full broach socket will be the one that takes more torque to break. The reason is stress concentration. A shallow broach puts all the stress at the end of the hex broach. A longer broach will spread that stress along the entire depth of the broached area, slightly reducing the stress at the end of that cut. I'm not going to run the numbers but I would guess the difference will be vanishingly small, on the order of one percent or less.

 

[DAWrench]

I think most people will be happy with the Icon sockets. I have the mid length 3/8 metric and have no complaints. If they had a 1/4 mid length set I would buy them for sure. Icon sockets .are a good deal at regular price and 40% off would be a great deal.

 

[Hohn]

This is going to sound counter intuitive but the full broach socket will be the one that takes more torque to break. The reason is stress concentration. A shallow broach puts all the stress at the end of the hex broach. A longer broach will spread that stress along the entire depth of the broached area, slightly reducing the stress at the end of that cut. I'm not going to run the numbers but I would guess the difference will be vanishingly small, on the order of one percent or less.

In essence, the shorter broach depth being stiffer will more effectively transmit stress to the concentration area at the bottom of the broach where it transitions to thick wall? I think I agree with your take.

But it's moot for proportions of square drive to hex size. I don't know where the proportion is when the square drive ceases to be the weak link, but it's probably on the order of a 8mm 1/2" drive or maybe a 10mm 3/4"?

 

[merkyworks]

This is going to sound counter intuitive but the full broach socket will be the one that takes more torque to break. The reason is stress concentration. A shallow broach puts all the stress at the end of the hex broach. A longer broach will spread that stress along the entire depth of the broached area, slightly reducing the stress at the end of that cut. I'm not going to run the numbers but I would guess the difference will be vanishingly small, on the order of one percent or less.

Guess I figured full broach flex would create the higher stress riser than the shallow broach, but I see what you are saying.

Only cracked socket I have ever had was a craftsman full broach 18mm 3/8" drive.

 

[ecotec]

I don’t have a lot of ICON sockets… I just have a set of 3/8” semi-deeps, a set of deep E-Torx, and a set of metric ball hex. They have all held up very well so far.

At this point, you know that I like to hunt for the fancier (truck and industrial) brands at garage/estate sales, flea markets…

The ICON semi-deeps make great place holders. At 40% off ($24), I don’t know how you can lose. Do this, and you have all the time in the world to hunt garage/estate sales for cheap high end brands. Semi-deeps are the hardest ones to find, too. The only metric semi-deeps, that I have found so far, have engravings on them… which I hate.

Before Covid, I would have suggested Carlyle Real Deals for semi-deeps. They just aren’t offering sale pricing as good as they did then.

 

[M635_Guy]

I own a lot of 3/8" chrome socket sets, including both Snap On and Icon. Along with my Tekton set (which has the broadest size range of the three), they get used frequently. The only difference I can tell between the Icon and Snap On is the SO is very slightly less sloppy on the anvil, but it's only obvious if you're checking for it. In use, they're both great. The only ding I have for Tekton is they're very long for a shallow set - I essentially use them as a mid-length set, and the shallowness of the Icon/SO set (which starts around 14mm and down) has been extremely handy in some tight spots.

Among others, I also have MiUSA SK (which are beefy, but a little longer), MiC SK (which are fine, and have a really nice rail, but not better than the Icon for me) and both regular and Z-series Ko-ken sets. The Ko-ken are really impressive. If you make me pick from everything, I'd take the Ko-ken Z series.

I'm 100% happy with my Icon chrome sockets, and would recommend them. I don't think there are many mistakes to be made these days with impact sockets.

At the 40% off price, it's hard to go wrong IMHO. That said, I wouldn't buy anything you don't need just because it's on sale (which is why I'm not going to get a mid-length set...probably).

 

[merkyworks]

To the OP question I think at 40% off sockets everything from Icon, Quinn and even Pittsburgh is a good buy if you need it.

 

[ecotec]

If they came out with 1/2” and 1/4” chrome semi-deeps, I would buy them right away.

I would suggest that they look at researching semi-deep impacts in 1/4”, 3/8”, and 1/2”. I bet that they would sell very well.

I don’t have any plans to buy any of the sets, even at 40% off, I just don’t need any.

 

[emeraldcoupe]

for 40% off i'd pick up the mid length sets

 

[danski0224]

A solid maybe.

