Ideas for landscaping post

[Mosby]

I realize this isn't the specific type of thing this forum is for. but this is the only forum like this I read, and you guys always have great ideas for stuff.

So the wife wants those string type lights over the pool/patio area at our house. I want to run a V shape, with both ends coming from the house crossing over the pool/patio area to a post, pole, tower etc. about 50 feet away from the house.

I want the string of lights to be about 8-10 feet above the ground at the lowest point, which I think will be the pole in the yard. On the house I think I will attach them higher than that.

The question is what to use for the post/pole whatever. I initially thought about using a dock pilling, I live near the water so that is easy to find. But then I thought that might look kind of ugly like a big telephone pole in my back yard.

Don't want to use a 6x6 treated post. I think that is too big, and again will look ugly. I think a 4x4 that long will most likely warp and twist. So in a few month or years it will look like hell.

I also thought about one of those flag pole kits. But not sure that's right either.

Any ideas for a nice looking 10' "thing" to put in the ground in my back yard that will look nice and I can run a set of overhead string lights to?

 

[tncatadjuster]

2-2X4 with blocks between, dental it up nice, plant Clematis at bottom.

 

[tboy]

10' tall and two strands of 50' lights?

I am thinking you will want something really robust, and will need to string a steel cable along the route to hold up the lights. On their own I think 50' of lights will droop too much (just my guess really, based on christmas tree lighting).

I'd be stringing out 50' of light and seeing how hard I had to pull on them to get an acceptable straight line.

I guess this depends on how high they can start on the house.

Maybe set a post in cement, and an anchor (also in cement) a few feet behind the post and route the steel cable across the top of the post, and down to the anchor and back across the top of the post again.

 

[Mosby]

tboy, Yes I was thinking I would need to run a steel cable from the house to the post and back again.

Part of why I am struggling to figure out what kind of post to use for this. It probably won't need to hold a lot of weight. 100' of led lights can't weigh more than 20lbs to 30lbs . But it is a continual pull in one direction. So anything with flex will probably take a set to lean in that direction over time.

 

[Marctrees]

Just don't run any lighting or wires OVER or too close to the pool.

***** - Check NEC code for that.

The minute you and Mama are out of town some sultry summer weekend and your Teen has a surprise pool party and some showoff pulls the string down into the pool... say goodbye to pool life.

Otherwise, prudently done your idea sounds great.

Oh- And use a GFI protected ckt in all cases for the light strings.

Marc

 

[machsnell]

I like this idea. Basically a column with some trim detail then plant a vine of some sort Rose's, clematis, even dwarf ivy so you still see it but it diminishes it. If you wanted to get fancy you could trim in cedar and leave uncoated to weather. Depends on rest of house/landscape styles.

Otherwise I would go with flagpole style black pipe so it isnt really noticed.



Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[Marctrees]

https://mikethepoolman.com/string-lights-bad-idea-above-swimming-pool/

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf...hUKEwj9gsDapbvnAhUBKawKHQLTCnkQ4dUDCAs&uact=5

 

[PugetDude]

4" S40 pipe, ****-welded cap, welded 3/4" eyebolts to support a 3/8" or 1/2" cable.
But that's a steel guy's perspective.

 

[Marctrees]

Guys - I think OP is talking about super lightweight Christmas mini lights is all...

Not edison base festoon lighting in a Miami/Dade used car lot.

Marc

 

[Marctrees]

4" S40 pipe, ****-welded cap, welded 3/4" eyebolts to support a 3/8" or 1/2" cable.
But that's a steel guy's perspective.

Oh ok... I get it ... I guess this was a "GJ" type of proposal.

Marc

 

[tncatadjuster]

tboy, Yes I was thinking I would need to run a steel cable from the house to the post and back again.

Part of why I am struggling to figure out what kind of post to use for this. It probably won't need to hold a lot of weight. 100' of led lights can't weigh more than 20lbs to 30lbs . But it is a continual pull in one direction. So anything with flex will probably take a set to lean in that direction over time.

No need for steel cable I will send you cord. I bought a building that was formerly a blind company. I have spool of cord that has held up my lights for four years of UV and no failure.

