RAYJAY
Well-known member
they will pass them by going 90 mph .....They can try but they'll never win the authenticity contest.
Icon vs Tekton combination wrenches
- Thread starter cfk
- Start date
Autoguy
Well-known member
Asian tools are value for the price and getting better and better every year
Japaneese tools are excellent but pricy
Japaneese tools are excellent but pricy
Black300zx
Well-known member
Third explanation, I'm uncharacteristically NOT picky after using a set of Sears "Companion" combination wrenches for the better part of a decade before getting some nicer mid-tier Taiwanese wrenches
Brett in KS
Active member
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2009
- Messages
- 40
Huh, Thanks for posting that. All I've ever heard was the same old "HF will only warranty a whole set". Thats what kept me from buying Icon stuff. Not because of wear or failure, but because I use tools on the farm and stuff ocasionaly gets lost. And I hate mismatched sets.
Attachments
oooh, I’d think more about that. There’s a lot of talk about theoretical damage to hardware that I haven’t actually experienced in the wild. Bolts are pretty hard. The wrenches don’t just “cut“ into them. And it’s rare that I’m hossing on an open end. When I am, I usually don’t care if I’m disturbing a finish. Please think again about replacing these wrenches for that reason.
In my machine shop, I have smooth open ends. Pretty sure all my automotive wrenches have the enhanced open ends and it’s never been a problem for me. Hope this helps
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Hohn
Well-known member
Agreed. The concern over messing up a hex head is overblown. By the time you put enough oomph on an anti slip to ****** the head, you will have already buggered it with a regular wrench, most likely.
They aren’t all coupling nuts
You mentioned the coupling nuts earlier. Probably important to say out loud:Agreed. The concern over messing up a hex head is overblown. By the time you put enough oomph on an anti slip to ****** the head, you will have already buggered it with a regular wrench, most likely.
They aren’t all coupling nuts
The reason TTC uses soft coupling nuts to test open ends is because if/when he used decent grade nuts, he’d shear the shanks before the open ends slipped providing zero comparison data.
So, this wrench is stronger, this wrench “beat“ snap on or snap on ”beat”…is all related only to the test conditions. Not worthless data, but HUGE grain of salt when comparing wrench strength.
For normal automotive hardware in decent shape, most wrenches will break the bolt before they spread and slip. Most, not all.
I personally look closer at TTC results for torque per thickness (indicating tool strength), thickness (accessibility, lower is typically better), and slop to determine best wrenches. Snap On is usually best ranked for these criteria unsurprisingly. But some outliers interest me. Some of the euro wrenches are particularly thin. Assuming to get strength numbers up, Asian wrenches are often thick. it’s good data but you have to use it wisely.
IRQVET
Well-known member
That was the complete opposite of what I was told by my local HF (minus the district manager in the mix). Sounds like your a lucky man . . .
On another topic, I will say one thing about the Tekton wrenches that let me down- was the bulk/roundedness of the lower jaw. I was replacing a part in the tight space, and couldn’t make it work with the Tekton. So I grabbed an old Craftsmen (circa 1999) wrench of the same size, and was able to complete the job. Having a lower profile lower was/ is something Tekton needs to perfect IMHO. Simular when comparing these two wrenches, if you look at the low profile/ slip in angle of the ICON. Thats how my old Craftsmen was able to slip into tight spaces. Not possible with the Tekton.
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oldschoolcraft
Well-known member
Funny, the #1 reason I haven't bought any Icon wrenches or sockets is the "you have to warranty the whole set" policy. I wonder how much potential business HF has lost over the years to a few lazy employees deciding not to follow the corporate policy.
However, one thing that is kind of appealing, if I break one wrench from another brand, they might have changed the fonts, logos, etc on the wrenches and now I have a mismatch. Whereas if HF is requiring you bring the whole set, I am guessing they let you swap all of your tools for the new ones, even the ones that aren't broken.
However, one thing that is kind of appealing, if I break one wrench from another brand, they might have changed the fonts, logos, etc on the wrenches and now I have a mismatch. Whereas if HF is requiring you bring the whole set, I am guessing they let you swap all of your tools for the new ones, even the ones that aren't broken.