 

[dwighty390]

This is going to sound counter intuitive but the full broach socket will be the one that takes more torque to break. The reason is stress concentration. A shallow broach puts all the stress at the end of the hex broach. A longer broach will spread that stress along the entire depth of the broached area, slightly reducing the stress at the end of that cut. I'm not going to run the numbers but I would guess the difference will be vanishingly small, on the order of one percent or less.

Can you do anything to help me visualize that? I'm having trouble seeing how either or would be of any benefit at the tip of the socket.

 

[wantedabiggergarage]

I would suggest that they look at researching semi-deep impacts in 1/4”, 3/8”, and 1/2”. I bet that they would sell very well.

That is what short impact sockets have become with Nano sockets now.

 

[AEAdam]

Ahead of the 40% off sale on August 11th, I am wondering what the consensus here is on Icon sockets…? I have seen video from Justin Dow suggesting the metal is too soft.

I am a DIYer but want top quality tools and I am looking to get something better than the Husky set I have.

Do I take advantage of the Icon sale or do I go Snap-On, Tekton, GearWrench, or some other brand?

I really like my Snap On tools. They are very nice to use. But honestly, if you were my son, I’d recommend Icon sockets. If car wrenching becomes your passion, you can swap out sets later. Buy Snap On on eBay in like new condition for 50% off. Nothing wrong with having duplicates. And no way I’d duplicate everything, deeps for example.

Forget discussions of warranty, broach depth, and pick up a set of icon impacts while you are there.

Pay attention to the tools that we don’t talk about often enough. For example, I think I wouldn’t risk it with Icon bit sockets. I’d choose Snap On for that. I’d buy Snap On ratchets, and wrenches if I could afford them. I like my Snap on screwdrivers.

Full disclosure almost all my hand tools are Snap on and I have a very complete set of tools. I own no Icon tools and personally will never buy Icon because I don’t like their business practices. But I recognize they are a good fit for people in certain circumstances.

 

[Silver Lexus]

I really like my Snap On tools. They are very nice to use. But honestly, if you were my son, I’d recommend Icon sockets. If car wrenching becomes your passion, you can swap out sets later. Buy Snap On on eBay in like new condition for 50% off. Nothing wrong with having duplicates. And no way I’d duplicate everything, deeps for example.

Forget discussions of warranty, broach depth, and pick up a set of icon impacts while you are there.

Pay attention to the tools that we don’t talk about often enough. For example, I think I wouldn’t risk it with Icon bit sockets. I’d choose Snap On for that. I’d buy Snap On ratchets, and wrenches if I could afford them. I like my Snap on screwdrivers.

Full disclosure almost all my hand tools are Snap on and I have a very complete set of tools. I own no Icon tools and personally will never buy Icon because I don’t like their business practices. But I recognize they are a good fit for people in certain circumstances.

What bad business practices are there with Icon? And doesn’t Snap-On have issues with how they treat their drivers?

 

[KnurledNut]

I really like my Snap On tools. They are very nice to use. But honestly, if you were my son, I’d recommend Icon sockets. If car wrenching becomes your passion, you can swap out sets later. Buy Snap On on eBay in like new condition for 50% off. Nothing wrong with having duplicates. And no way I’d duplicate everything, deeps for example.

Forget discussions of warranty, broach depth, and pick up a set of icon impacts while you are there.

Pay attention to the tools that we don’t talk about often enough. For example, I think I wouldn’t risk it with Icon bit sockets. I’d choose Snap On for that. I’d buy Snap On ratchets, and wrenches if I could afford them. I like my Snap on screwdrivers.

Full disclosure almost all my hand tools are Snap on and I have a very complete set of tools. I own no Icon tools and personally will never buy Icon because I don’t like their business practices. But I recognize they are a good fit for people in certain circumstances.

Long ball end 3/8 drive hex bit sockets:
Snap-on 4-8, 10mm - $257.50 Backordered.
ICON 3-10mm no skips - $34.99. $21 after coupon.
Even at full price, you could buy 7 sets of ICON's and still have money for lunch, for what SNA is asking.

 

[lbhsbz]

I'm sort of a fan of them. I prefer shallow broach sockets, and without getting on tool truck, ICON seems to be the only option. I also prefer mid depth sockets over shallow where they'll fit, which is just about everywhere in what I do....(production environment) more area to grab and pull off the ratchet or impact. I have mostly Snap On, but wanted a couple dedicated sets for some dedicated benches I have in my shop.

I tried a cheap set of Gearwrench, but I hate them....deep broach (don't like it) and the size engravings are so light and small it's difficult to see what size it is...especially with my aging eyes.

