Icon tools are coming spring/summer 2019

[Skin]

I think that it is best to wait and see what happens, since the defective ratchets need to be taken off the market as they do not perform as designed. I can't really see the ones returned being rebuilt as that can get cost prohibitive, as likely they would all have to be returned to Taiwan, disassembled and new internals installed after the factory restarts making new reengineered ratchets. For a $50.00 a piece price and the shipping for all the defective ones it just makes no sense. The most likely thing is the defective ratchets destroyed and sent to scrap.

Returned to Taiwan for a kit? Sears rebuilt ratchets that were half the cost for decades.

 

[DSLTRK]

Returned to Taiwan for a kit? Sears rebuilt ratchets that were half the cost for decades.

Contractually, I'd bet HF is covered by the Taiwanese contractor in the event of defective lots of ratchets.

Individual returns due to user abuse, wear and satisfaction are on HF exclusively, and I would assume written off as cost of doing business/losses.

I am hesitant to buy Icon 1) price is high for what it is and 2) the product selection is limited. If I lose a socket, I want to be able to replace it without buying another set of them.

 

[javyLSU]

I still haven't seen any argument that makes Icon better than GearWrench or Tekton in any way, shape or form.

 

[Mr_B]

did they really?

seems to me a bunch of dual 80's **** the bed when they first came out as well.

snap-on fixed the problem but did they give you a free ratchet of your choice to compensate you for your troubles? maybe they should be concerned that their customers may expect that same level of service for tools that cost 3-5 times as much and had similar issues.

Copying means you copy same mistakes lol.
For sure snappy dealers laughed a little .
What amazes me is why couldn't go with better design ergonomically or with ratchet mechanism, 90 and 100 tooth single pawl pretty common out of taiwan and most store house brands got them.
reality is you can get a better ratchet from one of many brands using taiwan oem for ratchets and already less than ICON's price and lifetime warranty .
can't really compare to truck tool brands that a different game .

 

[Strouty]

I still haven't seen any argument that makes Icon better than GearWrench or Tekton in any way, shape or form.

Since they cost more, they might definitely be better.

 

[Parrothead]

...a bit like arguing the merits of buying a Hyundai Genesis over, maybe, a BMW 5 Series. The Genesis may be perform extremely well and may even perform better than the 5 in certain tests, however, it's still big money for a Hyundai. A BMW 5 Series at the end of the day, is still a BMW.

And that's unfortunate because the Genesis is probably a better car. Ever look at used BMW values? A used Honda Civic is more valuable than a used BMW.

Actually used Genesis prices are horrible. 3 Series BMW's tend to hold value quite well, actually. That's a bit outside of my main point, though... Toyota developed the Lexus brand to make it different than just owning a Toyota - it was an entire brand. Same goes for Acura and Infinity.

...and a Hyundai Genesis will never be a BMW 5 Series.

Not the point of this discussion but...

The brand is now Genesis, much like Lexus, Acura, Infiniti and BMW. We don’t say Toyota Lexus. Yes, they started as Hyundai Genesis so I get the comparison and why you might say that. That being said, the Genesis doesn’t have the same brand status as BMW, but if you told me I had to choose between the Genesis or BMW today...easy choice, Genesis 10 out of 10 times.

It will take Harbor Freight a long time to build that brand image to the point where people will take them as any remote threat to Snap-on. At this point, their 1000 store footprint is their best chance at success. Tekton is every bit as good from what I’ve seen hand tool wise, and they get better every day. Tekton offers combo wrenches from 8mm to 50mm with no skips! That’s what Icon needs to offer to play on that level.

 

[ChrisLS8]

I still haven't seen any argument that makes Icon better than GearWrench or Tekton in any way, shape or form.

I like their wrenches alot more. I grabbed the metric ratcheting wrenches and the finish length and fitment are very very nice. I still prefer my Tekton 90t

 

[javyLSU]

Since they cost more, they might definitely be better.

