Icon tools are coming spring/summer 2019

[woody6904]

Has anybody gotten the long ratcheting wrenches yet? Wanting an SAE set and just curious if anybody has any first impressions after using them?

 

[Mikeske]

Has anybody gotten the long ratcheting wrenches yet? Wanting an SAE set and just curious if anybody has any first impressions after using them?

I got the 7 piece long ratcheting wrenches in SAE and they are nice. The shank is a bit on the thin side but under a load removing a stiff bolt there was no obvious flex. The action of the ratcheting part of the wrench was for the most part smooth but improved a lot by using a couple drops of 3 N 1 oil (or light machinery oil). Overall they are nice wrenches. One thing is search for a 10% off no exclusion coupon on the web and have it on your phone if you decide to buy a set.

 

[Mr_John]

One could argue there are very real tangible differences between your bike and one from a big box stores while basic hand tools have been pretty well figured out and there is no difference between an import or a truck socket that costs 10x as much.

I hear you on the sockets... I think you would have a hard time (logically) justifying the added expense of a Nepros/Snap-on/Ko-ken/Hazet socket vs what you could get from Apex's GearWrench (I really do like GW's socket's btw).

 

[2000-cvpi]

Just a general FYI, when you write "not to be a ****," usually what follows is something ****-ish. I digress, though.

Here’s what three seconds online got me:

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1111964_genesis-to-establish-dedicated-dealerships

There is a stand alone Genesis dealership in my medium sized Michigan town. Of course it’s next to Hyundai, but Ford is on the other side.

And I know exactly what I said and what it implies.

 

[Mr_John]

I think you might need to check the temperature in the room or have your family get out more if they’re unaware of the Genesis line.

https://www.autonews.com/dealers/genesis-sales-jump-more-dealers

And today Genesis doesn’t have the same status as a BMW or Mercedes, but then again people said that about Lexus when they launched too. Who’s going to buy a fancy Toyota? Nobody’s laughing now. Around me, the Tesla is the status symbol for executives and I live in the land of status symbols. Audi/Lexus is also very common.

Chevy and Ford didn’t think Hyundai would be an issue either...

You're crazy if you think the Genesis brand is well known. It may seem that way to YOU, but I assure you, if you ask 100 women of varying ages from 20 to 60, that almost everyone will identity BMW (and know it's premium) and maybe less than half will know that Genesis is an actual vehicle brand, and not just a vehicle model. I GUARANTEE you.

Lexus was launched when there really wasn't any premium Japanese vehicles. Now you have Lexus, Acura, and Infinity. Lexus had a MASSIVE marketing campaign, as well (who doesn't recall the wine glasses on the hood that's become a meme?). And, Lexus dealerships were renowned for service. Again, most people are going to Hyundai dealerships to have their Genesis serviced. That other guy that told me to just google all of the Genesis dealers, well, haven't heard back from him after I told him that those Genesis dealers are mostly Hyundai dealers that sell Genesis models. They are not stand=alone dealers.

According to that article you linked - Genesis sold 408 G70 cars in the entire US in Q4 2018 (that's about 8 per state, and that's their COTY model!).

Leading the sales recovery is the G70 compact sedan launched late last year. While Genesis sold just 408 of the award-winning sports sedans in the fourth quarter, U.S. deliveries rose to 2,231 in the first quarter of 2019.

 

[Mr_John]

Here’s what three seconds online got me:

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1111964_genesis-to-establish-dedicated-dealerships

There is a stand alone Genesis dealership in my medium sized Michigan town. Of course it’s next to Hyundai, but Ford is on the other side.

And I know exactly what I said and what it implies.

That's NOT a stand alone dealership if it's "next to" (ie - attached) to a Hyundai dealership. Nice try. Lexus dealerships are not "next to" Toyota dealerships. They may be close to a Toyota dealer, but they aren't attached to the same damn building.

 

[protegeV]

Sounds more like what Toyota used to do with Scion.

 

[2000-cvpi]

You're crazy if you think the Genesis brand is well known. It may seem that way to YOU, but I assure you, if you ask 100 women of varying ages from 20 to 60, that almost everyone will identity BMW (and know it's premium) and maybe less than half will know that Genesis is an actual vehicle brand, and not just a vehicle model. I GUARANTEE you.