The ICONs seem to do everything that my Snap Ons do, just as well. I primarily use them on a Dewalt 3/8 impact, even though they are chrome. (thicker wall normal impact sockets will not work for 90% of what I do). The size roll markings are large and clear (just like Snap On).

They are also priced right....$39/set IIRC, so I bought 2 or 3 of each set (metric and SAE) so that I can have one set on each bench and a spare set should I break something....and it was still more affordable than buying a single Snap On set.

I've been abusing them for 9 month now and have nothing to complain about.

 

[Mr_B]

I don’t have a lot of ICON sockets… I just have a set of 3/8” semi-deeps, a set of deep E-Torx, and a set of metric ball hex. They have all held up very well so far.

At this point, you know that I like to hunt for the fancier (truck and industrial) brands at garage/estate sales, flea markets…

The ICON semi-deeps make great place holders. At 40% off ($24), I don’t know how you can lose.

+1 on the semi deeps, they chump change a socket at this coupon sale price.
You can't really go wrong with any of the Chrome Icon sockets at current retail price with 40% off .
While not best of the best they are a hard to beat decent enough design great value socket in useful enough rail sets that currently has a usable easy warranty .
for the coupon price you paying nothing to complain about really .

 

[Tundra1]

I have a few of the 1/4" icon sets. Seem good, but my complaint is the size marking is not distinct and mixed in with a lot of extra stuff. So it takes me a few seconds of rolling it back and forth to decipher the size. wouldn't hold me back from buying again but wish it was easier to read at a glance.

 

[ecotec]

I have a few of the 1/4" icon sets. Seem good, but my complaint is the size marking is not distinct and mixed in with a lot of extra stuff. So it takes me a few seconds of rolling it back and forth to decipher the size. wouldn't hold me back from buying again but wish it was easier to read at a glance.

Semi-deep are perfect for Hansen trays. They have made 3 row trays for years.

Other brands, like Westling LLC, do as well.

 

[AEAdam]

What bad business practices are there with Icon? And doesn’t Snap-On have issues with how they treat their drivers?

Wow, that’s what you responded to? I posted a lot of stuff to help you and that’s your response?

 

[AEAdam]

Long ball end 3/8 drive hex bit sockets:
Snap-on 4-8, 10mm - $257.50 Backordered.
ICON 3-10mm no skips - $34.99. $21 after coupon.
Even at full price, you could buy 7 sets of ICON's and still have money for lunch, for what SNA is asking.

Ever worked on an old German car?

Tell me about the price of your bit sockets after driving a Porsche every day for 12 years like I did.

That was a little bit snarky, sorry. I apologize.

But my point is, failure mode for normal sockets typically leaves you something to grab. I like nice sockets, as you know, but I can and have lived with craftsman sockets.

Just not so easy with socket head screws. I recommend not skimping on those. But maybe it depends on exactly what your expectations are and what you’re working on. My top socket drawer is full of Snap On bit sockets because I drove nothing but German cars for 25yrs. I switched from German cars to Land Rover products, which only reinforced my choice of tool brands. (I’m a dumb ***)

Hey- sorry again. Some or much of my advice comes from points of pain, mistakes, terrible days fixing cars with cheap tools. Fixing cars is hard enough with the world’s best tools.

 

[Pinne]

Just not so easy with socket head screws. I recommend not skimping on those. But maybe it depends on exactly what your expectations are and what you’re working on. My top socket drawer is full of Snap On bit sockets because I drove nothing but German cars for 25yrs. I switched from German cars to Land Rover products, which only reinforced my choice of tool brands. (I’m a dumb ***)

Hey- sorry again. Some or much of my advice comes from points of pain, mistakes, terrible days fixing cars with cheap tools. Fixing cars is hard enough with the world’s best tools.

Agreed - I would not cheap out on hex bits. Or Torx for that matter.

For hex bit sockets you can get the identical Snap-on models from CAT with the same quality bar stock. They're around $75 for the metric 3/8 drive set. The CAT Torx are similarly affordable but are the standard models and not the HD gold bits.

 

[AEAdam]

Agreed - I would not cheap out on hex bits. Or Torx for that matter.

For hex bit sockets you can get the identical Snap-on models from CAT with the same quality bar stock. They're around $75 for the metric 3/8 drive set. The CAT Torx are similarly affordable but are the standard models and not the HD gold bits.

Thank you.

