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Identify this Indestro socket set

Rileysan

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I posted pix in an Indestro thread under General tool discussion, but this needs to be in "Vintage Tool Discussion".

I found this set at a thrift store for $8.95. I had to search pretty hard to find the Indestro logo.

Anyone have a clue what vintage this is? Is it rare and worthy of restoration or should it get tossed as-is into the bottom of my tool chest?

Brian
 

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woody 73

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Brian Hi,

Not sure I understand the question "What vintage is this" you might have to word that one in a different way. Kind of sounds like you are talking about a bottle of wine and not a tool set.

Is it Rare ? again not really as they made a lot of those sets for the general public, but then again if someone needs that box/set/missing parts etc. to complete a full set it might be worth a few extra $$'s.

Is it worthy of restoration? Again that depends if you are a collector of those sets then yes, if not then no; but a vintage antique store would love to sell that set to other collectors.

As to should it get tossed into the black void of space at the bottom of my tool box, most guys would do that and because today most everything is metric that set would just collect dust.

I will leave you with a nice picture from the AA web-site for you to enjoy:

http://alloy-artifacts.org/Photos/tools/duro_12dr_socket_set_6pt_sears_f_cropped.jpg
 
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Rileysan

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Brian Hi,

Not sure I understand the question "What vintage is this" you might have to word that one in a different way. Kind of sounds like you are talking about a bottle of wine and not a tool set.
http://alloy-artifacts.org/Photos/tools/duro_12dr_socket_set_6pt_sears_f_cropped.jpg

Perhaps it IS a bottle of wine!?!

I will rephrase my question to use the vernacular of those who did not understand my question.

Can anyone identify this indestro set, by catalogue or part numer, and inform me what years the set was in production.

The scarcity of this set will determine what I do with it. If it is a common set with little to no value, I won't waste my time with it. If uncommon or rare, I will put some research and elbow grease into it.

My Google searches have turned up nothing of use to me and your post showing a smaller Duro/Sears set tells me nothing. Were they both made at the same time and by the same company?

Thanks for your help.

Brian
 
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Rileysan

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Looks similar to the 1536 set, but not exactly.

Agreed.

I was just reading the paragraph on that set because of this logo'

Here's the quote from AA on the Indestro 1536


Fig. 77 shows the Indestro decal on the lid of the No. 1536 set, though it's a bit difficult to read due to the glare from the finish. This decal is identical to the decal on an earlier socket set, examples from which were shown as the Early Indestro Sockets above, so apparently these sets were sold for some period of time.

One additional note regarding this set: of the tools in the set, only the ratchet handle had an identification mark, and that was only the patent number for the ratchet. If the decal with the Indestro logo case were lost or obliterated, or the tools dispersed from the case, it would be difficult to identify them as part of an Indestro set.

Although the sockets in this set are marked only with the size, the Indestro catalogs did assign model numbers to the series, similar to the numbering used for the Duro D-Trapezoid sockets described above. The 1937 Indestro catalog (p. 26) shows these sockets in a table "Master Sockets", with model numbers of the form 66xx where ** is the size in 32nds, e.g. 6624 for the 3/4 size. Similar to the case for Duro, the square and double-square sockets have a "-S" appended, e.g. 6624-S.

While we're mentioning the Indestro 1937 catalog, it's worth noting a statement from the catalog that may prove significant for a later discussion. In referring to the "Selected Steel Sockets", the catalog states: "The Sockets are accurately broached and the heat treating, tempering, and hardening is done under our own supervision, in our own factory ...". Note that the careful wording doesn't say that Indestro actually machined the socket blanks.
 

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Rileysan

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And this info on the ratchet.

Duro 672 1/2-Drive Ratchet Handles, Patent #1,798,481
In some cases the patent number may be the only identifying mark on a tool, perhaps to allow the tool to sell with various private brandings, or with no other identification at all.

An example of this is shown in Fig. 23, where we see three examples of the Duro model 672, an early ratchet handle. The ratchet at the top is marked "Duro Metal Products Co. 672" and "Patent Pending", and the one in the middle is similarly marked, except that it shows the actual patent #1,798,481.