Not sure who you meant by "they" - Icon, GearWrench, or Tekton?

 

[Parrothead]

...and 2) the product selection is limited. If I lose a socket, I want to be able to replace it without buying another set of them.

And that’s what I see as their biggest downfall. Is it profitable to stock individual sockets bases on sales volume per sq ft? No. But this is where metrics don’t tell the whole story. 9-19mm isn’t going to cut it if you lose one, or need an 8mm or 21mm, or whatever. I’ve got my old Craftsman USA 3/8 sockets that run from 6mm-22mm. I’d expect the same out of professional level tools. Until they can deliver that, I’m probably not interested. I mean, nobody’s ever lost a 10mm socket, right?

 

[Mr_B]

Icon may not be the best sure, but its a convienient option for small time people looking to satisfy that tool addiction.

Snap on vs Icon tools. $35 vs $155 hmmmm....

Snap on vs icon

comparing to snapon and truck tools just a market trick on the consumer .
compare to tekton, duralast, carlyle, capri, premier, toptul and all other similar taiwan spec tools and prices similar as is warranty on some .

Plain fact is the ratchets are nothing special besides having thumb switch design much like snapon and comes with a microfibre cloth lol .
tekton and carlyle have more interesting ratchets for potential pro use .
facom and mac have some ratchets that make snapons look nothing that special
HF use snapon purely for marketing, no real effort made make a matching or better tool, just playing a game of trump cards !

ICON sockets and ratchet wrenches bit better buy as fairly decent design and appear decent enough made for cost .
Same as any Brand really from truck tools to store home brand tools they all got something that decent design, better set selection or better value and won't be a wise buy for everything .

 

[ptgarcia]

Actually used Genesis prices are horrible. 3 Series BMW's tend to hold value quite well, actually..

I know it's off topic, but here in southern CA resale value on BMW is ridiculously low. The same goes for Audi and Mercedes, too. A quick search of craigslist backs that up.

 

[zendriver]

I think it's been regurgitated at this forum about 500 times, but HFs only claim In "beating" Snap On, is on PRICE against a similar featured SO product and nothing else.

It's fact they are correct 100% of the time.

People that want to pay $150 for an SO will do so, as those who want to pay $50 for the Icon

Whether the former is "better" than the latter would seem to be a moot point.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Yarpo]

I know it's off topic, but here in southern CA resale value on BMW is ridiculously low. The same goes for Audi and Mercedes, too. A quick search of craigslist backs that up.

Because the people that own them off load them for nothing so they can get their new 2020 535i while the second hand market thinks these things are akin to space ships and impossible to work on, so nobody wants them. It's kind of silly imo

 

[Yarpo]

Not sure who you meant by "they" - Icon, GearWrench, or Tekton?

Pretty sure icon is more expensive than both in most cases by a fair bit

 

[kctyphoon]

Finally saw some of the icon stuff in person today. Impressive, especially the box. Cant wait to see how they do with sales.

 

[sk farmer]

Pretty sure icon is more expensive than both in most cases by a fair bit

i don't really know if i can go with that. i was at menards last week right after being at harbor freight. prices for the new craftsman **** (sockets and ratchets) made in china was damn near identical to the hf icon prices and that was before any sort of hf discount. i know there is a 10% off anything at hf right now and there is bound to be sales and or coupons at some point.

based on finish, ergonomics and coo hf had them beat hands down. now tekton and gearwrench may be somewhat cheaper but maybe not as much as you think.

 

[Fedwrench]

I returned my three ICON 3/8 drive flex head ratchets today. Initially the clerk didn't know about the recall until I showed him the letter. He had to have a manager approve the refund since it was over $25. the manager and the other two salespeople knew about the recall. The refund went smoothly. Hopefully they'll figure out how to fix their flex head design.
Which got me to thinking, there have been issues with other brands of 90 tooth flex head ratchets. Carlyle stopped offering the 90 tooth flex head ratchet in the US. MAC redesigned their axis ratchets after issues with the thin red gasket. SK still hasn't released their 90 tooth flex head ratchets. I'm noticing a trend here. Time will tell how this ends up.