There are many kinds of sockets. As just a shade tree mechanic who fixes more stuff than he wants to, I’d say the most dramatic difference in quality outside of bit sockets is 1/4” drive.

It may be that the gap or tolerance is the same on all sockets and that the smaller the socket, a .002” tolerance say, makes up a greater percentage of the size. Consequently, when one compares or discusses socket brands, they often compare larger sockets, where manufacturing tolerance has a lesser impact, possibly concealing the real world difference between brands. Would be interesting to see testing done of 10mm 1/4” drive since that’s what so many of us use so frequently. I have found cheap 1/4” drive sockets to be rattly or vague fitting, which doesn’t inspire confidence.

As a reminder, this is closer to what I think a socket drawer should look like (in terms of contents) for most automechanics:



Bottom edge are the only “normal” six point sockets. And there is only one set of 1/2” drive (bottom left). Except for a set of swivels and some random spark plug sockets and axle sockets, all the other sockets are bit sockets. There is a huge set of Allens for German cars. Really more than normal people need. There are several sets of torx including swivels, and several sets of triple squares.

Near the ratchets, there are 2 lonely sets of SAE allens. The only other SAE sockets are the 2 red trays at the bottom. All the other red trays (in the middle) are metric.

So are Icon sockets good enough? For 1/2”, which you probably won’t need, I’d say yes. For 3/8” which you will need all the time I’d say yes based on testing. 1/4”? I’m guessing maybe.

I’ve not seen any test data on bit sockets and have had enough bad experiences to not bother. (Btw, I’ve experienced every kind of failure mode with bit sockets, but the bad one is when the socket doesn’t fit properly due to manufacturing quality or wear and it destroys the fastener’s recess. I’ve had that happen on several occasions, tho fewer with torx than allens or triple squares.

So the warranty on the tool means nothing to me really. Let me take that back, I have worn some really nice snap on bit sockets (e.g. 6mm) and warranted them because I was worried about them stripping a recess. I want my bit sockets crispy.

I know pros who have drawers full of Vim bit sockets that they hammer on and when they get worn, they just buy another set and throw it in the drawer. That’s sorta what @KnurledNut may have been hinting at and he’s right that can be an alternative to buying expensive bit sockets. You’re just banking that you’ll have a decent tool for that one bolt in the middle of some awful 6 hour timing belt job. That’s my reality.

Any way, I hope this helps. Maybe depending on what you guys drive or where you live, this won’t be helpful for you as much as someone else.

 

[Silver Lexus]

Wow, that’s what you responded to? I posted a lot of stuff to help you and that’s your response?

I appreciate your response but genuinely was not aware of bad business practices with Icon so I wanted to learn more.

 

[AEAdam]

I appreciate your response but genuinely was not aware of bad business practices with Icon so I wanted to learn more.

Let’s pass on this so this thread doesn’t get locked. Sorry I mentioned it. Forget business practices, if we are just looking at basic utility, the Icon sockets and wrenches perform pretty well.

We have zero factual data about Icon bit sockets, and my suggestion to test 1/4” drive is a good one. Not sure if anyone else has had a similar experience (3/8 & 1/2” drives are okay, but 1/4” is sloppy for any given brand)? Snap on 1/4” drive is tight. And so are the extensions.

I use 1/4” drive often and find it legit.

 

[Hohn]

I question whether ICON is better than the Pittsburg option for DIY.. Recognize that view may ruffle some feathers.

While my preference is Williams USA, I have used Craftsman, Pittsburg, Easco, ICON and no name brands over the years. At the end of the day, they all work when used properly. Too many get caught up in the “tool truck quality” and “that’s a rip off for x reason” shenanigans. Buy what you like and/or think is a good value to you.

They are thinner wall for sure, not sure if that matters.

 

[M635_Guy]

What bad business practices are there with Icon? And doesn’t Snap-On have issues with how they treat their drivers?

Based on my interaction with him over time, I'm guessing it is that they are too copy-cat, right down to the font. Personally, I don't care. I think they're established enough that they could be more distinct, but mainly I value performance and their

Ever worked on an old German car?

Tell me about the price of your bit sockets after driving a Porsche every day for 12 years like I did.

That was a little bit snarky, sorry. I apologize.

But my point is, failure mode for normal sockets typically leaves you something to grab. I like nice sockets, as you know, but I can and have lived with craftsman sockets.