Lexus was launched when there really wasn't any premium Japanese vehicles. Now you have Lexus, Acura, and Infinity. Lexus had a MASSIVE marketing campaign, as well (who doesn't recall the wine glasses on the hood that's become a meme?). And, Lexus dealerships were renowned for service. Again, most people are going to Hyundai dealerships to have their Genesis serviced. That other guy that told me to just google all of the Genesis dealers, well, haven't heard back from him after I told him that those Genesis dealers are mostly Hyundai dealers that sell Genesis models. They are not stand=alone dealers.

According to that article you linked - Genesis sold 408 G70 cars in the entire US in Q4 2018 (that's about 8 per state, and that's their COTY model!).

I responded to your post fifteen minutes before your latest post.

 

[2000-cvpi]

That's NOT a stand alone dealership if it's "next to" (ie - attached) to a Hyundai dealership. Nice try. Lexus dealerships are not "next to" Toyota dealerships. They may be close to a Toyota dealer, but they aren't attached to the same damn building.

Next to, not connected in any way. It is a stand alone dealership. All it has in common with Hyundai is that the dealership is next door. Just like Ford on the other side, BMW directly across the street.

 

[Mikeske]

Here’s what three seconds online got me:

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1111964_genesis-to-establish-dedicated-dealerships

There is a stand alone Genesis dealership in my medium sized Michigan town. Of course it’s next to Hyundai, but Ford is on the other side.

And I know exactly what I said and what it implies.

You're crazy if you think the Genesis brand is well known. It may seem that way to YOU, but I assure you, if you ask 100 women of varying ages from 20 to 60, that almost everyone will identity BMW (and know it's premium) and maybe less than half will know that Genesis is an actual vehicle brand, and not just a vehicle model. I GUARANTEE you.

Lexus was launched when there really wasn't any premium Japanese vehicles. Now you have Lexus, Acura, and Infinity. Lexus had a MASSIVE marketing campaign, as well (who doesn't recall the wine glasses on the hood that's become a meme?). And, Lexus dealerships were renowned for service. Again, most people are going to Hyundai dealerships to have their Genesis serviced. That other guy that told me to just google all of the Genesis dealers, well, haven't heard back from him after I told him that those Genesis dealers are mostly Hyundai dealers that sell Genesis models. They are not stand=alone dealers.

According to that article you linked - Genesis sold 408 G70 cars in the entire US in Q4 2018 (that's about 8 per state, and that's their COTY model!).

That's NOT a stand alone dealership if it's "next to" (ie - attached) to a Hyundai dealership. Nice try. Lexus dealerships are not "next to" Toyota dealerships. They may be close to a Toyota dealer, but they aren't attached to the same damn building.

Sounds more like what Toyota used to do with Scion.

I responded to your post fifteen minutes before your latest post.

Next to, not connected in any way. It is a stand alone dealership. All it has in common with Hyundai is that the dealership is next door. Just like Ford on the other side, BMW directly across the street.

Gentlemen this is a tool thread. Why not break this off and go over to free parking area and start a thread there. Now back to our regularly talked about item and that's the Icon line.

 

[Mr_John]

Next to, not connected in any way. It is a stand alone dealership. All it has in common with Hyundai is that the dealership is next door. Just like Ford on the other side, BMW directly across the street.

Here, this is a quote from your linked article:

Genesis is looking to sign up only around 100 dealerships in the United States in 2018. It won't be a smooth process as around 350 Hyundai dealerships are currently selling Genesis products and some will likely have to give up the business. Furthermore, Genesis is expected to make it so that only full-franchise dealerships will be able to do warranty work. That's a sore point for Hyundai stores that had also hoped to add Genesis repair services to their bottom line.

So, 350 Hyundai dealers selling Genesis models, and 100 SIGNING UP in 2018. A 100 Genesis exclusive dealerships is about 2 per state.

I don't think your small town Genesis dealer is one of those 100. It sound more like one of the 350 that are also selling Hyundais.

What's the address?

 

[Mr_John]

Gentlemen this is a tool thread. Why not break this off and go over to free parking area and start a thread there. Now back to our regularly talked about item and that's the Icon line.

Well, the point was that ICON is like the Hyundai Genesis of tools and Snap-On is more like the Audi or BMW. We may have gone a bit off the rails, but the comparison still stands... Harbor Freight is like a Hyundai dealership attempting to move upscale and sell ICON tools, but when a pro mechanic shows off his new $5K ICON tool chest, the other mechanics with Matcos and Snap-ons will probably look at him like... you spent $5K on a tool chest from Harbor Freight?

Just the same as somebody might say... you spent $60K on a Hyundai?