 

[WittHay]

I have had really good luck with the GearWrench 84T 3/8 flex head. Sits along side the Snap-on and Mac in the main tool box. The Canadian Tire Maximum 3/8 ratchet I believe is a 90 tooth specially made version with no rebuild kits available

The selection is fairly limited on high tooth count longer 3/8 flex head ratchets. Its either US made Mac, Matco , Snap-on or Taiwan Gearwrench. Duralast is not a common brand around here

Lot of things I just dont get about HF. A 11 or 12" 3/8 flex is a essential part of anybodys tool box. The ratchets should all be made in one factory. Not acceptable quality factory for fixed and a different poorer quality factory for flex.

GearWrench sells for $50 cad and the locking Matco sells for $160 usd. If the Icon ratchet actually worked, the fair comparison is to Taiwan made GearWrench and not US made Matco

 

[WittHay]

I am wondering what the HF Icon ratchet is based on, obliviously not the GearWrench or the Napa style. Is it similar to a Tekton or another Taiwan brand

 

[NSXRguy]

I decided to open up my 3/8 stubby and regular length NON flexhead

To my surprise, they both have lubricant in them from the factory.

Supposedly, they come dry or maybe just the flexheads???

 

[CafeTools]

Contractually, I'd bet HF is covered by the Taiwanese contractor in the event of defective lots of ratchets.

Individual returns due to user abuse, wear and satisfaction are on HF exclusively, and I would assume written off as cost of doing business/losses.

I am hesitant to buy Icon 1) price is high for what it is and 2) the product selection is limited. If I lose a socket, I want to be able to replace it without buying another set of them.

17mm snap on socket = $31.25
Set of deep Icon 3/8 = $39.99

 

[techieman33]

I decided to open up my 3/8 stubby and regular length NON flexhead

To my surprise, they both have lubricant in them from the factory.

Supposedly, they come dry or maybe just the flexheads???

Pretty sure they're made in different factories. I saw pics of the internals somewhere and they're different designs.

 

[DSLTRK]

17mm snap on socket = $31.25
Set of deep Icon 3/8 = $39.99

What merits your decision to compare Icon to Snap On?

I can get many import socket singles for a few bucks.

Talk about a fallacy,

 

[bcradio]

What merits your decision to compare Icon to Snap On?

Harbor Freight is the one that compares it to Snap On.

 

[Tallpilot]

Because the people that own them off load them for nothing so they can get their new 2020 535i while the second hand market thinks these things are akin to space ships and impossible to work on, so nobody wants them. It's kind of silly imo

The Germans certainly have a different design philosophy compared to Asian or US and needing to know German to figure out colors on a wiring diagram is annoying. My big issue is the cost of parts. The price of OE parts in the States can only be described as exorbitant. My UK/EU friends tell me that they are reasonable on the other side of the pond.

Ownership costs should be factored into a purchase decision. In my mind the long term ownership costs of German brands in the States isn't worth the premium over Asian but cars are even more deeply personal choices than tools.

 

[NSXRguy]

Pretty sure they're made in different factories. I saw pics of the internals somewhere and they're different designs.

i wonder why the internals are different?

if im not mistaken, the size of the heads of the flex and non-flex are the same

now i wonder if the 1/4 and 1/2 flexheads are built in the same factory as the 3/8 flexheads, considering only the 3/8 failed

i used my icon for the first time last night. im not a pro mechanic so i cant really do much comparison, but it does feel nice

im considering relubing the internals using superlube instead of what they come with

 

[bubinga]

I returned my three ICON 3/8 drive flex head ratchets today. Initially the clerk didn't know about the recall until I showed him the letter. He had to have a manager approve the refund since it was over $25. the manager and the other two salespeople knew about the recall. The refund went smoothly. Hopefully they'll figure out how to fix their flex head design.
Which got me to thinking, there have been issues with other brands of 90 tooth flex head ratchets. Carlyle stopped offering the 90 tooth flex head ratchet in the US. MAC redesigned their axis ratchets after issues with the thin red gasket. SK still hasn't released their 90 tooth flex head ratchets. I'm noticing a trend here. Time will tell how this ends up.