Blackwolfe
Well-known member
Not a full time wrench user, but the only open end wrench I have ever spread was a Snap On. IIRC it was 1/2 or 9/16. Not hating on Snap On. Got a Snap on basic mechanics SAE set over 50 years ago at a special price through High School auto shop. Cost was about 1/3 of retail. They have served me well.
Since then I have picked up mostly Craftsman dating back to the 70s of which most are metric sizes. I believe most if not all are U.S. made. The Craftsman have also served me well.
I have also picked up a few tools here and there of various other manufacturers. When I need a new tool these days that I don't have, I try to buy American if possible, but price is a consideration in addition to quality. Good to see what people think of the Icon vs Tekton quality and pricing.
Since then I have picked up mostly Craftsman dating back to the 70s of which most are metric sizes. I believe most if not all are U.S. made. The Craftsman have also served me well.
I have also picked up a few tools here and there of various other manufacturers. When I need a new tool these days that I don't have, I try to buy American if possible, but price is a consideration in addition to quality. Good to see what people think of the Icon vs Tekton quality and pricing.
Honestly, I think most of the people who are told that hear it from a non-manager employee that doesn't want to do the paperwork/process to put the discounted package on the floor after removing the single item. I don't take any **** from them. I know the policy and if anyone there (including and especially a manager) told me anything different, I'd place a call to their customer service on speaker phone.
HF should really stomp any employee not following this policy - it lingers around and makes people hesitant. They should also offer to ship a single if the customer prefers.
oldschoolcraft
Well-known member
My concern is that if I had to go even a single time to warranty the tool, and I had lost or just temporarily misplaced the rest of the set, I would waste a bunch of time either being frustrated in the store getting denied or looking for the misplaced wrench in the set. I also dont keep all of my SAE tools in my main toolbox. I keep all of my Metrics no skip and add in a few SAE sizes. If I'm buying SO or Tekton I can buy singles SAEs, but with HF they only sell an entire set of Icon SAE so now I have to keep track of where I am keeping the SAE tools that are not part of my kit to help warranty the ones that I'm actually using.
So then buy Tekton. I did. They are perfectly adequate.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
That's just the reality of a "retail" setting. No kidding somebody working hourly at HF doesn't want to deal with a warranty claim. Make it hard, add hoops to jump through, it's perfect for the employee.
Believe it or not, lube techs complain about doing.... tires and oil changes! You'll find the ****** snap-on and other tool truck dealers ***** about warranty too. Surprise surprise, they're usually not raking in the cash.
Not sure what HF needs to do about it. I don't think many people consider in depth the warranty prior to purchase. I would believe the HF home base is somewhat in favor of the inconvenience to customers as it limits their warranty claims somewhat. Not having single tools available can perpetuate this as well. The latter is my personal belief as to why they don't have singles.
oldschoolcraft
Well-known member
I went on the HF subreddit and found people complaining about the store manager refusing to warranty single tools, and having to get the district manager involved. And then also people saying if you dont have the receipt they are going to want to scan your drivers license into their shoplifting system that is a national database that large retailers like Home Depot subscribe to and will refuse returns if you exceed a certain threshold. What's the threshold? They won't tell you. Did you hit it? Sorry, too bad, no more returns for any reason. Can you appeal? Nope.
I won't be letting HF scan my drivers license to warranty a broken wrench, so I think I'll just stick with Tekton to begin with. And also not have to play the HF coupon game. If a wrench set is $100 at HF, it's really "worth" $80 because they put out 20% coupons on a regular basis. So if you dont wait for a coupon, you're overpaying. But now you have to track coupons and have a headache to deal with.
I say that their stuff is only worth 20% off retail because they coupons regularly and we can't be expected to believe they are losing money when they run coupons. It's just that they are making less money than normal.
Before Bed Bath and Beyond went bankrupt they'd have 20% off everything coupons, all the time. Literally every day there was a way to get a valid coupon. What that means was they were inflating their prices by 20% above what would be an appropriate margin, and you were overpaying if you didn't have the coupon.
I won't be letting HF scan my drivers license to warranty a broken wrench, so I think I'll just stick with Tekton to begin with. And also not have to play the HF coupon game. If a wrench set is $100 at HF, it's really "worth" $80 because they put out 20% coupons on a regular basis. So if you dont wait for a coupon, you're overpaying. But now you have to track coupons and have a headache to deal with.
