i often times don't agree with you but this post is spot on. there is so much bs from some of the kool aid drinkers. many of us here own snap-on or other truck brands for various reasons but the venom spewed towards anything other than the "big name" brand is at times just nauseating. not saying that the hf worshippers are better but there is so much good stuff out their at a great price, we as savvy tool buyers are truly blessed with the variety and yes some of it comes from hf.
Icon tools are coming spring/summer 2019
- Thread starter Fedwrench
- Start date
i often times don't agree with you but this post is spot on. there is so much bs from some of the kool aid drinkers. many of us here own snap-on or other truck brands for various reasons but the venom spewed towards anything other than the "big name" brand is at times just nauseating. not saying that the hf worshippers are better but there is so much good stuff out their at a great price, we as savvy tool buyers are truly blessed with the variety and yes some of it comes from hf.
I don't think anyone nominated ICON as the best new tool brand and most people in this thread complained that it's over priced so, i'm not sure it will demolish the competition.
ICON tools haven't been out in use long enough to see how they perform long term.
Tons of people are running away with the thought, here, reddit, youtube. Maybe people are being hyperbolic Im sure, but just look at this thread. People really think icon is innovative and unique. It's just another mid level Taiwanese import tool (Which I love, mind you)
I agree completely but people aren't happy to make those comparisons, and when they do many quickly label icon ahead of those brands without much rhyme or reason as to why. Just "because"
Precisely. We've went from affordable Taiwanese tools that have been around awhile and are of good quality to...new... Taiwanese tools that are more expensive, and therefor SO rivals, in a sense.
People loved PittsburghPro/GW/Tekton/Capri for affordable quality and hated SO because it was seen as a pointless premium. Now people are chomping at the bit to pay a premium (or more than the aforementioned brands) for...similar quality and trying to shove it down everyone's throats. A little ironic almost
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
Everything is about what you get, for what you pay; and everyone has their own value formula.
I agree that more options are almost always a good thing. There is no "best", because every situation is different, and money/cost does matter at some level. If Icon gets more people with tools in their hands, it's a good thing as far as I'm concerned.
Downwindtracker 2
Well-known member
The Taiwanese are getting pretty good at finishing sockets. Check out any number of the better imports This was an area where Snap-On really shone. Are ICON as nicely finished as Snap-On ? If HF wants to pay for it, they could be better.
KnurledNut
Well-known member
Kc, did you forget your meds again?
We've both been on here for years. I don't remember ever seeing anyone tell Joe never had any tools yet homeowner to buy snap on for his first basic around the house kit.
It’s a great talking point, and I’m certain SO has been recommended where it wasn’t asked for, but the same could be said for every brand across the board. When you have a collective group as big as GJ, people are going to be biased in there discussions and recommendations, it’s human nature.
People in glass houses........
In the End... Yes Absolutely there are specific members who feel there choice is absolute and everyone else is wrong, It’s Silly but nobody wants to admit that they chose poorly etc. Honestly, it’s a great time in tool land, lots a good choices out there.
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DSLTRK
Well-known member
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I'm not sure if people are buying it or the tweekers are liberating it
With all of the Toptul and and other stuff you have, i don't know why you give ICON a second look aside from their ratcheting wrenches
Although there's no reason to, i'm sure the Snap on propaganda machine is cranking out a set of posters for their trucks showing the inferiority of ICON tools compared to Snap on.
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i have not missed your point. i didn't quote it because i chose note to. i responded to kctyphoon's post because it stands on its own with no bs.
Mikeske
Well-known member
The only thing not mentioned and it is the fact that Snap-on is NOT DIRECT (except for the extreme markup from the website) marketed towards the home owner, the DIY and a lot of the area shops. You have to work in the trade to be able to get them and they are still way over priced. I actually see a large market for the Icon branded tools as they are marketed towards the the above mentioned market.
The other thing is Harbor Freight can't keep them in stock in my local stores and I asked when they expected more from a store manager and he stated he gets them in and as soon as they stock them on the racks within a couple hours they are all sold.
Your last paragraph probably speaks more then a thousand words. I like nice shiny tools and they are nice and shiny but I also add one other thing and it is the big word choice and if it fills a market need all is good.