Glad it went smooth.
So you got your $$$$ back, and a voucher for 3 new ones too, right?

 

[ChrisLS8]

What merits your decision to compare Icon to Snap On?

I can get many import socket singles for a few bucks.

Talk about a fallacy,

What merits the 32 dollars for a SINGLE SOCKET

 

[1foxracing]

This morning I exchanged my 3/8 Icon flex head for the 1/2 flex head and it was a huge pain in the ***! At first the manager broad wanted to charge me the difference in price and I about had a melt down in the store then she agreed to do a even exchange as a "customer satisfaction".
She knew nothing of the free voucher for a replacement 3/8 flex head and it took a phone call to customer service when I got home to get that handled.
I'm sure Harbor Freight is monitoring this thread and I want them to know about my experience with the exchange.

Now for those that think Icon and Carlyle are identical I also purchased a straight 3/8 90T Icon and compared to my Carlyle P90. The only thing they have in common are the 90 tooth anvils. Both were lubricated from the factory.

apparently you're not to immerse the Icon in "something"

 

[bubinga]

This morning I exchanged my 3/8 Icon flex head for the 1/2 flex head and it was a huge pain in the ***! At first the manager broad wanted to charge me the difference in price and I about had a melt down in the store then she agreed to do a even exchange as a "customer satisfaction".
She knew nothing of the free voucher for a replacement 3/8 flex head and it took a phone call to customer service when I got home to get that handled.
I'm sure Harbor Freight is monitoring this thread and I want them to know about my experience with the exchange.

Now for those that think Icon and Carlyle are identical I also purchased a straight 3/8 90T Icon and compared to my Carlyle P90. The only thing they have in common are the 90 tooth anvils. Both were lubricated from the factory.
apparently you're not to immerse the Icon in "something" (LOL....)

Yeah, I hate when a store cashier don't "know nothing about nothing"!
Like when Ace hardware has/had the coupon for half off an item under $30.00. I gave the coupon to the cashier at around 5:00 PM, she didn't know nothing about it.
"What, was I the 1st one to use the coupon that day"?
IDK maybe she just started her shift?
I'm a little confused why you wanted HF to do an even exchange on the 1/2" Ratchet?

 

[1foxracing]

I'm a little confused why you wanted HF to do an even exchange on the 1/2" Ratchet?

The 3/8" flexheads were recalled for locking up and they are exchanging them for ANY Icon ratchet of your choice or giving full refunds + giving a voucher for a replacement 3/8 flex head when they become available, I'm guessing a full year+ on the replacement.
I now see you're in Brideport, it was the Steubenville store I had the issue with and the woman's name is Kim.

 

[Hiball]

What merits the 32 dollars for a SINGLE SOCKET

Easy.... Because Snap On’s current market will support that price point. No worries though, I think I read somewhere earlier that Snap On will be out of business sometime in late 2012.

 

[bubinga]

The 3/8" flexheads were recalled for locking up and they are exchanging them for ANY Icon ratchet of your choice or giving full refunds + giving a voucher for a replacement 3/8 flex head when they become available, I'm guessing a full year+ on the replacement.
I now see you're in Bridgeport, it was the Steubenville store I had the issue with and the woman's name is Kim.