I say that their stuff is only worth 20% off retail because they coupons regularly and we can't be expected to believe they are losing money when they run coupons. It's just that they are making less money than normal.
Before Bed Bath and Beyond went bankrupt they'd have 20% off everything coupons, all the time. Literally every day there was a way to get a valid coupon. What that means was they were inflating their prices by 20% above what would be an appropriate margin, and you were overpaying if you didn't have the coupon.
Hate it when I can't polish my ****.
I wish they'd sell individual Icon combos just so I can try one or two of my most used sizes and see if I like them before going full in.
IRQVET
Well-known member
Yeah, that would make alota sense. Another area where Tekton earns my business. Tekton isn’t perfect, but pretty darn good is the best way to explain them. And I perfer to suport Michigan over China, even if most of their stuff is from Taiwan. I can get behind Taiwan way before I get behind China. So its a win-win in my eyes from a global perspective.
My .02 cents
That makes it 100% a no-go. I'm not jumping through hoops to buy something.
You said you wished you could
(it's how the world worked pre-internet - not really that hard, though I agree it's silly they don't have a site to do it)That's how it worked pre-internet and without retail stores. A store 8 miles away needs to stock things.You said you wished you could
I don't believe this exists. Beyond the various privacy aspects that are questionably legal, it just doesn't make any sense. Sounds very conspiracy-theory. I'd guess store managers look for people who are serial returners and control for abuse of the policy, but that's about it. I've exchanged or returned a few things over the years, and they've never asked for my driver's license. They'll look up a receipt with my phone #, but that's about it.
There are plenty of posts/videos of people walking in, showing the dead tool, getting a replacement and walking out. I think that's the norm TBH.
I mean, Tekton is going to want your name, address and phone number to do a warranty replacement...
Home Depot used to accept returns for cash, without a receipt. This involved providing your drivers license (understandably) and if you hit a certain limit you could only return items for store credit. I presume this is the policy to which he is referring? As far as I know the “database” was limited to Home Depot.
Anyways, they got rid of this policy back in 2020-2021 due to potential for abuse, ie: Stealing something from the store and going back to exchange it for cash
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
Same idea as "no customers in the shop for liability". While I'm sure some vauge liability exists, it also exists for customers escorted through the shop. Anyone in the shop who is not an employee has this liability.
Basically we don't want their annoying *** bothering us while we're working or them hurting themselves and wasting our time. I don't have time to worry about ******* walking into a trail of sparks, or parents having children look at a welding arc.
I too doubt there is a 30 story tall "mainframe" at the harbor freight HQ using sentient AI to determine warranty abusers. They just want to weed those people out manually at the store. If someone comes in daily to swap out a ratchet they put a pipe over there will be efforts to stop that. Being that warranty likely costs the store manager money out of their paycheck, they have incentive to minimize warranty costs. District manager also holds this liability, but spread over numerous stores which makes them more insulated. More importantly they don't want the HF higher ups to deal with a customer who went over the DMs head to resolve an issue. You don't want any of the corporate people involved more than they already are.
Whut.
Yeah - when they're handing over cash, I understand requiring ID. But I don't think there's a database in the sky shared among retailers to catch people cheating/abusing the warranty policy.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
Have you had a job before? 50% or more of his pay will be bonus structure. Hit the bonus often? They move your target to make it harder.
The store manager and DM both will get paid from gross profit of the store or district. Warranty lowers profitability. Enough people warranty a tool and your bonus evaporates. That's why stores get tight with warranty. Because if they're on the edge they're not giving up several thousand dollars of pay for the month for you to get a new wrench. That ignores the whole "warranty is work and thus people don't want to help to avoid working" aspect. This is the same reason stores are understaffed constantly, to save payroll, to make a bonus. Bonus bonus bonus, basically anything you don't like about how a business is run can be traced back to compensation.
Why do you think shops and suppliers fight over core credits and returns? Because the shop manager needs to clear his books to get his bonus, but the supplier doesn't want negative sales run against his numbers to **** up his pay check.
Imagine you deliver a load of apples, buyer decides they don't like the apples, and you have to drag the load back for free on your time and your diesel. That's what warranty and returns are, they kill your GP. Because the manager should get a certain GP% per dollar of total sales, and splitting that wrench set means they take a lower GP% on a wrench set. And that's adds up.