The ratchet on the bottom is identical to the other two and shows the same patent number, but is marked with just "Chicago, U.S.A.", without a maker or model number.

The explanation is simple: the bottom ratchet came from an Indestro-branded socket set, and in order to maintain the separation of the brand names, Indestro simply omitted the Duro branding and model number.
 

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Rileysan

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Now that I got the ball rolling, I will keep posting what I've found. I can see that my box is the same used for the early Duro set from 1930-31 - not the one used for the Indestro 1536 set. The early Duro set had 6pt sockets whereas the 1536 set, as well as the set I have, use the 12pt sockets.

AA states the following:

During most of the 1920s sockets were generally made with six-point (or four-point) broachings, but by the late 1920s several companies had started producing 12-point (double-hex) sockets. By the early 1930s Duro/Indestro had begun producing 12-point sockets as well; although the exact date is not known, we do know that by 1931 Duro and Indestro socket sets were definitely available in 12-point broachings.

The first confirmation comes from the 1931 Sears catalog, which lists several "Durobilt" brand socket sets that are easily recognizable as Duro production. The high-end set featured chrome-nickel sockets in the standard 6-point broaching, but with 12-point sockets available at a slightly higher price.

Question: Was Indestro sold through the Sears catalogue or just Duro?

Brian
 

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four.cycle

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Earliest catalog I have is a 1948, so I'm not much help, but:
Indestro and Duro-Chrome became pretty much one and the same company at some point, although a date has not been clearly established. I believe "twertsy" (ToolArchives.com) was trying to ferret out the information on that one.
They both operated out of the same plant on North Kildare in Chicago.

Indestro manufactured private label for Montgomery Ward (Powr-Kraft), Western Auto (Wizard), and Sears (although I'm not clear on what "brand" they were stamped with.)

Nice set. Needs a good soaking in a bucket of vinegar and a good wipe-down.
 
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twertsy

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Earliest catalog I have is a 1948, so I'm not much help, but:
Indestro and Duro-Chrome became pretty much one and the same company at some point, although a date has not been clearly established. I believe "twertsy" (ToolArchives.com) was trying to ferret out the information on that one.
They both operated out of the same plant on North Kildare in Chicago.

Indestro manufactured private label for Montgomery Ward (Powr-Kraft), Western Auto (Wizard), and Sears (although I'm not clear on what "brand" they were stamped with.)

Nice set. Needs a good soaking in a bucket of vinegar and a good wipe-down.
Here's what I found yesterday. In 1933, Duro and Duro-Chrome were trademarked in Canada by Duro Metal Products Co. "Indestro" was trademarked by Indestro Manufacturing in '33 as well. All 3 were filed on the same date. Duro Metal Products Co. is listed as the owner of the Indestro trademark but it is unclear when that was added to the record. I found another source that said "at some point Indestro became Duro." Found some other stuff also and you can read it here: http://toolarchives.com/node/1250

Sent from my SM-P905V using Tapatalk
 

Private Lugnutz

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Rileysan,

As woody said, the lot might be valuable (but probably no more than $50 or so) to a collector who's really into Indestro and looking to complete a set; otherwise, not so much.

Twertsy,

Duro Metal Products Co. and Indestro Mfg Co. were recorded as separate companies with their own discrete manufacturers' codes and contracts in federal contract records during WWII. They were also recorded as separate companies in Army Ordnance Dept technical documents of that same era. They did have the same address (2649 North Kildare, Chicago 39, Ill., to be precise) in those same documents, and, as AA and many others have noted, some of their tools share the same manufacturing features, and some of their most collectible tools, those most coveted by WWII tool collectors, were actually marked "-D-I-" (implying Duro AND Indestro). But their relationship, as you have noted, was clearly not a simple matter of branding or a wholly owned subsidiary, as we see with so many others in that era.

I can cite bibliographical references and provide photos of the documents I cite above if you think you need them to help your case through the 1940's.
 

twertsy

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Rileysan,

As woody said, the lot might be valuable (but probably no more than $50 or so) to a collector who's really into Indestro and looking to complete a set; otherwise, not so much.