Oh wow, I didn't know that!
Well makes sense to up-grade to the 1/2" drive.
Yeah, I got my "Bigfoot" dolly at the Steubenville store, and had to buy new wheels for it. The welds broke away from the hubs after little use, with light loads.
I think I was only there the one time.
Yes, the manager should have known that.

 

[Yarpo]

based on finish, ergonomics and coo hf had them beat hands down. now tekton and gearwrench may be somewhat cheaper but maybe not as much as you think.

https://www.harborfreight.com/12-pc-38-in-drive-metric-professional-socket-set-64792.html

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QQ3L6BC/?tag=atomicindus08-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NICEW6/?tag=atomicindus08-20

The Gearwrench set has 2 more pieces, the Tekton set is about 10 dollars cheaper. Both of these companies and lines have been around for quite awhile longer than ICON.


https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-drive-professional-flex-head-ratchet-64704.html

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07J2Q2CNN/?tag=atomicindus08-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BTEXPNU/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Again, both are cheaper, been around longer, tried and tested, and in this case the Gearwrench is significantly longer. I've got a hard time seeing Icon just push out a new import line and throwing out Snap On Comparisons while jacking the price up and above its real competitors (GW/Tekton/etc) with really no additional qualities other than...I guess they include a polishing cloth?

I have had really good luck with the GearWrench 84T 3/8 flex head. Sits along side the Snap-on and Mac in the main tool box.

GearWrench sells for $50 cad and the locking Matco sells for $160 usd. If the Icon ratchet actually worked, the fair comparison is to Taiwan made GearWrench and not US made Matco

Exactly. They just slapped on a new label on some Taiwan made tools and threw a bunch of money at a marketing campaign. Pretty amazing its that easy.

The Germans certainly have a different design philosophy compared to Asian or US and needing to know German to figure out colors on a wiring diagram is annoying. My big issue is the cost of parts. The price of OE parts in the States can only be described as exorbitant. My UK/EU friends tell me that they are reasonable on the other side of the pond.

Ownership costs should be factored into a purchase decision. In my mind the long term ownership costs of German brands in the States isn't worth the premium over Asian but cars are even more deeply personal choices than tools.

Cost of ownership should absoultly be considered, but I think people again are overestimating what it costs to own one of these cars. Bosch parts are pretty cheap and are easily avaliable, as well as most other basic wear items (Gaskets etc)

As far as needing to know German, I've never had issue finding English wiring diagrams. Check this site out and note how well its setup. Looks like somebody got their hands on dealership service sheets and repair documents. You can get tightening torques, everything.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...ission-control-8hptu/shift-paddles/1VnYfWMqJW

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...r-supply-fem-front-electronic-module/GJ2nnLIK

 

[lardy1]

I made a stop by Harbor Freight today and looked at the Icon ratchets.

It didn't alter my plan to make my next new ratchet purchase an LP90.

 

[sk farmer]

i don't really know if i can go with that. i was at menards last week right after being at harbor freight. prices for the new craftsman **** (sockets and ratchets) made in china was damn near identical to the hf icon prices and that was before any sort of hf discount. i know there is a 10% off anything at hf right now and there is bound to be sales and or coupons at some point.

based on finish, ergonomics and coo hf had them beat hands down. now tekton and gearwrench may be somewhat cheaper but maybe not as much as you think.

yarpo. if you are going to quote me, quote the whole thing in context. i was making my main comparison to craftsman sockets and ratchets. i think craftsman is in that group as much as tekton and gearwrench. i also mentioned the fact that hf stuff can often be bought at some reduced price. generally in that 10-20% off. that puts the cost of icon under craftsman and in a similar range as tekton and gearwrench. no not identical prices but within a few dollars.

not saying it is right or wrong. just what has been their common practice.

also, if coo means anything to you i think most gearwrench is made in china rather than taiwan as it used to be.