Just not so easy with socket head screws. I recommend not skimping on those. But maybe it depends on exactly what your expectations are and what you’re working on. My top socket drawer is full of Snap On bit sockets because I drove nothing but German cars for 25yrs. I switched from German cars to Land Rover products, which only reinforced my choice of tool brands. (I’m a dumb ***)

Hey- sorry again. Some or much of my advice comes from points of pain, mistakes, terrible days fixing cars with cheap tools. Fixing cars is hard enough with the world’s best tools.

I've worked on many. I guess BMW doesn't rely on Torx/Hex as much in it's older cars (my current driveway has two from the mid-80's), and my Tekton bit socket set has been fine. I can't think of any that are taking a lot of cranking. I've gotten a lot more use out of my Icon flex bit ratchet though... (which has also been fine quality-wise and freakin' outstanding in terms of flexibility and utility)

 

[M635_Guy]

We have zero factual data about Icon bit sockets, and my suggestion to test 1/4” drive is a good one. Not sure if anyone else has had a similar experience (3/8 & 1/2” drives are okay, but 1/4” is sloppy for any given brand)? Snap on 1/4” drive is tight. And so are the extensions.

I use 1/4” drive often and find it legit.

I have Icon, Tekton and SK (older MiUSA) 1/4" sockets (for main sets anyway) and the Tekton seems slightly looser, but none of them have rounded a fastener/etc. I'm lucky that I'm not dealing with rust/etc.

 

[zendriver]

Based on my interaction with him over time, I'm guessing it is that they are too copy-cat, right down to the font. Personally, I don't care. I think they're established enough that they could be more distinct, but mainly I value performance and their

Honestly, what difference does it even make?

It's seem doubtful, that many Snap On users at all, would simply "jump ship" to Icon, just for the sake of lower prices.

Most people who would buy Icon, would never just buy Snap On, If Icon was never offered. They'd do what they have always done in the past - just buy Pittsburg Pro, Quinn or any of the other perfectly adequate tool wares HF sells.

Icon is just a nicer version, that people seem to like as an upgrade of HF other stuff. SO had $4.7 billion in revenue last year. HF does not seem to be eating their lunch.

 

[Snapped-off]

I had to buy the ½" drive hex bit sockets a few weeks ago on a whim. Probably the first and last sockets I'll buy there.

It was nice they were on the shelf there. I wasn't going to get a 19mm anywhere else that weekend.

 

[545_days]

I know that I couldn't possibly name all the socket brands in my tool box. Other than some spectacularly ****** no-name sockets I bought in the late 70's or early 80's when I was just a kid, I can't recall any socket failing that I hadn't already compromised by turning it down on a lathe or welding on it first. Granted, I'm just a guy who enjoys working in his garage, not a pro. But my experience has been that just about about any modern socket from a reputable manufacturer should be OK, and I have a pretty generous definition of reputable that includes Icon.

 

[pbon]

I've worked on many. I guess BMW doesn't rely on Torx/Hex as much in it's older cars (my current driveway has two from the mid-80's), and my Tekton bit socket set has been fine.

Lots of Torx, maybe more male than female, on late model BMWs. Also some hex. I don’t have any high end sockets and have been DIYing for 30+ years and getting the job done. Can think of very, very, very few instances where I thought the job would have gone better with a higher end socket. If money was no object or I was a professional, I’d buy higher end.

 

[sightbike]

They are thinner wall for sure, not sure if that matters.

Thin wall sockets are commonly used for lug nuts which have higher torque values than mainly bolts the user will touch in a routine repair. I simply contend: it’s a socket, use the right one and the bolt comes off regardless of brand.

 

[AEAdam]

Thin wall sockets are commonly used for lug nuts which have higher torque values than mainly bolts the user will touch in a routine repair. I simply contend: it’s a socket, use the right one and the bolt comes off regardless of brand.

Huh? Holy mansplaining Batman

 

[Silver Lexus]

Thanks for the advice and recommendations here.

 

[M635_Guy]

Honestly, what difference does it even make?

To me personally, it makes zero difference.