DSLTRK
Well-known member
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kctyphoon
Banned
I didnt miss your point, but youre missing mine. The POINT being that for MOST people, under whatever terms you want to label them - be it homeowner, diy, shade tree, hobby, professional - SO sockets & almost every other major brand ARE comparable in real world use. To say they arent ‘just because’ all others AREN'T snap on - is ridiculous.
People can sit around and spit out measurements, weights and materials all they want - but the bottom line is this - how many times can you install, torque, and remove the same bolt with a SO socket vs a HF/Tekton/Gearwrench socket before either the socket breaks or the bolt rounds. How many times does a socket need to successfully do this before every attempt after that just becomes a waste of time?
What’s the most removed and installed fastener on every car? Lugnuts? How many stripped lugnuts do you come across because of the BRAND of sockets used on them and NOT because some guy just used the wrong size altogether? Are you gonna claim that the pro never rounds a bolt using SO sockets when in haste and aggravation doesnt seat the socket fully on the bolt?
Arguing SO superiority in sockets is like arguing whats the best synthetic motor oil. Its a lot of if’s, maybe’s, should be, and probably’s.. and will usually RELY on completely unrealistic situations, arguments that usually end with having to place a 6 foot pipe on a 3/8 breaker bar.. honestly - I’m just tired of the nonsense. These guys should start a thread of “show me your worn out sockets” that would hypothetically included hundreds of not rounded off bolts, but rounded off sockets since the sizes are so off and the metal is so horrible.
How many guys on here swear by SO chrome sockets, but then buy HF or cheap impacts? Explain that one to me.
The lengths people will goto to defend different SO items is insane. One day its “they wont break as easy as cheap stuff”, then for different drivers people will say “they are designed to break BEFORE they damage the fastener”.. lmao.. ok.. the driver magically knows when every different bolt heads is about to break, they communicate telepathically and then the socket ‘decides’ to sacrifice itself to save the bolt? awesome - so i can get SO ingenuity in a $30 set of sockets too? Sign me up. Win/win..
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Downwindtracker 2
Well-known member
Has anyone really looked at the wrenches ? How's the transition from shank to open end ? Are the edges of the shank eased enough for comfortable pulling ? What size is the box end ring ? Large ones are crude. Does the shank meet up with the ring at the top, middle or bottom ?
Every better brand does nice sockets now, but some of the details will lift them above the rest.
Every better brand does nice sockets now, but some of the details will lift them above the rest.
DSLTRK
Well-known member
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kctyphoon
Banned
Patiently waiting for the 'venom' (according to SKfarmer) and fallacious arguments being spewed all over GJ from those nasty S/O fanboys (I guess I'm one too?) about how S/O sockets/tools are perfect and every other brand is **** (according to you). If I recall correctly, I applauded the Icon 3/8" comfort grip ratchet for its precise mechanism and feel over a month ago.
I simply stated :
1). one can't compare the service that comes with the tools provided by S/O(or any other truck brand for the matter).
2). that HF and the Icon shills are the ones to start the 'comparison' to S/O and it is then perpetuated by select others on GJ Cough, Cafetools.
3). both of the above are fallacious arguments based on explicit reasoning.
You keep reverting back to the basic argument that since both are tools and can do the same job, then ICON is better 'cause it's cheaper.
I do understand that based on your hypothetical socket/bolt scenario & reasoning, one would be a complete dunce to spend $50 bucks on the Icon set when they can buy a 1/2" drive metric set on amazon for $25 bucks, lifetime warranty, free two day Prime 'door to door' shipping and of course the bolts won't know the difference. Where's that argument been all this time?
It's been ignored by you and the others since, idk, the beginning.
No, people would not be a ‘dunce’ for spending $50 when another is available for $25.. $50 is not an exorbitant amount of money for most people to spend, for a 1/2” socket set that they WANT (keyword right there) to buy. Its a realistic price that most people can afford with no real impact to their lifestyle. The ‘dunce’ would be the guy that has to wait 3 days till payday to put gas in his car, barely has any tools, but decided to make payments on a $400 SO set cause a van pulled up to his job and some guy on the internet told him it was a good choice cause he NEEDED them to ‘MAKE MONEY”.
Your SO service truck is only as good as the money that location continuously spends with them. The drivers arent showing up out of the kindness of their hearts just in case you need service. If you dont buy new tools and have no debt - let me know how long that service truck keeps showing up. You guys act like they drive around ringing a bell in every neighborhood like its a good humor truck, just in case you need a new screwdriver handle.
