Identify what these outlets will be?

[mdameron]

I have got 8 outlet boxes in my garage in my house that's being built. The wires in each of them look slightly different so I'm having a having a hard time confirming which will be outlets and which will be something else (what?).

1 & 2 location
1 & 2 close up
One is light switch.... the other?

3 & 4 location
3 close up
4 close up
Don't know.

5 & 6 location
5 & 6 close up
One is power... the other is the door sensors?

7 location
7 close up
This is at tankless water heater. Pretty sure this is a standard outlet.

8 location
8 close up
Pretty sure this is the outlet for the sprinkler system. I'm most curious about this one because this is the one I'm for sure wanting to daisy-chain off of to put an outlet about 5' straight down for my workbench.

Thanks for all input!

 

[Alchymist]

Mayhaps just ask your electrician?

 

[mdameron]

Unfortunately my Spanish is limited to about a dozen or so different curse words.

 

[kiatech]

Don't hire illegals

 

[mdameron]

Unfortunately I live in Texas and make 5 figures.

 

[sands35]

You'll either need to trace the wires if the wall-board is still off or grab a multi-meter. Find the wires that go back to the main panel 1st. Take care if power is already on!

Check the wire gauges. Make sure that wires going into a box are the same size as wires going out (not always that simple - there could be 2 or more circuits in one box). Generally, lights are on 15 amp breakers - which means 14 wire. Outlets are on 20 amp breakers - 12 gauge wire. That's not always true - depends on your local inspector (if you have one).

 

[mdameron]

Thanks for the info, sands. I will check the wire gauges. I've been trying to ask the builder how many circuits will be in the garage but he says he won't know till the box "gets built". Really wish I had more electrical background so I could ask for certain things.

I know I won't have any 220v since that was an upcharge and I have no 220 equipment... yet.

 

[2ManyProjects]

I have got 8 outlet boxes in my garage in my house that's being built. The wires in each of them look slightly different so I'm having a having a hard time confirming which will be outlets and which will be something else (what?).

Before getting into the specifics, I have to wonder why you don't ask your electrician and/or G.C.? They represent "The Horse's Mouth", so to speak; all we can do is guess at it. Better yet, if this house is being built for you, why are the locations and functions of the electrical devices an unknown in the first place? You should be telling them what you want where; then their job is to make that happen.

Anyway, taking a shot at it...

1 & 2 location
1 & 2 close up
One is light switch.... the other?

I'd guess that one box is for a general-lighting switch, and the other for the door-opener controls.

3 & 4 location
3 close up
4 close up
Don't know.

The one to the lower left of the image appears to be in a position where I'd expect a standard duplex outlet Given the pull-down stairway, the one high-up on the wall is probably for a switch to control the attic lights.

5 & 6 location
5 & 6 close up
One is power... the other is the door sensors?

Initially, I would have guessed that the round one is for the door opener, and the two single-gang boxes for two duplex outlets (possibly independently switched) to feed overhead lights. But the wires inside the right hand (as viewed in the pic) single-gang box do indeed appear to be low-voltage stuff, such as would be used to feed the switching signal from the control box shown in #1/#2 above (and, probably indirectly, an outside keypad) to the opener. Perhaps only one outlet is supposed to feed all the overhead lights?

7 location
7 close up
This is at tankless water heater. Pretty sure this is a standard outlet.

Sounds like a reasonable guess.. What is the third pipe for?

8 location
8 close up
Pretty sure this is the outlet for the sprinkler system. I'm most curious about this one because this is the one I'm for sure wanting to daisy-chain off of to put an outlet about 5' straight down for my workbench.

You may or may not be right about the intended function of this box. It's kind'a hard to tell from the pic where it is located in the garage. The wires inside appear to be standard Romex, with the outer jacket stripped off. So...?

As for daisy-chaining your workbench off this, I'd have to recommend against that. The Romex in that box looks pretty skinny (I'd guess AWG 14); which means it's good for AT MOST a 15 Amp breaker. You start plugging any semi-serious power tools into that, and you'll realize its shortcomings in a hurry. Plus, depending on the sprinkler control box you wind up with, you MIGHT be looking at having to re-program it ever time you trip the breaker -- not fun.

Thanks for all input!

You're welcome. But like I said, it's only guesswork. Talk to your contractors.

I don't know what sort of work (if any) you intend to do in that garage. But were it me, I'd want AT LEAST three dedicated 20A circuits for tools and such (one of them more-or-less dedicated to the air compressor), plus at least one more for lighting. The lighting itself would be in three general categories:

1.) General-purpose "Walk Through" lighting, which would no doubt be controlled by switches near each door. You don't need a ton of light for this; but it should come on instantly (unlike some fluorescents, especially in cold weather), and be power-efficient even when rapidly cycled (again, unlike some fluorescents).

