ideation and discussion

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I hope the title brought you all in. I'll preface these questions by saying I've read threads for a bit and used the search function, but what I'm looking for is more of a discussion and/or argument from those of you with experience. Sorry in advance for the book that is to follow.

I will be building a garage soon, let's call it a "2 car detached", and it is a secondary storage and workshop garage. I have a 2 car attached and driveway right now, plus street parking available (if necessary) in a dense urban suburb of Chicago.

My goal in the shop/garage is both work and storage, in that I want to be able to freely work on vehicles, but also want to be able to use it to store vehicles (vertically) in the off-season (I race karts and do HPDE (high performance driving events) with cars. In Chicago this though means months of no racing, but wanting to store some vehicles and tinker with others.

My constraints are a postage stap sized plot of land, what the village will allow (I have to ask for a variance as it is), including height restrictions of 14' maximum exterior height to the building.

I am not cost limited in meeting my objectives, but neither do I have money to burn (not building a garage-mahal).

Here is what I am envisioning:

1. A 2 stall garage, each with a lift. I want to balance the size of the garage WxD with the fact that every foot of garage I have I lose a foot of yard, which is not unimportant to me. I only need 1 hard-core work lift (that should still be acceptable for storage), so I want to consider any combination of 1, 2, and 4 post lifts for storage and work flexibility.

2. My entry to the garage is from a public alley, so I will effectively have no driveway, but might need a 5' pad between the alley surface and my garage.

3. The reason I point this out is that I'm trying to figure out what my below-ground options are since I'm height limited.

4. As I'm limted in dimensions for 2 stalls, and I want lift(s) that can provide long-term storage as well as tools for work, I want to know what people think w/regards to different combos (like 1 2-post and 1 4-post, etc...).

I'm sorry for this long post, but I hope this discussion will help everyone (including me).

Thanks, discuss....

 

[Gregdoo]

You indicate you are willing to consider going underground....check out this http://www.hardingsteel.com/carlift.htm and look at the SC-2. I rented an apartment in Germany that had one of these and it was a great way to maximize space. You could store your less used vehicles on the lower level. Check out the videos on the web site too.

I'm sure it isn't cheap, but it would help you maximize the limited space available.

 

[PAToyota]

Going underground is definitely going to add to the costs. The other thing to consider is that fumes and vapors - think gasoline vapors - can collect in low places. That is why you don't see "pits" in garages anymore. Your village's codes people and your insurance agent may have something to say about these setups. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[[email protected]]

Gregdoo,

I saw that company's storage products before. It looks like those are far more storage oriented and not so conducive to working on the vehicles though.

PAToyota, thanks for the heads up on code and insurance.

I'm now wondering about perhaps, if not vehicle storage, having a basement in the garage. Would this be ridiculously expensive to build, particularly as I'm looking to put 2 lifts in?

 

[BoostAddiction]

Gregdoo,

I'm now wondering about perhaps, if not vehicle storage, having a basement in the garage. Would this be ridiculously expensive to build, particularly as I'm looking to put 2 lifts in?

Yeah, it will be ridiculously expensive to have a basement in the garage.

I'd just build the biggest garage you can get approval for, notwithstanding the lawn thing- you'll get over that, but it's hard to get over a garage you just built that is too small.

You need all that space for a two-post lift for working on the race car, with plenty of space around it. My bay with the lift is 15' wide, and I use all that space (with tools and cabinets, etc). You'll find it useful as well, and a reasonable minimum. I sometimes store may racecar on the 2-post lift with a smaller car (the S4) underneath. Works great, and I haven't hit my head yet as the lift is on max height.

The rest of the width (at least 10' wide) can be for regular car parking with a 4-post storage lift. You'll be able to store 4 cars in that case, which is not bad for a garage that is just slightly the "normal" two-car size.

That means a foorprint of around 25 or 26'w by 25-30 deep. The extra depth on the 4-post side will be useful for storage if you plan it well.

I've used that same elevator storage model at a hotel in Germany once for a couple of days. I liked being the bottom car as it was recessed into the bottom of the floor and I felt my Porsche was safe there (unless the hotel garage lost power, but I didn't want to think about that). The downside was that it took a little bit of time to get your car out. But I think it is way too spendy for a residential place where you specifically can't afford a Taj Mahal kind of garage.

The height limits are a problem as you will need (typically) 12' of interior space for most 2-post lifts. Even a 4-post storage lift with two regular cars will need a fair amount of height. I suggest that you consider a sloped roof (assuming it is compatible with your neighborhood) so you can maximize interior height.

Let the collective know what you decide!

 

[PAToyota]

Even a basement may be a problem unless there are no openings or doors from the "garage" to the "basement" in the building. The issue is that things like gasoline fumes are heavier than air and seek the lowest level - where they can collect and then something ignites them...

What is the exact wording of the height regulation? Most times the maximum height is an average of some sort and you get to go a bit higher the further you are from the setbacks. It can even be a sloping plane from the property line at a certain angle.

 

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Thanks for all the great input everyone. I'll definitely post the results of both decisions and the garage when they come.

As for the height, the question actually had me look online at the codebook (new feature for the village) and it seems they changed the regulation recently from my printed copy.

The wording is now "nor shall the overall height of the garage exceed sixteen feet (16') over grade at the front of the garage". I think based on this I have decent wiggle room depending on roof type and orientation.

 

[[email protected]]

Oh yeah, BoostAddiction,

What are your thoughts regarding a 4-post storage lift vs. a single post lift on the "storage side" of my garage?

My current thinking is a 2-post for work and off-season storage, and a single post for the other bay, which seems like it might give me more room to move about and for vehicle egress.

 

[PAToyota]

Here is a diagram that I was able to quickly find illustrating a "sky plane" from zoning regulations. What they give you is a height (like the 16' at the front) and then an angle so that you can have a taller building the further you are from the setback lines.

 

[BoostAddiction]

Oh yeah, BoostAddiction,

What are your thoughts regarding a 4-post storage lift vs. a single post lift on the "storage side" of my garage?

My current thinking is a 2-post for work and off-season storage, and a single post for the other bay, which seems like it might give me more room to move about and for vehicle egress.

The single post lifts are good for reducing the amount of posts around the car. The problems are that the foundation must be very strong to safely use one of these. I've sen pics of an installed single post lift in a retrofit that was leaning pretty heavily - pretty scary, unless you want to have a circus attraction. Since you are building your own garage, this will not be such a problem if you plan for it. For example, I doubled the nominal concrete thickness in my garage where I knew I was planning lift columns. Another problem with the one-post lifts is that they tend to dominate the side they are on. If you have a wall that doesn't need to be used as storage or ingress/egress and don't mind dedicating it to the lift, that is OK as well. But you are space limited and so in general, I don't think a single-post is a great solution, because even as a 4-post storage lift does take up more physical space, it can be worked around more easily (what I mean here is that a 1-post lift is better for every side except the one near the lift. That side is never going to be able to be easy to get access to). Finally, a 4-post lift can typically be fitted with casters to allow the lift to be moved around in the garage as needed. If you are planning a one-post, be sure you mount the lift on the "off side" of the car (i.e, the non-drivers side). This will make it easier to get in and out of the vehicle when parking it.

All this is not to say you can't be happy with a one-post, just that you should think about what really makes sense for your garage.

-Will