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WittHay
Well-known member
I feel really bad for the average diy guy here on GJ regarding the Icon line. They should be able to go to HF and buy a decent flex head ratchet with the extensions, adapters and maybe semi deep sockets and not have to listen to critics because HF decided to compare their new tools to tool trucks or top quality US made tools
Maybe somebody should phone Eric Smidt and tell him that extensions are sometimes needed between a ratchet and a socket. Also tell him that he has enough money and its okay to spend a little more and have a higher quality 3/8 flex ratchet made
There is absolutely no point in me talking to Eric the owner of the all American Asian import store and explaining to him why 12 point sockets, angle wrenches, roll pin punches, nut splitters and a thousand other tools are necessary.
You know to fix the US built trucks and trailers that are required to move the Asian goods from the ports to the HF stores. Eric could care less. It nice that there are at least 5000 small businessman selling tools who do care enough to keep the HF trucks rolling
Basically to recap, 3000 American small businessman selling 14,000 products to people at their work is incredibly bad, but a American billionaire selling ratchets that dont work and sockets with no extensions is the best thing to happen in years. Makes total sense to me
Maybe somebody should phone Eric Smidt and tell him that extensions are sometimes needed between a ratchet and a socket. Also tell him that he has enough money and its okay to spend a little more and have a higher quality 3/8 flex ratchet made
There is absolutely no point in me talking to Eric the owner of the all American Asian import store and explaining to him why 12 point sockets, angle wrenches, roll pin punches, nut splitters and a thousand other tools are necessary.
You know to fix the US built trucks and trailers that are required to move the Asian goods from the ports to the HF stores. Eric could care less. It nice that there are at least 5000 small businessman selling tools who do care enough to keep the HF trucks rolling
Basically to recap, 3000 American small businessman selling 14,000 products to people at their work is incredibly bad, but a American billionaire selling ratchets that dont work and sockets with no extensions is the best thing to happen in years. Makes total sense to me
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I have a buddy (kid really - gave me a free blue top optima so hafts to like him) thats an ace diesel mechanic with $200k of tools on his truck...he buys only HF impact sockets...my kid is a fabricator (off road custom builder) and he buys HF impact sockets..they have held up to extreme use....im still wanting that snappy tech angle torque wrench in green though...i aint goin into HF cept for towels and bottle brushes...there hot iron has held up though and goes right thru nylon rope....my rule at HF is if it has a cord avoid...HF tool cart is working out well...so cannot complain too much...guess im really down to only caring about american beer....spotted cow is really good...wait 2 days and this argument will continue with new postings
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Strouty
Well-known member
If we are all going to be honest, 60% or more of the country will have no problem with Icon tools, heck if I lived in Arizona or California I would be using all HF tools and they would work very well. The issue I have is when you live in a rustbelt state a cheap tool becomes exactly that. This usually comes up when discussing things like a flare wrench (or line wrench if you prefer), a lot of you guys have no clue why real tools are needed and from a rustbelt wrencher, the cheap stuff is just plain aggravating when you need to remove rusted hardware.
The Icon brand is a breath of fresh air that I’ve welcomed with open arms. Current Craftsman is ****, don’t care for Husky and Kobalt, it’s difficult to find Gearwrench... there’s been a void in good quality tools that are easily accessed by the average DIY’er ever since Craftsman began outsourcing years ago.
I’m not expecting them to rollout the entire line right away. I’m sure they’re going to test the waters and it’s going to take awhile. But from what I can see, the tools are selling like hot cakes and their little marketing gimmick/comparison to Snap On is working. I don’t believe it, but I think it’s absolutely hilarious. It’s hilarious hearing people think they’re just as good as Snap On and even more hilarious hearing the Snap On fan boys get bent out of shape about it.
I don’t need Snap On, so I don’t buy Snap On. I think that’s the point that a lot of you people seem to forget.. not everyone works in the trades and not everyone who works in the trades needs Snap On to do their job. Y’all act like that Brand is the end all, be all and it’s not. I see people comment on Craftsman’s page all the time, “Snap On is better”, “I hate what Craftsman has become, I only buy Snap On from now on”. Well, good for you buddy. You’re a really trooper. We should roll out the red carpet and throw you a parade for sharing your thoughtful insight.