2.) The "Main" lighting for when you're actually trying to do something (such as work on your car, or whatever). "The more the better" tends to apply here; but the specifics are a topic worthy of their own discussion (and there have been MANY such discussions here already -- dig back into the older thereads).

3.) Dedicated "Task Lighting" at specific locations throughout the shop/garage, such as over your workbench (typically under the upper cabinets, if fitted), and at each semi-permanently installed power tool (such as your bench grinder, drill press, table saw, miter saw, etc.).

If you do plan to spend much time in the garage, you MAY also want to at least "rough in" lines for such things as a through-wall or window air conditioner and/or electric resistance heat of some sort.

Unfortunately, all of this stuff is the sort of thing you really want to plan out ahead of time, so that the wires can be run while the studs are open -- and it looks like we're a little late for that in your case.

Good luck!

 

[mdameron]

2manyprojects, thanks for that post! I didn't even think about the garage door opener switch... DUH!

I guess I will try to get in touch with the electrician or else have the builder be the go-between. I did get to point out the location of the one outlet the garage comes with, along with the one extra I paid for. The ones I'm asking for here are the 'standard equipment' so to speak that they do with every house.

I know the round box in the ceiling is for the lone incandescent fixture for the whole garage. As for where it gets its power? I don't really know and do need to know since I'm wanting to add about 32' of strip lighting in there (presumably off that fixture). I now am pretty sure one ceiling outlet is power (for the opener), and the other is for low voltage to the sensors and wall switch. I wonder if that ceiling outlet powers the fixture? Not sure what the common practice is on that.

 

[kamesama980]

Thanks for the info, sands. I will check the wire gauges. I've been trying to ask the builder how many circuits will be in the garage but he says he won't know till the box "gets built". Really wish I had more electrical background so I could ask for certain things.

I know I won't have any 220v since that was an upcharge and I have no 220 equipment... yet.

This would be a red flag for me. Stuff like that should be in the plans and there should be plans to contain this kind of info.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Wheres the blueprints for your house? I would check those. Now every circuit might not be labeled but at least they might be making it worthwhile to check!

 

[tfi racing]

This would be a red flag for me. Stuff like that should be in the plans and there should be plans to contain this kind of info.

Not likely any info on the plans,usually house drawings just show some suggestions for the electrical.Unless the new owner has paid for any extras,the work will be done to absolute minimum code and workmanship or whatever the local inspector will allow them to get away with.

 

[justsam]

Sounds like this is a new home in a development of several homes, where production is the name of the game if you want to stay in business and be price competitive. I suspect your interface to the builder is some project manager that has several homes under his watch. I've been where you are at!

I think you have figured out most of the wiring. Tankless will be gas fired, so a conventional 15/20 Amp circuit is fine for it. It should be on a dedicated circuit so if something else trips, you are not out of hot water. I know because I have one that is not on a dedicated circuit and got tripped and there were some cold showers until the issue was figured out!

I know these builders ding you $200 or so to add an outlet, but it would sure be nice to have at least one dedicated 20 Amp in your garage. If 240 is required one of those too. It all adds up, and I am sure you are paying for other cosmetic upgrades which they all offer and of course the models homes are full of.

Where is the breaker panel located. If it is in the garage it will make additional work much easier.

Are the pull down stairs in the garage? Is there other access to that attic space? Is there an issue with garage fumes getting into the attic space via the pull down, or a fire rating issue?

Congratulations on your new home and savor the moment of moving into a really new home. With all the decisions you have been making, take time to relax and have a Shiner!

 

[rancherbill]

I have got 8 outlet boxes in my garage in my house that's being built. The wires in each of them look slightly different so I'm having a having a hard time confirming which will be outlets and which will be something else (what?).

1 & 2 location
1 & 2 close up
One is light switch.... the other?

3 & 4 location
3 close up
4 close up
Don't know.

5 & 6 location
5 & 6 close up
One is power... the other is the door sensors?

7 location
7 close up
This is at tankless water heater. Pretty sure this is a standard outlet.

8 location
8 close up
Pretty sure this is the outlet for the sprinkler system. I'm most curious about this one because this is the one I'm for sure wanting to daisy-chain off of to put an outlet about 5' straight down for my workbench.

Thanks for all input!

one and two

one is probably for an external light and the other is a three way switch.

three and four

one is an outlet and the high one probably switches the power for the grage door openers for security.

five and six.