Just like the snapon drivers who are on Hold with snap on HQ don't want to warranty things, the harbor freight that'll adds hoops to jump through wants you to take that loss of GP% somewhere else.
I don't know for sure either way, but I doubt they allow warranty to impact the manager's pay, at least to any significant extent. The whole thing about the warranty is to make it as Sears Craftsman-like as possible: walk in, walk out. As soon as you start screwing with their paychecks over it you literally put customer service at the tip of a spear. Unlikely IMHO.
You'd be dead wrong, not surprising. There's at least one, called 'the retail equation' that does just that. Or they claim to, at least. their accuracy is questionable, but retailers do use them, and do refuse returns (and also thiings like: "we'll take this back, but you can't return anything else for six months"). And yes, your returns to one client are used in the decisions of other clients. The home depot are a customer, I do not know if HF are.
A warranty claim is not a return. dont' let them treat it like one.
Hence my response.
Warranties aka corporate policy aren't going to be at the discretion of a local manager influenced by his personal income. It's not a tool truck.
"I have to stop accepting warranty claims so I can make rent."
Sounds a little odd.
HF wouldn't have managers if their personal income was based on their tools being high quality.
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oldschoolcraft
Well-known member
Lowes contracts with TRE as well. I got into an argument with the clerk when I tried to return something, with the receipt, they demanded my drivers license. I gave them my passport card which is what I carry for ID because it doesnt have a home address on it, so better for privacy purposes as an ID. Not sure why they needed my ID if I had the receipt, I think because it was for $210, a power tool I returned.
They refused to process the return, claiming their database needed a DL number. I presented my valid government issued ID that is valid to cross international borders and they denied it. Eventually after arguing for 30 minutes, they typed some bypass code in and processed the return.I dont return a lot of stuff, they didn't "recognize" me or anything like that. It's just their process.
The main purpose is to deter shoplifting. Criminals will steal stuff, and then go back to the store and try to return it for a cash refund. Most store policies allow you to return stuff without a receipt, but they'll give you the lowest sales price it was over the last 6 months. However, they want to limit how often they offer this convenience so they contract with TRE that tracks how many returns you make without receipts nation-wide at every retailer that participates. They track you based on your DL number, name, DOB, and home address.
What places like Home Depot and Lowes are also doing, if you return something without a receipt, they'll issue you a Gift Card, rather than give you cash. Which is a concession, at least they give you something without a receipt... except criminals were still exploiting this, shoplifting, getting a gift card, and selling the gift card for 80 cents on the dollar for cash. So Home Depot and Lowes starting locking the return gift card to your drivers license number. When they issue you the gift card, it's on a special gift card called a "return gift card" and it is locked to your DL number. When you check out using it, the clerk has to look at your ID and type in your DL number as a PIN to allow you to use it. That prevents you from selling the gift card.
The moral of the story is, you should only show your DL to the police, the DMV, or to a rental car agency, because you never know if they are adding you into some kind of national database that will be used against you in the future. Maybe in 10 years, TRE or another competitor will spring up and assign people FICO credit scores for tool returns / warranty claims.
"Oh you broke HOW many sockets over the last decade? Sorry, you can't use our warranty anymore, go shop somewhere else."
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2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
GP% is the pay. Warranty cost is a part. Often GP% and everything that entails, or they could do cost of goods sold and include warranty cost and warranty plans sold in there. Payroll may be it's own tier. That's just retail. You can't manage the place and just get a paycheck, they need a carrot to dangle.
When your district manager won't let you cut hours of operation, has minimum staff levels, etc where does the 0.01% come from? Same deal as shaving hours, mess with the clock times until payroll costs are in line. Common place in retail. 5min here, run the lunch an extra 10, you can remove or reduce mimor overtime pretty well and most employees don't audit their time clocks.
Of course to corporate office would never condone denying a legitimate warranty! Wink wink, nudge nudge. "Get the numbers where they need to be or we will find someone who will". As soon as there is skin in the game people start trying to find an edge. And every warranty done hurts the "numbers", as it's the store eating it. They're not getting a credit on the back end like the tool trucks, they're selling the set for cheaper now. It's not mailed back to Kabo for another wrench, they toss it in a bucket of scrap.