PM address and I will get it out.

 

[MoonRise]

10 foot clearance above a pool is NOT CODE COMPLIANT! (certain exclusions may apply)

The -minimum- height for a light or fan 'above' a pool is 12 feet above the highest water level.

Power lines or similar must be even higher.

http://www.homeownersnetwork.com/booktopic/lights-fans-near-swimming-pools-spas/

In addition, there are recent (within the last 2-3 revisions of the NEC) further wiring requirements. More GFCI requirements (outlets AND switches), requirement that the 'ground' wire (the EGC) MUST be at LEAST 12 gauge copper, more fine points.

Big one is that the item must be "listed" for the use. If the light does not SPECIFICALLY stated that it may be used over a pool, then you can NOT use it over a pool. Even if all the 'other' NEC requirements are met.

But what about some 'low voltage' lighting, you ask? NEC requirements still apply. Grounding, GFCI, distances, height, etc all still apply, as well as whether the item is "listed" for the use over a pool.

NEC Article 680 covers pool electrical requirements.

This is NOT the same situation as running some Christmas lights outside. Which would not meet the "listed" requirement anyway if you were to string them over a pool AFAIK.

Short answer: Nope.

Longer answer: Nope, there are a LOT of NEC requirements to meet to be safe with lighting (or anything) electrical near a pool. You can NOT just rig up some Christmas lights over your pool. Even if there are lots of pretty images of all sorts of lights strung over a pool.

http://www.floridabuilding.org/fbc/...ectrical Safety - fact sheet - 2016-06-30.pdf

Ask your local Building Department for the applicable electrical requirements for running some electrical lighting over your pool. It's WAY more than just sink a post in the ground and run some Christmas lights over the pool.

 

[MushCreek]

You guys are missing the big picture. I'd run the lights out to the 40 X 80 shop that he needs back there.

 

[CraigStu]

Moonrise could the lights be run along the sides of the pool? How far would they need to be away from the edge of the water to be considered not 'over the pool'?

 

[bullnerd]

Sailboat mast style is the first thing that pops in my head.

 

[bugnut]

I'm first thinking we're talking Christmas tree style lights. So I'd look at clothes line props set on a piece of pvc in a flower pot with posies planted in it. Easy to move, relocate, looks pretty decent holds up wire, rope, cord, lights etc. Can be relocated when swmbo changes the plan.

"Household Essentials Outdoor Telescoping Clothesline Prop, Steel"

 

[Mosby]

So to clarify some of your questions.

My pool is kind of an "L" shape, but both halves are the same length, if that makes sense. At the intersection of the two halves, is a water fall feature, with a walk way that goes around the pool. There is a Japanese maple planted there and the water fall comes out of a rock feature. That water fall is approximately a 2 foot fall into the water.

The Japanese Maple is about 2 foot beyond that, and the walk way goes behind that. My plan is to put the pole on the other side of the walk way, so off hand I will say it will be roughly 8 feet away from the water at that point and I want a pole 10 foot above ground, with ground level being about 4 feet above water level there. On that side of the pool the house is 2 stories with an above grade crawl space, so the two ends of the lights that attach to the house, should be roughly 23-25 feet up.

I will guess that where the wire will attach to the pole will be about 13-14 foot above water line, but by the time it actually crosses water it will be 16-18 foot above the water line at the water fall. We have no diving board, and it would be almost impossible to jump into the pool at that location anyway. You would have to leap frog over the Japanese Maple, which is about 4 foot tall. From there the wires are crossing up and over the shallow end of the pool. So no jumping in on that end, but even so, it would you would probably have to jump from the pool deck anywhere from 15-20 feet straight up in the air to grab the wires.

I am looking at using LED lights, but they are larger bulbs to look like old school glass globes.

The outlet I will plug it into is a GFI outlet, but I need to check



on the grounding wire for it.

I need to check on finding lights rated to be over a pool.

That is also the reason I wanted to hang them from a stainless steel cable rather than rely on just the cord to support their weight. Which I really doubt will be much more than 20-30 pounds for the whole string. So even a 1/4 inch cable should be overkill to support that weight.