One is for the garage door opener and the other is for a trouble light.

....or I might be totally wrong.

 

[2ManyProjects]

Thanks for the info, sands. I will check the wire gauges. I've been trying to ask the builder how many circuits will be in the garage but he says he won't know till the box "gets built".

That makes no sense whatsoever. As others have pointed out, this should all be spec'd ahead of time, and called out on the blueprints. There may ("should"?) even be a separate set of plans just for the electrical (and another for plumbing, and so forth).

Really wish I had more electrical background so I could ask for certain things.

The problem you have now is, the drywall is already up. So adding/changing things at this point (or at any time in the future, for that matter) becomes a much more ambitious project. And besides, anything the contractor can call a "change order" will make everything else look dirt cheap by comparison!

I know I won't have any 220v since that was an upcharge and I have no 220 equipment... yet.

Yahbut... The time to put in the "220" (really 240V) service is during the initial construction, because it is MUCH easier (hence cheaper) to run those cables when the walls are all open.

2manyprojects, thanks for that post! I didn't even think about the garage door opener switch... DUH!

I guess I will try to get in touch with the electrician or else have the builder be the go-between.

The potential language barrier is not the only reason you want to deal with the builder/G.C.; more importantly, he is the ONLY person with whom you have a direct contractual relationship. As such, HE is ultimately responsible for everything that goes into that house. The electrician(s) (as well as the plumbers, roofers, framers rockers, etc.) are his employees/subcontractors, not yours; and by rights, they should not listen to you at all.

I did get to point out the location of the one outlet the garage comes with, along with the one extra I paid for. The ones I'm asking for here are the 'standard equipment' so to speak that they do with every house.

I realize that you're building/buying a brand new house; and that is probably a somewhat overwhelming project already, with far too many things to think about and keep track of than you likely feel comfortable with. And no doubt, you are also necessarily having to budget things very tightly. ("Might as well..." is the bane of cost-control!) But nonetheless, this really strikes me as a case of "Penny-Wise And Pound-Foolish" in action. As mentioned above, having the studs open during the initial contruction phase makes running cables *SO* much easier that you really want to take advantage of that and run EVERYTHING you could possibly ever want, and perhaps a few things you're not even sure you would ever want, simply because it can be done at maybe 20-30% of the cost to do it later -- perhaps even less, if all you do are the rough-ins, and leave the fixtures and such for later.

The last time I seriously remodeled one of my homes, in addition to the actual electrical work, I ran more than 3,000 feet of various low-voltage cables around to various places, for various potential future uses (and this was for a relatively tiny 1,400 sq.ft. beach house; a "normal" size house would have been maybe double that). Twenty years later, I have yet to use even 20% of those cables; and by now, most of them are obsolete (lots of it was multi-conductor twisted-pair for RS-232 serial communications -- I use Ethernet now). But I do NOT regret installing them. It took me all of a weekend, working at a "leisurely" pace, and maybe $150-200 in materials. Whoopie. I couldn't hire someone run ONE of those cables for $200 now, with the walls all closed up.

I know the round box in the ceiling is for the lone incandescent fixture for the whole garage. As for where it gets its power? I don't really know and do need to know since I'm wanting to add about 32' of strip lighting in there (presumably off that fixture).

More important than from where it gets its power is the capacity of the circuit. That in turn is determined by BOTH the wire gauge and the length of the run back to the panel. When in doubt, heavier is ALWAYS better: and it costs just pennies to upsize from, for example 14/2 Romex to 12/2 Romex. (Checking HomeDepot.com just as a handy reference -- probably NOT the cheapest source: A 1,000-foot spool of 14/2 is $183.55; in 12/2 that becomes $276.27 -- a difference of just a tad over nine cents per foot -- cheap at twice the price, IMCO.)

I now am pretty sure one ceiling outlet is power (for the opener), and the other is for low voltage to the sensors and wall switch. I wonder if that ceiling outlet powers the fixture? Not sure what the common practice is on that.

In all probability (or at least hopefully), you have one circuit dedicated to the opener, and another for the lighting. But the odds are these are both only "15A" circuits (builders -- particularly tract builders -- are notorious for saving those "few pennies" anywhere and everywhere they can; that's a large part of how they make their money). Which means the amount and type of lighting you can hang off that one lighting circuit may be somewhat limited. OTOH, the "32' of strip lighting" you mentioned is not likely to overtax even that minimal circuit, as long as it is reasonably efficient stuff.

More to the point, do you plan to ALWAYS turn on all 500+ watts (taking a guess, based on twin-tube T8 fixtures) of light every time you casually walk through the garage? And will this strip lighting be adequate for ALL your needs, including the previously mentioned task lighting? And what are you going to do about your power tools?