 

[Yarpo]

yarpo. if you are going to quote me, quote the whole thing in context. i was making my main comparison to craftsman sockets and ratchets. i think craftsman is in that group as much as tekton and gearwrench. i also mentioned the fact that hf stuff can often be bought at some reduced price. generally in that 10-20% off. that puts the cost of icon under craftsman and in a similar range as tekton and gearwrench. no not identical prices but within a few dollars.

not saying it is right or wrong. just what has been their common practice.

also, if coo means anything to you i think most gearwrench is made in china rather than taiwan as it used to be.

Nobody was talking about Craftsman tho, the comparison was to Tekton and Gearwrench, JavyLSU asks what makes them better to justify the price increase in post 683. The only person that compared the prices to Craftsman was you and its not really relevant I don't think, The new craftsman looks terrible, the quality and price isn't their to be punching up with Gearwrench, Tekton or Capri, etc, no?

and no, most everything Gearwrench is making is still made in Taiwan if you avoid their impact sockets and the basic ratcheting wrenches. (Flat/offset reversible)

I've probably bought over 100 Gearwrench products or kits in the last three years and have received nothing made in China except two single impact sockets I purchased to fill in missing slots from an old set. I've got a list somewhere that I've been updating continually.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

https://www.harborfreight.com/12-pc-38-in-drive-metric-professional-socket-set-64792.html

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QQ3L6BC/?tag=atomicindus08-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NICEW6/?tag=atomicindus08-20

The Gearwrench set has 2 more pieces, the Tekton set is about 10 dollars cheaper. Both of these companies and lines have been around for quite awhile longer than ICON.


https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-drive-professional-flex-head-ratchet-64704.html

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07J2Q2CNN/?tag=atomicindus08-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BTEXPNU/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Again, both are cheaper, been around longer, tried and tested, and in this case the Gearwrench is significantly longer. I've got a hard time seeing Icon just push out a new import line and throwing out Snap On Comparisons while jacking the price up and above its real competitors (GW/Tekton/etc) with really no additional qualities other than...I guess they include a polishing cloth?



Exactly. They just slapped on a new label on some Taiwan made tools and threw a bunch of money at a marketing campaign. Pretty amazing its that easy.

I agree with your point about cost, although coupons/discounts may be in the future.

I've put some thought into the ICON line target market, and I think we're missing something. I realized today that most mechanics and those who work with tools, which I know, don't shop online. I always offer suggestions to buy online, but some people don't care. Tools are purely a means to an end; and they take little joy in using or buying them. In a way, the tool trucks serve the same markets. They want easy and minimal effort.

Lots of these guys buy tools via parts stores and home-improvement stores. They already know about HF, and have some stuff. Universally, they consensus I hear from those using HF exclusively is "Most is pretty good, X product ***** though". HF can target these buyers, those who need good tools and don't want to hunt for them. If you make a 10 mile radius from your home, what brands can you buy? Advance auto may have gearwrench, but it's usually not at amazon prices, and warranty can be hard. None of the GW specialty ratchets I've ever seen locally. Napa carylye is more expensive, so ICON undercuts that. If these buyers already see HF 14.99 socket sets as having good usability and reliability (they generally do), HF then has an opportunity to up sell to ICON.

 

[Jtels85]

I replaced the brakes today on my buddy’s Sierra using the Icon tools I purchased. The 3/8” drive sockets, ratchets and 13” comfort grip breaker bar were a pleasure to use. Whoever tightened those caliper bolts last put a **** load of torque on them. I was pulling on that breaker bar expecting it to break and it stood its ground, same with the socket. I’m pretty impressed so far! I JUST WISH ICON EXTENSION BARS WERE AVAILABLE. ARE YOU READING THIS, HARBOR FREIGHT? I WOULD LIKE TO PURCHASED SOME ICON EXTENSION BARS. NOT QUINN. NOT PITTSBURGH. ICON.

 

[Fedwrench]

Glad it went smooth.
So you got your $$$$ back, and a voucher for 3 new ones too, right?

The letter says the voucher will be emailed to me.