If Snap on is not over-priced,

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

Methinks ToolGlutton is a plant...he just says dumb things to get a rise out of you guys.

Either that, or he really believes that Snap on should sell tools to him cheaper than to mechanics b/c he's not a professional!

 

[wrenchr]

Methinks ToolGlutton is a plant...he just says dumb things to get a rise out of you guys.

Either that, or he really believes that Snap on should sell tools to him cheaper than to mechanics b/c he's not a professional!

He confuse's the hell out of me and that tends to get a rise out of me!!!
Mean what you say, and say what you mean!!

 

[billymade]

Maybe he is a internet Troll?
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/What_is_a_troll?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll
(Troll): One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument

 

[Moose-LandTran]

I'm with Mr. Moose on this one.

sorry but you are wrong...
they put themselves in debt. they chose to buy the stuff.

people should stick to the rule of not buying what they cannot afford. how many people do you know that always have the cool car, the big house, name brand clothes....etc and you wonder how they do it on their income.
its because there finances are a 'house of cards'.

I'm sick of hearing that ****, whether it's in reference to tools, a house, or a car. If they're too f'in stupid to budget right and put themselves in debt they can't handle, too damn bad. It's not the lender's fault, they didn't force the ***** to sign on the dotted line.

People know what they're getting into when they take out a credit card, a mortgage, finance on a car or whatever. You know the deal, the terms and the consequences. You know what's going to happen when you spend money that's not yours, you know what's going to happen if you don't pay it back when you're meant to.

I feel no sympathy for people who have to face the consequences of getting themselves into debt, they knew EXACTLY what they were getting into when they signed the contract.

If i don't pay my credit card, and the bailiffs turn up to take my box as payment, i'll deserve it. I knew the deal when i signed the contract, i'll stick to that.

I buy Snap-On because the quality is the best. I have a Jeep that I'm rebuilding and they are full of Torx bolts that have shredded the cheaper Craftsman bits, and many lesser ones. Only once have I had to replace a SO torx bit.

I guess Moose (like many others here) is a mechanic himself, or he owns a shop. It is understandable that they have a high expectation on quality of tools. Well, if you are a DIYer (like me), it is a different story.

It's a lot different. If your $9.99 Craftsman ratchet breaks when you're fixing your car, you go to Sears and get another one. I can't afford for my tools to break when i'm using them, it's downtime and it costs me money. I can't drop what i'm doing and leave work to get a replacement, so i buy tools that i know can handle what i put them through. If my Snap-on ratchet costs me 7 times what a Craftsman costs me, so be it. That reliability is worth the cost.

Another thing is the strength of the tools, if you work a desk job, and during your weekend your ratchet strips and you crack your knuckles, you can carry on your job fine. I can't, if i break knuckles i can't work, and therefore i can't make any money. The tool's quality is more than skin-deep, your Craftsman may feel like my Snap-on, but it won't hold up like my Snap-on.

I have a dream! From January 2009, Snap on will offer 50% off to all buyers who are not a professional. In return the tools only have a one year warranty.

sorry but the 'dream' is not going to happen. and I do not want my SO tools for 1/2 off with only a one year warranty. lifetime for me and I will buy what I can afford when I need it.

If that dream were to come true, you'd be happy at first with your saving. Once that novelty had worn off it'd be "I dream of 50% off with a lifetime warranty."

Aside from that, why should people like me (ie the professionals) be penalised by paying the full 100% for using our tools to make a living, when driveway mechanics and weekenders should pay 50%? If anything, it should work like a tax rebate, and those using their tools to earn should pay a reduced fee.

I don't care whether i pay the same as the guy on the street, same tool.

 

[ToolGlutton]

Sorry guys, I did not realize that my replies made you upset. I was trying to be polite by replying your post.

BTW, let me repeat again. I said many days ago that spending money makes me happy (I said I love Snap on also because of their high price). I was only joking. Who wants to throw their money?

Let me know if you are still confused.

He confuse's the hell out of me and that tends to get a rise out of me!!!
Mean what you say, and say what you mean!!

 

[ToolGlutton]

Hi Moose,

Well said!

But Snap on warranty is not that important to me. I never broke any Snap on so far.

People know what they're getting into when they take out a credit card, a mortgage, finance on a car or whatever. You know the deal, the terms and the consequences. You know what's going to happen when you spend money that's not yours, you know what's going to happen if you don't pay it back when you're meant to.

I feel no sympathy for people who have to face the consequences of getting themselves into debt, they knew EXACTLY what they were getting into when they signed the contract.

If i don't pay my credit card, and the bailiffs turn up to take my box as payment, i'll deserve it. I knew the deal when i signed the contract, i'll stick to that.