 

[woody6904]

I got the 7 piece long ratcheting wrenches in SAE and they are nice. The shank is a bit on the thin side but under a load removing a stiff bolt there was no obvious flex. The action of the ratcheting part of the wrench was for the most part smooth but improved a lot by using a couple drops of 3 N 1 oil (or light machinery oil). Overall they are nice wrenches. One thing is search for a 10% off no exclusion coupon on the web and have it on your phone if you decide to buy a set.

Thanks for the response, had to swim thru all the other **** posts in this thread to find it.

 

[M6erfan]

Thanks for the response, had to swim thru all the other **** posts in this thread to find it.

The 'Ignore' button sure comes in handy

 

[Cheapskate]

Gentlemen this is a tool thread. Why not break this off and go over to free parking area and start a thread there. Now back to our regularly talked about item and that's the Icon line.

I would respectfully like to second this request.

 

[Yarpo]

This reply is for others, just for fun walk into a Genesis, Lexus or just plain Toyota service department and ask them what brands they use and why. Ask any mechanic at your local car dealership if they are consider buying any Icon tools

I doubt they've even heard of them.

I'm a professional mechanic at a Mercedes dealership...can I answer?

I haven't heard anyone mention Icon in particular, but the shop is pretty split. About half the guys are die hard snap on fans, with snap on everything and the other half are budget minded. ****, 60% of my tool box is gearwrench and only about 10% of it is Snap On. The guy across from me does have a US general roll cart, and the guy next to me has a Husky cart so its not like Snap On is the only thing needed or allowed.

^For a professional mechanic, there is, but it has nothing to do with where the socket comes from. I'm not a mechanic anymore, but part of the way I paid my way through college was working as a mechanic until I graduated. As a professional, I traded my time, knowledge, and skill, for money. Every minute you spend not working on a vehicle is money you're losing. The cost of tools is simply not material to the equation - but the time you spend not using your tools (acquiring/fixing/warranteeing etc) is. This is where the average Joe doesn't understand that paying $150 for a ratchet that is delivered to and serviced at my place of employment is actually worth it in the long run. The tool trucks are selling service WITH the tools, so the tech can spend his time making money, instead of spending time (i.e. money) driving to stores during/after work, or surfing the internet shopping for tools, or packing tools for shipment to return for warrantee service... All of these obstacles and time ***** practically disappear when a professional tech buys from a tool truck.

I dunno, I disagree. If I spend 500 dollars for a set of wrenches, or 150 dollars (Snap On vs Wright) I'd have to be earn an extra 350 dollars to justify that purchase. The 20 minutes it takes me to get a beer/soda and find something online to buy is nothing in comparison to 350 dollars, or roughly 14 hours of work. Sure 14 hours of work could maybe be done in 10 hours or so, or one days worth, but It would take a lot of down time to make up thousands of dollars worth of tools if you compound it out and bought 300 dollar socket sets vs 30, and so fourth.

That said I seriously have some great Snap on Tools, I love their ratchets and they're a joy to use, pliers too, but sockets? Nah give me a break. Its the same reason I think ICON is out of their mind. Why pay 40 dollars for a set, when a 20 dollar set does the same thing? I think the whole scenario falls apart when mid/high level Taiwanese tools do the job day in and day out with minimal/no issues. I've not warrantied a single tool, and amazon has any new tools I want to my door in two days. I'm trying to find out what else I want that's snap On besides more of the Instinct grip drivers/picks, but I dont really need anything...

Edit; Actually I lied, no joke this happened today and I forgot I took a picture of it. The first tool I've "broken" or has broken on me. Tekton torque wrench, noticed the plate was pretty loose and one of the torx screws is gone, the other was loose. Gotta spend 5 minutes and find Daves username, I'm sure he'll send me a new screw (or 2)

 

[Parrothead]

Gentlemen this is a tool thread. Why not break this off and go over to free parking area and start a thread there. Now back to our regularly talked about item and that's the Icon line.

Thanks for the response, had to swim thru all the other **** posts in this thread to find it.

I would respectfully like to second this request.

My apologies to contributing to the derailment of the thread. All comments unrelated to ICON tools have been deleted. While I see the correlation of the previous discussion, it had taken on a life of its own and should be continued elsewhere.

 

[javyLSU]

...

Yarpo, thanks for the good points. Like I said, it's been almost 20 years since I stopped working as a professional mechanic and changed careers, and times have changed for sure. Back when I was in the trade there wasn't nearly the choice of quality tools there is today. Your current experience surely is more relevant than mine is.