 

[MoonRise]

Moonrise could the lights be run along the sides of the pool? How far would they need to be away from the edge of the water to be considered not 'over the pool'?

Anything within 5 feet horizontally from the inside edge of the pool is considered 'over' the pool.

(pool) ===== greater than 5 ft ===== (now considered NOT over the pool)

But you still have ALL of the other pool electrical requirements to meet. GFCI protection, continuous 12 AWG copper EGC (grounding conductor), and especially

LISTED FOR THE PROPOSED USE.


Typical Christmas lights do NOT explicitly say that they are "listed" to be used with *** feet of a pool. From what I remember when glancing at the blurbage on some standard 120 V LED Christmas lights a few years ago, it said something about only being used for 'temporary' decorative holiday lighting. Did not explicitly say 'listed for use ove/near a pool or spa' or anything like that.

Depending on the AHJ (building/electrical inspector in this case) interpretation of the Code, putting some 'permanent' lighting over a pool -might- trip the very specific grounding AND bonding requirements for pool electrical equipment.

Part of the reasons for the Codes being so picky and specific about electrical things on/in/around a pool is because of the potential (no pun intended) for mishaps or failures that can lead to death. No joke.

For instance: Someone rigs some 120 V Christmas lights over their pool. Light wire breaks and falls into pool (wind, squirrel, soccer ball, pool toy/float, falling branch, whatever caused the wire to break). Now there is 120 V in the pool. BZZZT, electrocution.

Same starting conditions, 120 V light string over the pool. Someone is using the standard aluminum pool pole to scoop leaves/chipmunks/sticks/whatever from the surface or to vacuum up the dirt/worms/leaves/chipmunks/whatever from the bottom of the pool. Back end of the extended metal pool hits the frayed 120 V light string or hits a bulb glass and completes a circuit to the contacts in the 'bulb', BZZZT, person gets electrocuted.

Even a PERMANENTLY mounted (hard mounted, screwed to the building type) light has some specific electrical requirements if it is used 'near' or around a pool. Height, horizontal distance, GFCI, etc.

Ask your local building/electrical permit office for their specific requirements to run a string of lights over a pool.

Read up NEC 680 requirements.

Look up that article the Marctrees posted in the link at

https://mikethepoolman.com/string-lights-bad-idea-above-swimming-pool/

This idea is actually more detailed once one looks into the proposed application (stringing some lights over a pool) than just 'what landscaping post do I need'.

And OP, you started off with not wanting a 4x4 wood post because it would (probably) warp and look not so good. But also not wanting a 6x6 post because it would look too beefy. What do you think would work then, 5x5 posts?

Your call.

 

[bullnerd]

How about low voltage landscape lights?

Same code issues?

 

[Marctrees]

Poor OP asked about ideas for a Pole and now we are piling on him.

Mosby - We just don't want you to get in trouble!!

Marc

 

[nadogail]

This discussion make me glad that I don't have a pool and I don't want one.

 

[tboy]

OP's pool sounds nice and if he can work out the code requirements as well as structural ones this lighting feature sounds like it will be awesome as well.

It's good to bring up the concerns, but as we all know there ways to engineer through the concerns, GFCI, distance away, properly rated devices etc...

 

[rjacobs]

I ran a 50' string of LED edison style bulbs around my patio I built last year.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WVOV3W2/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Longest run is 22'... I used black iron pipe screwed into flanges I screwed into 4x4's that were in planter beds I built... I believe I used 5' lengths... then I put thin stainless cable between them to secure the lights to. The 1" black iron pipe bent when tensioned... Not bad and the lights have a natural droop to them, but not ideal. I couldnt go up any larger in size due to the flange of the pipe being too big for my 4x4 posts.

If you need to go 12' high, you need something like a galvanized fence post concreted into the ground... and I would angle it back to pre-load it a little.