Here’s a clue for you gentlemen that still don’t get it with your “Snap On is the greatest” comments...
Nobody gives a ****.
I’m not expecting them to rollout the entire line right away. I’m sure they’re going to test the waters and it’s going to take awhile. But from what I can see, the tools are selling like hot cakes and their little marketing gimmick/comparison to Snap On is working. I don’t believe it, but I think it’s absolutely hilarious. It’s hilarious hearing people think they’re just as good as Snap On and even more hilarious hearing the Snap On fan boys get bent out of shape about it.
I don’t need Snap On, so I don’t buy Snap On. I think that’s the point that a lot of you people seem to forget.. not everyone works in the trades and not everyone who works in the trades needs Snap On to do their job. Y’all act like that Brand is the end all, be all and it’s not. I see people comment on Craftsman’s page all the time, “Snap On is better”, “I hate what Craftsman has become, I only buy Snap On from now on”. Well, good for you buddy. You’re a really trooper. We should roll out the red carpet and throw you a parade for sharing your thoughtful insight.
Here’s a clue for you gentlemen that still don’t get it with your “Snap On is the greatest” comments...
Nobody gives a ****.
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As Dennis pointed out above all of the back and forth debate, the ICON wrenches, ratchets, and sockets are selling in our local Harbor Freights despite the pages of debate here.
I have no idea what the rest of the ICON line will contain or when other items will launch but, I'll ask the dudes manning the ICON booth at SEMA in a few weeks.
I have no idea what the rest of the ICON line will contain or when other items will launch but, I'll ask the dudes manning the ICON booth at SEMA in a few weeks.
BrandoJames
Well-known member
I really don't understand the hype surrounding ICON. I get "brand loyalty" when that brand has been around for decades and has a proven track record with someone who has used those tools long term.
But I'll give ICON credit for a great marketing campaign.
But I'll give ICON credit for a great marketing campaign.
Although there's no reason to, i'm sure the Snap on propaganda machine is cranking out a set of posters for their trucks showing the inferiority of ICON tools compared to Snap on.
Imagine the great things all of these companies could produce if their R&D budget were the size of the marketing budget?
That the sad part, wouldn't take much more effort pick better oems or design in few better features .
all the effort is in packaging and online flyers .
ICON range is very small and prices not amazing, only tools that stand out to me are the ratchet wrenches and the 90 tooth roto head ratchets not bad due to little extra handle length and fact heads can be dismantled and design is robust .
Boxes okay but overpriced, they need custom drawer height option when ordering and ideally could of done with 26" depth to appeal more for pro user and given it more 'beats tool truck' marketing lol
Lack of effort in producing the range and reserching potential customer needs .
They need singles on sockets/extensions and wrenches and ideally need clear some of the total tat hand tool brands that wasting display space .
Battery tool range and air tools well below easy potential, earthquake line could do amazing if added more bare tool range .
Mechanical Noise
Well-known member
Since we have the flare nut wrench example, I'll bring up my latest project. I'm replacing all the steel brake lines with cupronickle lines on my 17 year old Ford ****** rustbucket. My flare nut wrench on this job is a Crescent brand Chinese made 10mm. It's part of a set of 3 I got at Menard's on sale for $10. I expected to have them as backups but I'm going to give them a try. Well, I'm pretty impressed with the 10mm. It's broached precisely enough that I have to wiggle it onto a new nut and I've pulled on hard to break loose flare nuts and it's held on at least as well as I'd expect my SK 10 mm. And if the SK failed me, there's always the vicegrips or the hammer, chisel and six point socket.
Like I said, I'm impressed with this cheap Chinese flare nut wrench. And this is the third of my various rotmobiles that I'm doing a full line replacement on.
To be fair, I can't be certain that the 10 mm in the set behind it was loose or was ready to crack off it's jaw at the slightest pressure. I haven't used the other wrenches in this set.