I see this time and time again. Suppliers refusing to issue credits before day X is a common one. We have hundreds of dollars in returns, defects, cores - and they complete refuse to do anything but wait out the month. They're getting top tier bonus, not going to screw that up. "Oh I forgot, I'll send those credits right down". Never happens until the 1st. Then they don't want a big negative surge, so you get to wait as they trickle things in on big sales days. That's just the reality of business in 2024. IDK how it was before, but my whole working career this has been the style of business.
Apply the above to any business where you're not getting what you want and ask yourself if it fits.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
800 Fico score ..... 350 tool warranty user score....
Hey can you cosign for some wrenches for me?
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
What was this thread about? Oh yeah, wrenches...
andersen24
Well-known member
I originally started purchasing some of the Icon stuff up until the typical HF nightmare warranty issue. HF is the WORST for not having a consistent warranty policy and it seems to vary from store to store. I had one of my Icon wrenches spread and I took it back to the store I bought it from. Was directly told, no receipt, no warranty, I went online and found the purchase, but they told me I needed an actual receipt. I drove to the next HF store, 30 miles away, and they exchanged it no problems or questions asked. That right there was enough for me.
I now have a complete 72” box full of nothing BUT Tekton, and I have had extremely good luck with them. We have built cars for KOH, the Rubicon, etc. and I as well as all of my buddies love Tekton. Have I broken a tool - yup sure have, was I using it how it was designed - nope I wasn’t. BEST part about Tekton is their warranty. The times I broke a tool out of misuse, I contacted them and told them EXACTLY what I was doing when I broke it and literally no questions asked, no need for a receipt, they FedEx you a replacement that same day. All they need is a pic of the tool showing the damage and a pic with the part number and here comes your replacement. I had zero expectation for them to replace it when I told them what I was doing, but they told me no problem, we’ll send you another one. I was wholly expecting to have to buy that tool again, which leads to the second reason I love Tekton………you can actually buy a single tool WITHOUT having to buy a complete set!
I will say, Tekton isn’t going to be for everyone, but for me they are pretty amazing. And it doesn't hurt that you get 10% rewards from all your purchases for future purchases. I attached a couple pics of my setup and some of the toys I/we work on..
I now have a complete 72” box full of nothing BUT Tekton, and I have had extremely good luck with them. We have built cars for KOH, the Rubicon, etc. and I as well as all of my buddies love Tekton. Have I broken a tool - yup sure have, was I using it how it was designed - nope I wasn’t. BEST part about Tekton is their warranty. The times I broke a tool out of misuse, I contacted them and told them EXACTLY what I was doing when I broke it and literally no questions asked, no need for a receipt, they FedEx you a replacement that same day. All they need is a pic of the tool showing the damage and a pic with the part number and here comes your replacement. I had zero expectation for them to replace it when I told them what I was doing, but they told me no problem, we’ll send you another one. I was wholly expecting to have to buy that tool again, which leads to the second reason I love Tekton………you can actually buy a single tool WITHOUT having to buy a complete set!
I will say, Tekton isn’t going to be for everyone, but for me they are pretty amazing. And it doesn't hurt that you get 10% rewards from all your purchases for future purchases. I attached a couple pics of my setup and some of the toys I/we work on..
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Is this something you know for a fact about HF specifically or are you generalizing from other retailers?
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
Generalizing off every retailer I've ever heard of or known someone to have worked for. This is business in America, as far as my work experience, and why I added this to a thread questioning warranty policy on a store by store basis. The following is from an HF indeed ad -
40 Matthew Drive, Uniontown, PA 15401
$68,050 - $97,808 a year - Full-time
"Profit Maximization
- Drive sales to exceed financial goals
- Manage payroll and control expenses
- Foster a results-driven store environment
- Successfully execute special events"
EDIT: I can confirm a bucket of broken tools at HF, where the "warranty" stuff goes. Mostly sets when I used to go there. They always wanted sets back to bust your balls.
ChevyEFI
Well-known member
If you might return something and are keeping the receipt, pay cash. There is no legal nor contractual basis to ID for anyone if you are returning a purchase and have broken no law. None.