It's a lot different. If your $9.99 Craftsman ratchet breaks when you're fixing your car, you go to Sears and get another one. I can't afford for my tools to break when i'm using them, it's downtime and it costs me money. I can't drop what i'm doing and leave work to get a replacement, so i buy tools that i know can handle what i put them through. If my Snap-on ratchet costs me 7 times what a Craftsman costs me, so be it. That reliability is worth the cost.

Another thing is the strength of the tools, if you work a desk job, and during your weekend your ratchet strips and you crack your knuckles, you can carry on your job fine. I can't, if i break knuckles i can't work, and therefore i can't make any money. The tool's quality is more than skin-deep, your Craftsman may feel like my Snap-on, but it won't hold up like my Snap-on.






If that dream were to come true, you'd be happy at first with your saving. Once that novelty had worn off it'd be "I dream of 50% off with a lifetime warranty."

Aside from that, why should people like me (ie the professionals) be penalised by paying the full 100% for using our tools to make a living, when driveway mechanics and weekenders should pay 50%? If anything, it should work like a tax rebate, and those using their tools to earn should pay a reduced fee.

I don't care whether i pay the same as the guy on the street, same tool.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I like SO tools, I like them even better cheap or free! Don't need new, or the high price!

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Same here. I like my Snap-on all-round. Expensive, cheap, free, old, new, borrowed or blue i like them all the same.


Ok, the borrowed was a joke, but i do love 'em all.

 

[wrenchr]

Sorry guys, I did not realize that my replies made you upset. I was trying to be polite by replying your post.

BTW, let me repeat again. I said many days ago that spending money makes me happy (I said I love Snap on also because of their high price). I was only joking. Who wants to throw their money?

Let me know if you are still confused.

The inproper use of phrase's is annoying!!
"Who wants to throw their money?"
Who want's to throw their money away.
Now I'm messing with you!!!

 

[kythri]

Guys, I know I'm just as guilty as anyone else of fanning the flames of Snap-On vs. Craftsman debates and all of their deriviatives, but I've got to point out - for all of you Snap-On fans that are "sick and tired" of people trying to suggest that Snap-On isn't as good as it is, or is overpriced, etc, ya'll are just as guilty as trying to prove to world+dog that Snap-On is better than fried gold.

 

[wrenchr]

Guys, I know I'm just as guilty as anyone else of fanning the flames of Snap-On vs. Craftsman debates and all of their deriviatives, but I've got to point out - for all of you Snap-On fans that are "sick and tired" of people trying to suggest that Snap-On isn't as good as it is, or is overpriced, etc, ya'll are just as guilty as trying to prove to world+dog that Snap-On is better than fried gold.

Not fried gold just Craftsman!!!!

 

[Merkava_4]

People who say Snap-on tools are too expensive have never turned wrenches long enough to know the difference; plain and simple.

 

[speed bump]

People who say Snap-on tools are too expensive have never turned wrenches long enough to know the difference; plain and simple.

True once you use tools all the time price becomes less important. I just don't see the advantage to Snap on over other brands such as Proto, Wright, Williams, Armstrong or Napa.

 

[ovilla]

I have a dream! From January 2009, Snap on will offer 50% off to all buyers who are not a professional. In return the tools only have a one year warranty.


Is this for real? Sorry, I've been thinking of buying my first SO ratchet and have been looking at their 72 tooth model. I can definitely wait until 09' if I have to. Plus, I'm not a professional and rarely break things anyway.

 

[SCguy]

Do you have to be a full time student to get this discount? Because I just started tech school part time, and a discount would help me out a lot.

RD

 

[CAT_serviceman927]

Do you have to be a full time student to get this discount? Because I just started tech school part time, and a discount would help me out a lot.

RD

Yes you have to be full-time according to the Snap-On student site. You could ask your teachers at the school for the number to their Snap-On industrial rep. and give him a call to see if they could make an exception. I am in school full-time currently and this has been a big help. You can't get everything discounted, but they do have a relatively broad selection to choose from. I have gotten quite a bit from the program.

Here is the link to the Snap-On SEP(Student Excellence Program) website:

https://buy1.snapon.com/sep/

https://buy1.snapon.com/sep/about.aspx (Info about the program.)

 

[eschoendorff]

The thing is that Snap on put many mechanics in debt even before they start to make money. Some of them have to leave this business, because they can not get over this.

I saw many stories like this on Craigslist. They have to sell their tools to pay off their debt to Snap on.

Where do you get this stuff????

It is the same as going to a 4 year university and graduating with $40,000 in student loans - then trying to get a job.