 

[Yarpo]

Yarpo, thanks for the good points. Like I said, it's been almost 20 years since I stopped working as a professional mechanic and changed careers, and times have changed for sure. Back when I was in the trade there wasn't nearly the choice of quality tools there is today. Your current experience surely is more relevant than mine is.

Yeah I think its changed ALOT, I know I've heard from many mechanics (my uncle included) that back in the day it was pretty much Snap On and then everything else was "meh" at best. I've got him using a few Tekton tools now and hes still wrenching and they're holding up well

At the end of the day tho, I think it does come down to time and how you value it as you mention. For me, I'm at my computer a lot as I like to game, read (forums/books/politics/etc) and various other PC things, so taking a few minutes to buy something online is just another day for me. Other people are not avid computer users and live more active lifestyles, and as such maybe they'd prefer to not have to think about it and would prefer to just throw the truck guy 40 or 50 bucks a week, convince as you mention. No shame against that, and in the end they'll have some amazing tools too!

 

[Mikeske]

Very good points Yarpo on the perspective of a automotive technician/mechanic. I am a retired aviation mechanic and I agree that a lot of the statements, the one really interest me is the sockets as just about all of them down to the even the budget priced ones for the most part can and do the job. Things do break and I for one always had my backups but after 40+ years I just grab what socket that was handy as long as it was the proper size. some of the brands we all learn from experience will round off a bolt or nut and we would dispose of the socket and use another one.

With Icon tools out I did buy a set of the ratcheting long reach wrenches in SAE and Metric and after using them I am happy that I bought them, I also picked up the flex head long reach 1/2" 3/8" and 1/4" ratchets in chrome and yeah I one of the locking 3/8" returned it before the recall and tried out the comfort grip but it also had the same locking issue. I did try white grease and it locked up worse on both of them.

I basically am only buying what I had never had in my basic set of tools from 1983 and that was ratcheting wrenches, Bonney tools never made that style wrench and the flex head 1/2" and 1/4". I am guessing a lot of the technicians and mechanics likely will do the same and buy some of the tools as fillers and backup tools if something happens before the tool truck can get back to their shop they have the Icons as the temporary backup.

 

[ChrisLS8]

Well, the point was that ICON is like the Hyundai Genesis of tools and Snap-On is more like the Audi or BMW. We may have gone a bit off the rails, but the comparison still stands... Harbor Freight is like a Hyundai dealership attempting to move upscale and sell ICON tools, but when a pro mechanic shows off his new $5K ICON tool chest, the other mechanics with Matcos and Snap-ons will probably look at him like... you spent $5K on a tool chest from Harbor Freight?

Just the same as somebody might say... you spent $60K on a Hyundai?

So how would the 60k be a waste on a "Hyundai" if that car was of higher quality or more reliable, better engine, better features etc than an equivalent model of the same or higher price bracket? This is taking aside any perceived value from a brand name which is a huge part of markup for some brands.

I've test drove a G70 quite a few times in my search for a new car and imo for the money it can't be touched but people get weird cause of the parent company but I guarantee you if that same car had a different badge on it you'd be singing a different tune

 

[M6erfan]

...but I guarantee you if that same car had a different badge on it you'd be singing a different tune

And that right there is the point, applicable to most things including cars and tools.

 

[CafeTools]

The "bling factor" is actually a huge part of why people spend money on tools. And there's nothing wrong with that. Icon has way more bling than regular harbor freight tools. Harbor freight was doing okay with thier Hardline tools, but it was kind of in need of something nicer, and they did it!

 

[measuredtwice]

If the Icon logo were replaced with a Stanley logo and sold at Walmart, then would this topic be 46 pages long? Doubt it.

Harbor Freight marketing and the Harbor Freight shills associated it with Snap On by comparison even though it has nothing to do with Snap On. They could have compared it to Pittsburgh or Tekton but they didn't because they don't have the same brand recognition. Most people have no idea of quality but they do know the Snap On name.

 

[kythri]

Why are you Snap-on shills so afraid of the Icon line being successful?

 

[CafeTools]

Marketing a new brand is all about attention grabbing. And by comparing icon to snap on is a great way to do it. That's what they did and it worked. Even if some don't like it, it was an excellent decision on thier part.

 

[CafeTools]

Why are you Snap-on shills so afraid of the Icon line being successful?