Folks raging about "copycat" stuff almost certainly have plenty of other copycat-for-looks stuff in their home and/or garage, and HF is breaking no laws, infringing on no IP (yeah - SO sued, but their suit was essentially meritless and they settled when told as much by the judge), and are not behaving in a way I'd consider unethical when it comes to the SO stuff. I'd contend zero people are "fooled" into thinking it's SO (any who are could be told/sold anything). I hope the G2 ratchets are the start of them going more of their own direction for their "look and feel" as I think it's a little distasteful, but as I said above, the world is filled with copycat products. Many just don't realize. (I've told the story here of being on the pointy-end of the truly-unethical-but-technically-legal kind of thing in my career, so I'll skip it, but suffice to say I am very aware of that line)

The one exception I have on this point for HF is the Pliers Wrench. Incorporating the diamond into the design was a bit across the line for me as far as the copycat thing (though still not as bad as what I experienced), but still not as far as an actual IP violation for look/feel.

Despite the fact that HF is an American-owned company employing far more Americans than Milwaukee Tools (3X or more), who pays strong wages and has benefits for even part-time employees, I think a lot of people who decry the copycat thing are mainly using it as a veiled anti-China thing. And as I've said before, Wal-Mart would be a vastly better and more justified target for that grump. But I digress...

It's seem doubtful, that many Snap On users at all, would simply "jump ship" to Icon, just for the sake of lower prices.

Most people who would buy Icon, would never just buy Snap On, If Icon was never offered. They'd do what they have always done in the past - just buy Pittsburg Pro, Quinn or any of the other perfectly adequate tool wares HF sells.

I agree. There's a small group of weirdos like me who own both, and I'm sure there are some techs who don't want to wind up in truck-payment-hell who at least start with Icon/similar, but...

Icon is just a nicer version, that people seem to like as an upgrade of HF other stuff. SO had $4.7 billion in revenue last year. HF does not seem to be eating their lunch.

Where SO is making its real money (large commercial contracts, government sales, and financing), Icon/HF doesn't exist.

Lots of Torx, maybe more male than female, on late model BMWs. Also some hex. I don’t have any high end sockets and have been DIYing for 30+ years and getting the job done. Can think of very, very, very few instances where I thought the job would have gone better with a higher end socket. If money was no object or I was a professional, I’d buy higher end.

Yeah, we've had newer BMW's in the family previously, and likely a new-ish X5 from a friend of mine one of these days soon (2017, which would be 5 years newer than anything in the current family fleet), plus the Volvo/Mini/Mazda/Honda we do have currently all use torx/hex pretty commonly, so it does exist in my garage. But the Tekton Allen/Torx socket sets, the Icon bit ratchet and a random set of long hex torx bits I bought for some maintenance on the Volvo have all been flawless. I can't say I haven't lusted over a nice set of PBSwiss hex bit set, but I'm just not breaking them or having any problems at all .

I can't say there's not a small piece of me that wants to grab the Icon torx, ball-hex and hex sockets sets to have:

• ...a slightly-more-complete Icon set in the drawer for under $50 for all three at the sale price
• ...a more matched set (I kinda hate that I care, but I do a bit)
• ...some redundancy (I often like having the ability to switch from ratchet to a power toll or vice-versa without having to pull the socket, or have a set that can be in the travel set without worries of not having the right stuff in the drawer).

I think living in the South means I have a lot less to deal with than folks who are in the rust belt and/or dealing with vehicles that are serviced by numptys who love ugga uggas and overly-trust their wrist-torque-wrenches. I rarely have issues with stuck fasteners, but the tools have never been a problem when I do.

[jeebus - can y'all tell I've been up since 3AM?]

 

[ecotec]

Honestly, what difference does it even make?

It's seem doubtful, that many Snap On users at all, would simply "jump ship" to Icon, just for the sake of lower prices.

Most people who would buy Icon, would never just buy Snap On, If Icon was never offered. They'd do what they have always done in the past - just buy Pittsburg Pro, Quinn or any of the other perfectly adequate tool wares HF sells.

Icon is just a nicer version, that people seem to like as an upgrade of HF other stuff. SO had $4.7 billion in revenue last year. HF does not seem to be eating their lunch.

I agree. Snap-on only has 2/3 the revenue of Harbor Freight… but Harbor Freight is a lot more leveraged.

Both are so big that they could not be easily sold so as to run away with a pile of money. I don’t like either of their business models. If I was Eric Schmidt I would have looked for a buyer years ago. He could have been a billionaire with no responsibility. He had his chance. Now he is a billionaire with lots of responsibility… which is so much worse.

Both companies, in very different ways, are stuck on the path that they are on.

 

[Kscardsfan]

Can you do anything to help me visualize that? I'm having trouble seeing how either or would be of any benefit at the tip of the socket.

Just the tip.

 

[merkyworks]

Just the tip.

Thats what she said…….