Seriously, why even start these whiny threads? It is what it is and even if everyone on this board decided to boycott Snap On - do you really think that they'd care? Not even a bump on the radar.

Seriously, man. Geez... where's Moose? I'm gonna go hang with him...

 

[CAT_serviceman927]

Where do you get this stuff????

It is the same as going to a 4 year university and graduating with $40,000 in student loans - then trying to get a job.

Seriously, why even start these whiny threads? It is what it is and even if everyone on this board decided to boycott Snap On - do you really think that they'd care? Not even a bump on the radar.

Seriously, man. Geez... where's Moose? I'm gonna go hang with him...

+1

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

Where do you get this stuff????

It is the same as going to a 4 year university and graduating with $40,000 in student loans - then trying to get a job.

Seriously, why even start these whiny threads? It is what it is and even if everyone on this board decided to boycott Snap On - do you really think that they'd care? Not even a bump on the radar.

Seriously, man. Geez... where's Moose? I'm gonna go hang with him...

Amen, brother, amen. I don't get all the hate towards certain makes of tools and such from certain people on this board...and they know who they are. I
f you think Snap On is overpriced, don't buy them at that price...get them used! That's what I do...and it's worked out quite well.


And thanks to Billymade for the link to the article about Snap On in an earlier post on this thread....interesting stuff!

 

[AutoTech]

People who say Snap-on tools are too expensive have never turned wrenches long enough to know the difference; plain and simple.

Well I've been wrenching professionally for 20 years now. There are some tools that I will only buy snap on. Cordless impacts, air tools, impact swivel sockets, screwdrivers. As far as sockets, wrenches, and ratchets go I think there are cheaper alternatives that are just as good if not better than snappie! I'll put my 1/2 drive long handle williams super ratchet up against any snap on you have! For instance a buddy of mine was changing struts on a buick lesaber in his yard, has no air compressor. He was trying to break loose the bolts (that were rusted in very badly) that bolt the strut to the spindle. My cordless wouldn't begin to break them loose, only breaker bar he had was the HF and of course he broke it. Next his snap on 1/2 ratchet with 3 feet of pipe and snap he destroyed it, my williams super ratchet broke all 4 bolts loose and didn't cost near as much as his shiny snap on. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with your guys liking snap on they are great tools but there are other brands of tools that are just as good.

 

[spoolin spec v]

Well I've been wrenching professionally for 20 years now. There are some tools that I will only buy snap on. Cordless impacts, air tools, impact swivel sockets, screwdrivers. As far as sockets, wrenches, and ratchets go I think there are cheaper alternatives that are just as good if not better than snappie! I'll put my 1/2 drive long handle williams super ratchet up against any snap on you have! For instance a buddy of mine was changing struts on a buick lesaber in his yard, has no air compressor. He was trying to break loose the bolts (that were rusted in very badly) that bolt the strut to the spindle. My cordless wouldn't begin to break them loose, only breaker bar he had was the HF and of course he broke it. Next his snap on 1/2 ratchet with 3 feet of pipe and snap he destroyed it, my williams super ratchet broke all 4 bolts loose and didn't cost near as much as his shiny snap on. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with your guys liking snap on they are great tools but there are other brands of tools that are just as good.

I think this is a VERY VERY VERY good point, Some items, you can go a bit cheaper on, but alot of items, you need to have good quailty, and its nice to have a warrenty on it, so if it does break, its taken care of whenver the truck guy comes.

 

[Fedwrench]

New auto techs need tools after finishing tech school and all of the Tool Truck brands, plus Napa, and even Sears has a student tool program. It would be hard to land a job without at least a basic assortment of tools.
Auto techs are people too and as people, they make financial planning errors just like everyone else. That is not the tool companies fault, it may be a result of poor home training.
I know the my tool is better than your tool threads and the your tool is too expensive threads will never stop but, can't we move past it? Why can't everyone buy what they feel is the best they can afford and be happy with it? Solicit ideas on what may be the best type of tool for a job, everyone can provide honest input based on what works for them but, list reasons other than a brand name and price.
Despite all of the arguing, there isn't just one perfect tool brand.

 

[Merkava_4]

For instance a buddy of mine was changing struts on a buick lesaber in his yard, has no air compressor. He was trying to break loose the bolts (that were rusted in very badly) that bolt the strut to the spindle. My cordless wouldn't begin to break them loose, only breaker bar he had was the HF and of course he broke it.

Those bolts don't unthread; they're splined into the spindle; you have to drive them out with a large drift punch; the nuts however, unthread just fine.