Twertsy,

Duro Metal Products Co. and Indestro Mfg Co. were recorded as separate companies with their own discrete manufacturers' codes and contracts in federal contract records during WWII. They were also recorded as separate companies in Army Ordnance Dept technical documents of that same era. They did have the same address (2649 North Kildare, Chicago 39, Ill., to be precise) in those same documents, and, as AA and many others have noted, some of their tools share the same manufacturing features, and some of their most collectible tools, those most coveted by WWII tool collectors, were actually marked "-D-I-" (implying Duro AND Indestro). But their relationship, as you have noted, was clearly not a simple matter of branding or a wholly owned subsidiary, as we see with so many others in that era.

I can cite bibliographical references and provide photos of the documents I cite above if you think you need them to help your case through the 1940's.

Yes sir, I'd love to have copies/scans of those. Any chance you could upload them as comments on my D/I research page?

I completely agree that they were separate entities, and it sounds like you have the docs to prove it. The first reference I have found regarding "subsidiary" is in 1974 when they begin referring to Indestro as the "Indestro Division" of Duro Metal Products Co. in all their advertisements. I can't prove it but I also don't believe the "D-I" stands for Duro-Indestro either............
 
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Rileysan

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Not that anyone asked, but I do have an opinion on the matter of "separate" corporations and/or company names.

Citing the company I work for as an example -

We are a privately owned corporation.

The Foundry is a corporation
The machine shop is a separate corp.
The pattern shop is a separate corp.
The property is owned by the children of the foundry owner and leased to the 3 corporations.

There are probably many reasons behind this but it is a common practice to have multiple corporations under a single holding company.

In this case, I would speculate that Duro/Indestro was marketing to different companies under different names to allow them to sell the same tools to competing companies. They could also be selling under different names to sell to different markets and/or to create different price structures similar to Craftsman/Dunlap (IE professional mechanics vs DIY mechanics).

Edit: I just remembered a summer job I had at a local dairy ~25+ years ago. They sold milk under the dairy name but also under the name of some melodious-sounding family farm. The "farm fresh" named milk sold for considerably more than the large dairy name even though it came from the same tank. I always thought it was deceptive but such is business ...

Brian
 
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Private Lugnutz

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They could also be selling under different names to sell to different markets and/or to create different price structures similar to Craftsman/Dunlap (IE professional mechanics vs DIY mechanics).
Dunlap was a brand, not a separately registered company. Other tool companies used different brands to distinguish types of tools (Blue-Point, for example). Again, not a separate corporate entity. And then we had early conglomeration, like New Britain, which also made and sold tools under the NONE BETTER name, and later, under the Husky name, after they bought out the Husky plant, all very similar in quality. Again, all one corporate entity. What distinguishes the Duro-Chrome and Indestro situation from these and all other examples I know of, is separate corporate entities apparently using the same manufacturing facilities and equipment.
 

Private Lugnutz

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I can't prove it but I also don't believe the "D-I" stands for Duro-Indestro either............
It's a tidy, handy theory, I can see why AA would suggest it, and, until I found these federal government documents, I subscribed to the theory myself, unquestioningly. But seeing so much evidence of them making, marking, and selling tools separately, as separate entities, including for the military, marking tools with a name that suggests dual or joint manufacturing in the 1940's just defies all the other evidence.

I'll try to upload the scans to your site.

If it doesn't work, here they are... Feel free to use them as you want.

The titles and dates of each reference are visible on the covers of each.

IMG_3094_zpsd337bd18.jpg


IMG_2954_zpsag2vsl1q.jpg


IMG_2942_zpsykckpyhg.jpg


IMG_4129_zps37ddaaa5.jpg


IMG_4131_zps3cb3850f.jpg
 
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four.cycle

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Private Lugnutz - thank you very much. very interesting.

(* to support a statement above: I recall Indestro price sheets in the late 1970s and early 1980's with the words "Duro Metal Products Co." printed on them somewhere.
Unfortunately the most recent document I have is a 1972 catalog, and it makes no mention of "Duro".
 

LesserSon

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If you do decide to put it together, you're going to want a speeder like this. I think it is an unmarked 1930s era Duro /Indestro from a kit like yours.
 

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