But the cheap Chinese 10mm flare nut wrench that I'm using is a pretty good tool that's doing it's job well.
maybe that is the annoying part. the same guys keep saying over and over. but they are comparing to snap-on, but they are comparing to snap-on, but they are comparing to snap-on, but they are comparing to snap-on.
so what? who cares?
i am sure i have 20 times as much stuff from other brands as i do from hf. most of it good old made in usa iron. some of it older than dirt from long defunct brands and some of it current mfg.
i look at this thread as i have an open mind and find it interesting i just don't get why people are worked up about icon. if you don't like em and have no interest don't open this thread.
so what? who cares?
i am sure i have 20 times as much stuff from other brands as i do from hf. most of it good old made in usa iron. some of it older than dirt from long defunct brands and some of it current mfg.
i look at this thread as i have an open mind and find it interesting i just don't get why people are worked up about icon. if you don't like em and have no interest don't open this thread.
Mechanical Noise
Well-known member
Although there's no reason to, i'm sure the Snap on propaganda machine is cranking out a set of posters for their trucks showing the inferiority of ICON tools compared to Snap on.
Only if Snap on thinks ICON is costing them sales. Otherwise, I'm sure they'd rather not remind their customers that other choices even exist.
DSLTRK
Well-known member
Same.
I'd be hyped up to get USA made tools for about the same price. There's SK and Proto out there. Look at this nice SK 3/8" set for about the same money. Even comes in a nice case.
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kctyphoon
Banned
I literally just left a HF that I stopped in, to buy a mirror for the sun visor in my work truck and a brush to clean the rubber floor mats with. On my way to the register I asked the manager if he could open the gun safe on display - and after looking I just said "eh I guess I'll just watch a few YouTube videos". Next thing he said was how their new Icon line was all over YouTube already. Within the next two minutes he proceeded to tell me that they already sold 5 full set ups of the Icon tool boxes to the dealership across the street. If what he said was true - I imagine it's the new Jag/Range Rover dealership being built, but there are a few different ones very close. He said the reason the guy told him he went with Icon is he didn't have to wait.
No idea if that's true, or if the guy is just telling me a story - but that sounded like a valid incentive to me. I guess it takes a while to order new boxes from the tool trucks.
No idea if that's true, or if the guy is just telling me a story - but that sounded like a valid incentive to me. I guess it takes a while to order new boxes from the tool trucks.
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WittHay
Well-known member
I think that any people that are getting annoyed on this thread should phone Harbor Freight at 1 800 444-3353 in Camarillo, California and ask for Eric Smidt.
Tell him to quit marketing Icon tools as tool truck equivalents or top of the line professional tools meant for the "master mechanic or technician". Whatever that means
Until that happens any comments from posters in this thread that dont work in commercial shops or buy off the tool trucks is irrelevant or meaningless. The Icon tools are not meant for you
Tell him to quit marketing Icon tools as tool truck equivalents or top of the line professional tools meant for the "master mechanic or technician". Whatever that means
Until that happens any comments from posters in this thread that dont work in commercial shops or buy off the tool trucks is irrelevant or meaningless. The Icon tools are not meant for you
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78C-10
Banned
Just buy Snap On, Mac, Matco, Cornwell and be done. Buy once Cry Once. I don't understand this ICON hype.
ptgarcia
Well-known member
Because (presumably) you can buy once and not cry at all.
That's the whole point of this line of tools.Downwindtracker 2
Well-known member
When I checked Snap-On prices, which are common to the trucks, non truck US made are 1/3 the price. You need to improve your shopping skills. Maybe you wife can help ?
KnurledNut
Well-known member
Wow. It's funny because ALL those brands are not sold at ANY local retail stores. That's why icon is getting a lot of positive attention. There's finnally some competition. Let's face it what else is there locally?
We have Craftsman, kobalt, husky, and Pittsburgh. Icon is being marketed as slightly higher quality than those. I think it's refreshing.
DSLTRK
Well-known member
Bigblue&Goldie
Well-known member
You never did answer; why are you selling that 3/8" drive set of sockets already?
I think it’s time we just face the facts, the Snap On guys are all right, we are wrong and move on.
I’m selling all of my tools and going to spend time chasing down the Snap On truck so I can pay full price for every set of sockets, wrenches, pliers, screwdrivers, etc.. that I need. As a DIY’er that works in pharmaceuticals and who only uses his tools maybe once again per week, I need Snap On. Cry once, right? I’m just not good enough or worthy enough without owning/using Snap On tools. My nuts and bolts won’t turn without Snap On. I can’t believe what an idiot I am for buying tools from Harbor Freight. I just want to be cool and fit in like everyone else.