I agree. What's with all the icon hate? I think it's cool harbor freight is now carrying prettier tools. And better designed in some cases. Like the new icon wrenches have the anti slip design on the open end.

Love it or hate it icon is here to stay boys! And you better get used to it.

 

[measuredtwice]

Marketing a new brand is all about attention grabbing. And by comparing icon to snap on is a great way to do it. That's what they did and it worked. Even if some don't like it, it was an excellent decision on thier part.

I agree that it was a very successful marketing campaign.

I agree. What's with all the icon hate? I think it's cool harbor freight is now carrying prettier tools. And better designed in some cases. Like the new icon wrenches have the anti slip design on the open end.

Love it or hate it icon is here to stay boys! And you better get used to it.

I don't love or hate Icon. I don't love or hate Snap-On. I do think the Harbor Freight shilling and propaganda is ridiculous.

 

[WittHay]

^ Nah, I disagree Harbor Freight is just half truthful. The only thing that they state about Icon on the homepage of their website is "Tool Truck Quality, Unbeatable Prices"

I agree on the first part, call BS on the second, when the tool trucks are GearWrench and Toptul

 

[measuredtwice]

^ Nah, I disagree Harbor Freight is just half truthful. The only thing that they state about Icon on the homepage of their website is "Tool Truck Quality, Unbeatable Prices"...

Are you claiming that they don't make a comparison with Snap-On??

As one example from the Harbor Freight site: "Icon beats Snap-On in a head to head battle. See how Icon's modular solutions destroy the competition."

My complaint is not with Harbor Freight for marketing. My complaint is about the shilling and propaganda on social media.

 

[WittHay]

^I have no problems with the You Tube guys, thats their job, get free stuff. promote it and bash the competition. My problem is that HF stands for anti small business and anti US manufacturing.

On Garage Journal the HF vs. the tool trucks is like politics. Some people have strong opinions either way, Others could care less. I dont think anybody is a shill on GJ. Nobody gets free stuff or are paid to promote a brand

I might have been wrong with my other comment. Maybe its BS on the first part and agree with the second part when the tool trucks are Mac and Snap-on

Either way I am just calling BS on Harbor Freight's slogan "Tool Truck Quality, Unbeatable Prices"


The prices are more expensive than GearWrench or Toptul and the quality is not as good as US made Mac or Snap-on

 

[mikehaugen]

I stopped into HF yesterday just out of curiosity and the ICON tools were just so/so to me.

The ratchets has an unbelievable amount of back-drag and the chrome seemed crude on the wrenches... had that wierd look (maybe color) that most asian tools have.

Sorry, but I don't feel that they come close to competing with snap-on just in overall feel. And priced higher than other decent imports.

I'm a pretty big "Made in USA" supporter but I also realize not everyone can or has the desire to be, and sometimes it's just plain impossible... but I try. I'll admit I have a few import tools here and there, but when if/when I buy more, Icon will not be high on my list.

Sent from my SM-G930V using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Fedwrench]

A Toptul truck!!

I would love to have that option available to me

 

[lardy1]

I don't understand why anyone cares what brand of tools I buy or how much I pay for them. All that seems to me like my own personal business.

We all have our own personal idea of what constitutes value. I see nothing wrong with preferring one brand over another. But I fail to understand why anyone else would give a rats *** about anyone else's preference unless they are forced to pay for it.

 

[Jtels85]

I don't understand why anyone cares what brand of tools I buy or how much I pay for them. All that seems to me like my own personal business.

We all have our own personal idea of what constitutes value. I see nothing wrong with preferring one brand over another. But I fail to understand why anyone else would give a rats *** about anyone else's preference unless they are forced to pay for it.

Because, like some dipshit who made a comment on an Instagram post yesterday, “Icon tools are for the tool polishers who can’t afford Snap On”.

What is with this mentality? It’s like they’re tool shaming people to make up for a lack of something else...

Just like those guys who tailgate you in big, jacked up 4X4 trucks. They’re just in a hurry to get home and kiss their dad on the lips.

 

[BrandoJames]

I don’t see auto techs buying many Carlyle tools from NAPA, who does a piss poor job of marketing their great line of tools. Most people probably don’t even know Carlyle exists. I don’t see anyone buying Milwaukee wrenches. Where are they available besides online, Home Depot?