 

[mdameron]

First of all, thanks again for all the comments and suggestions.

Yes, we had more than enough "might as well" throughout the rest of the house that the garage electrical had to be on a backburner. In fact, the budget was too tight for electrical upgrades due to me upgrading to a 2.5 car garage w/ service door instead of 2.0 w/o service door. We focused on things that are impossible to add later (structural) rather than the "would be nice" things.

I want to have 4 8' T8 fixtures in the garage. I'm hoping the lights are on their own circuit so there is plenty of juice. My original plan is to have them all on a single switch, although I realize that is not ideal. As you can tell, I am a novice and have never installed switches. I have daisy chained light fixtures off existing fixtures, though, so that is what I was going to do.

I have another email out to the builder about garage circuits. He's usually on the ball at returning emails. I'll call him this evening if I don't get a reply. I'm hoping the garage lights are a circuit, the opener is a circuit, and the ~4 wall outlets are on a circuit. I could use a retractable cord on the opener's outlet to have essentially a dedicated circuit for any higher draw tools I may use.

This will be a very light duty garage. The biggest projects the garage will see the first couple months is the garage itself. Workbench construction, shelving construction, etc. If I can run the lights, miter/table saw, and drills at the same time I'll be good. I can count my power tools on one hand, sadly. Obviously would have been nice to future-proof but it just couldn't be done this go-around.

 

[RickP]

I want to have 4 8' T8 fixtures in the garage. I'm hoping the lights are on their own circuit so there is plenty of juice. My original plan is to have them all on a single switch, although I realize that is not ideal. As you can tell, I am a novice and have never installed switches. I have daisy chained light fixtures off existing fixtures, though, so that is what I was going to do.

Good luck communicating with your builder . . . sounds frustrating, to say the least. Even if you have all the garage lights on a single circuit, you might try to get them to wire up two 3-way switches. It's really nice to have a switch next to both your inside and outside doors.

 

[sands35]

oooh - I'd advise against doing electrical work while the build is still going on. That's a good way to run up massive "change order" charges.

Try and find a way to work with your builder without doing the work yourself.

A fall back would be to try and find a way to run a subpanel into the garage and do that work later. You will want a ~60 amp panel, if only so you can have expansion room later. 60 amps is good for everything but heavy stuff like a welder or machine tools. Not too expensive IF you can get a run into there. At least have the builder put in some conduit to an agreed to spot. Honestly, electrical isn't THAT hard.

 

[Alchymist]

oooh - I'd advise against doing electrical work while the build is still going on. That's a good way to run up massive "change order" charges.

Try and find a way to work with your builder without doing the work yourself.

A fall back would be to try and find a way to run a subpanel into the garage and do that work later. You will want a ~60 amp panel, if only so you can have expansion room later. 60 amps is good for everything but heavy stuff like a welder or machine tools. Not too expensive IF you can get a run into there. At least have the builder put in some conduit to an agreed to spot. Honestly, electrical isn't THAT hard.

One can run a pretty good sized welder or machine tool on a 60 amp circuit, and still have enough power for lights, etc. 60 amps @ 240 volts is 14KW. Typical 240 volt ac/dc welder might draw 30 amps, smaller mig and buzz boxes even less. Large air compressor might be straining things a bit, but 60 amps is plenty for the casual garage/shop.

I currently have 60 amp service, but wired for 80 with just a cb change, but as yet have not needed it. Run good sized air compressor, lathe, small mill, and numerous woodworking tools, band saw, table saw, shaper, planer, etc. No lack of power.

 

[Zeke]

I'd just let them finish. Doing additional electrical work once you know what your needs are isn't all that tough. For instance, let's say you're gonna have some pegboard or a wall system on one of those walls. You can add box extensions and run wire mold behind your system all you need.

 

[mdameron]

I'm not going to do any work while the build is going on except put conduit where the driveway is going to be.

 

[justsam]

I'm not going to do any work while the build is going on except put conduit where the driveway is going to be.

It may well be what you intend, but I would place a sleeve rather than trying
to figure future conduit size.

Use a 3 to 4 inch solid PVC pipe capped at ends. You can pass any future gas, water, electrical conduit through it.

 

[Zeke]

^^^^^^This.

 

[nehog]

... he says he won't know till the box "gets built". ...

Horse feathers. He/the electrician are working from a set of plans. Those plans have all the information about circuits, outlets, lights, etc. If that builder is so much of a hack that he isn't using plans then you really don't want to own that house.