 

[velocipede]

The edison style lights around my patio are zip tied to a plastic coated SS aircraft cable that is strung on poles formed from galvanized fence material. Galvanized posts are sunk in concrete at the corners and pre-loaded as rjacobs suggests. Ten foot sections of top rail are then slipped inside the posts and secured by machine screws drilled/tapped into the posts. The top rail posts are topped by Aluminum Chain-Link Fence Rail End and the cable is run through the caps. Inserting the 10.5' top rail section into the posts lets you use the full length of the rail plus what ever portion of the post is sticking out of the concrete. I think my lights are at 12'.

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

An important consideration is the anchor of the post that you are tieing the lights to. True the weight of the lights is not a lot, however, that weight is constant, and may increase in the event that you get freezing rain, or snow while they are up. That constant pull, especially when the ground is wet, and soft, will eventually pull the pole, until it leans, or even tips over. Remember the winds are ( almost ) a constant pull on the pole.

My neighbor has a simple flag pole, which was set by a very reputable firm in the area, but over the years, the wet ground and prevailing winds has given it a pronounced list. ...and it never had any weight, other than a 3x5' American flag.

It is not a huge deal, but I pride myself on overkill and only doing a job once.




.

 

[Alchase]

If the lights are only for aesthetics, what I did was run the 200 ft solar powered LED ferry light strings. They are light, inexpensive, basically a copper wire. I have white ones on all the peach and nectorine trees, blue on thee trellis, and purple on the lilac trees.
And the best part, My wife loves them!

 

[TylerRNEMT]

6x6 pressure treated posts for the shade sail and the lights are ran from house the garage attached to steel cable. I don’t think it’s ugly at all

-Tyler

 

[tboy]

If the lights are only for aesthetics, what I did was run the 200 ft solar powered LED ferry light strings. They are light, inexpensive, basically a copper wire. I have white ones on all the peach and nectorine trees, blue on thee trellis, and purple on the lilac trees.
And the best part, My wife loves them!

Need some pictures of this, sounds neat!

 

[Mosby]

OK this is the third time I have tried to post a reply. Each time for some reason I am logged out when I hit the post reply button and everything I wrote is gone.

Here goes again...

I am in no way arguing against any of you who have posted the regulations or possible issues with doing this. HOnestly my initial plan met most of the regs posted here. With out even knowing them. My post was already going to be setback more than the 5 feet, more than likely 8 feet or so. My plan was for 10 foto above grade, which would have put it about 14 foot above water level. That along with the mountings on teh house being about 25 feet up, would have the wires being no closer than 16-18 feet up at the closest point. Which would have been in an area of the pool impossible to jump from anyway. ANd going steeply up from there.

I had also planned on a GFI outlet that would be dedicated to those lights anyway.

But that being said it sounds like it is still a bit risky and after discussing it with teh wife last night she got all freaked out that we were going to fry the kids.

The thing that started all this is she is throwing a wedding party this April and wanted the lights. So now she has decided she just wants them up temporarily instead, since no will be swimming then anyway. But it should be warm enough to be out around the pool.

Honestly that sounds like more work for me than the permanent setup anyway. Definitely not drilling into the house for a temporary mounts, and still have to set some kind of posts. Then take it all down afterwards!!

But happy wife happy life and all that ****. So I guess she is getting her lights after all, but they will come down the next day, and this summer all the kiddies will be safe.

Thanks for all the ideas and input

 

[CN Spots]

No need for steel cable I will send you cord. I bought a building that was formerly a blind company. I have spool of cord that has held up my lights for four years of UV and no failure.:

The one over on Air Park?

 

[larry_g]

Have you considered some fiber-optic lighting? Or renting a lighting system from an events place?

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Alchase]

Need some pictures of this, sounds neat!

Here is a crappy iPhone pic of a couple of the trellises and two of the peach trees.
Can’t get them all in one iPhone pic.

 

[tncatadjuster]

The one over on Air Park?

Allen Blind on Frisco.

 

[NUTTSGT]

OK this is the third time I have tried to post a reply. Each time for some reason I am logged out when I hit the post reply button and everything I wrote is gone.



Thanks for all the ideas and input

Click the "Remember Me" box when you log in.

 

[BD1]

Makeup or buy a garden trellis . Fabricating your own you can use thicker material. It would like a decorative column. Some kind of a design between uprights like scrolls work.

 

[58Yeoman]