It's surprising to me that Home Depot (at least here locally) doesn't stock any of the Milwaukee hand tools, just power tools. I think Milwaukee hand tools would sell. Unlike Icon, Milwaukee is an established brand with a proven track record. I'd feel quite comfortable walking into a Home Depot and buying Milwaukee hand tools. The price point would be higher than Husky and whatever other hand tools they sell, but I can see serious DIYers and maybe techs willing to pay that.

 

[TexasT]

It's surprising to me that Home Depot (at least here locally) doesn't stock any of the Milwaukee hand tools, just power tools. I think Milwaukee hand tools would sell. Unlike Icon, Milwaukee is an established brand with a proven track record. I'd feel quite comfortable walking into a Home Depot and buying Milwaukee hand tools. The price point would be higher than Husky and whatever other hand tools they sell, but I can see serious DIYers and maybe techs willing to pay that.

A more expensive chinesium tool that would take sales from their husky house brand? Can't even see that as a viable plan. I wouldn't be in for either one but the weekend diy guy is mostly shopping on price. So taking up the valuable shelve space with a high priced item(that probably has a lower mark up) isn't on a marketing person from hd radar.

I will give this icon brand a look on my next swing through at hf. I don't usually even go down the hand tool isle. I'm not really an offshore tool buyer. Though I have been contemplating retiring the usa craftsman in my travel bags and boxes so they don't get lost or stolen. Those tools have 30-35 yrs of use so they have paid for themselves. As pointed out above a metal socket holder with a bail on it would definitely be nice or at least a decent quality rail. Not everyone works out of a rolling box/cart.

My next big purchase will be a set or two of the usa made Tekton 15*/30* angle wrenches. Unfortunately, every time I manage to surf through they are out of stock.

Maybe the icon will have some of these to see, but I doubt with offshore mfg I will pull the trigger on em.

Either way, competition helps the consumer in most cases. And with the economy booming and money being no problem, times are good.

 

[1982fxr]

I agree. What's with all the icon hate? I think it's cool harbor freight is now carrying prettier tools. And better designed in some cases. Like the new icon wrenches have the anti slip design on the open end.

Love it or hate it icon is here to stay boys! And you better get used to it.

I don't have a dog in this fight but I'm guessing they'll kill icon within 5 years. It's harbor freight.

The only thing icon has going for it is the ratcheting wrenches. The boxes are kind of a joke. I've seen them in person.

 

[toolmutt]

It's surprising to me that Home Depot (at least here locally) doesn't stock any of the Milwaukee hand tools, just power tools.

A more expensive chinesium tool that would take sales from their husky house brand? Can't even see that as a viable plan. I wouldn't be in for either one but the weekend diy guy is mostly shopping on price. So taking up the valuable shelve space with a high priced item(that probably has a lower mark up) isn't on a marketing person from hd radar.

I was in my local Depot just yesterday. They had a brand new, huge section of Milwaukee hand tools right next to the Husky.

 

[Mr_John]

So how would the 60k be a waste on a "Hyundai" if that car was of higher quality or more reliable, better engine, better features etc than an equivalent model of the same or higher price bracket? This is taking aside any perceived value from a brand name which is a huge part of markup for some brands.

I've test drove a G70 quite a few times in my search for a new car and imo for the money it can't be touched but people get weird cause of the parent company but I guarantee you if that same car had a different badge on it you'd be singing a different tune

Well, you're missing my point a bit. I've said that I do, personally, like the Genesis G70, What I said was that many other people (esp women) don't even know what a Genesis is. So, when you're explaining what it is - you inevitably have to explain it's a luxury Hyundai car company. So, when you explain to others that you just dropped $60K + on a nascent Hyundai brand made in Korea (and not Germany), some people will look at you like you're crazy.

So, to tie this back into the ICON brand, lest anyone get their undergarments in a bunch... I'm not arguing that ICON tools aren't good tools, but they have no history like Snap-on, MAC, Matco, Hazet, KTC/Nepros, Ko-ken, SK, Proto, Stahlwille, etc... brand history and cache (as well as where it's made - USA, Japan, Germany... and to a lesser extent South Korea) are often critical factors in the purchase of a premium tool. I do like a lot of HF stuff, and have bought a lot of HF stuff -- but, HF is a tool RETAILER, and does not have much of a history as a TOOL Manufacturer, Designer, Engineer. I've read about some issues, already with ICON ratchets - the flex heads, although it's not totally clear what the issue, was, but don't recall the last time Snap-on or Matco recalled a ratchet. It's less of an issue when you're asking $10 for a ratchet, but more of an issue when the price point is higher than GearWrench.