 

[AutoTech]

Those bolts don't unthread; they're splined into the spindle; you have to drive them out with a large drift punch; the nuts however, unthread just fine.

ok let me rephrase that then the nuts were rusted on there and your precious snap on ratchets wouldn't budge them just crumpled under load, williams held up just fine, is that better for ya!!!!

 

[Ducroix]

Just signed up for the student excellence program yesterday and cant wait

 

[Merkava_4]

ok let me rephrase that then the nuts were rusted on there and your precious snap on ratchets wouldn't budge them just crumpled under load, williams held up just fine, is that better for ya!!!!

LOL!

 

[spoolin spec v]

Just signed up for the student excellence program yesterday and cant wait

Did you go to UTI in orlando? or is there a tech school in tampa?

 

[AutoTech]

LOL!

Merkava I appologize for being rude it's not worth arguing about dude! Have a great weekend!

 

[Ducroix]

Did you go to UTI in orlando? or is there a tech school in tampa?

Seminole Community College GM ASEP, just northeast of downtown Orlando in Sanford

 

[MarkH]

ok let me rephrase that then the nuts were rusted on there and your precious snap on ratchets wouldn't budge them just crumpled under load, williams held up just fine, is that better for ya!!!!

LOL Since this states old Snap Ons will out last the new ones.

Still on the serious side, for many the tools may look high priced for the top brands. But in business you do not buy what does not make you money. For many of our tools we do not use Snap on. We find Wright, Proto and some Craftsman work best, especially in farm machines tool boxes. For what we pay the value is right. It was also right for the Snap on, Cornwell, we have.

Take the day a combine went down. I was handed an elcheapo impact that did not even budge anything. A two hour drive to the shop and back to get something that worked. 300 bushel an acre corn, rain - snow coming, the machine in question filled its 300 bushel hopper every 10 - 15 minutes. Cheap was not a bargain that day even with corn at $3 a bushel then. So it is the business decisions like that drive the price paid.

That did not include the damage when a mower conditioner hit the damm piece of junk about 2 years later. I had pitched elcheapo about 100 yards into the alfalfa field in a slightly frustrated mood. I think that elcheapo cost me enough to buy a gross of Snap on impacts or more.

 

[Vinko]

Correct. The student programs also circumvent the dealer, and sell direct. The dealer has to make a living. Their overhead is very expensive, the truck costs, fuel, and dont think their work day ends when their route is over. When they have to inventory and organize the truck daily, thats not time they are at stops making money.

By the time you factor in overhead, their markup is maybe 25-30%. Just to put it into perspective, our companies markup on most electronics we instal is 65%, not including instal labor. The Snap on dealers are not getting rich, trust me.

My dealer told me last week he makes "about" 30% or so profit. That's net, I'm pretty sure. He also remarked that for the first time, it was hard to find out where the hell his money was going. He's got about less than 3% write-offs from deadbeats. He's doing great sales for his area. I think the top in his area, actually. One thing that kills him, he claims, is warranty stuff. About 90% is from tool misuse. He takes the stuff, throws it in the drawer and in 2 or 3 months, when he sends it into Snap On, get's a "credit" toward future purchases. He also loses out on potential sales because he has to replace a busted wrench with a new one, for which he was paid. That's got to ****, esp. when the guy who returns it has abused it.

 

[Vinko]

True once you use tools all the time price becomes less important. I just don't see the advantage to Snap on over other brands such as Proto, Wright, Williams, Armstrong or Napa.

I wish someone could really argue for the main qualitative differences among say, Proto Professional, Snap, and Armstrong if they were to take, say the 20 most commonly used tools, or sets of tools, as the barometer. I bet the difference between these three high-end brands wouldn't be as different as some would think. I suppose it depends on the application, however.

 

[Vinko]

Next his snap on 1/2 ratchet with 3 feet of pipe and snap he destroyed it,

Does this even count as a comparison? (Just asking). Improper use of tool, I'd think.

 

[nissan_crawler]

Guys, I know I'm just as guilty as anyone else of fanning the flames of Snap-On vs. Craftsman debates and all of their deriviatives, but I've got to point out - for all of you Snap-On fans that are "sick and tired" of people trying to suggest that Snap-On isn't as good as it is, or is overpriced, etc, ya'll are just as guilty as trying to prove to world+dog that Snap-On is better than fried gold.

Nobody has tried to say Snap-On is better than fried gold (except perhaps Merkava). However, to say Craftsman has the same quality is ridiculous. That's coming from somebody with Craftsman sockets and Craftsman pro wrenches that are used professionally. Hell, I used Craftsman screwdrivers for 5 years.

People who say Snap-on tools are too expensive have never turned wrenches long enough to know the difference; plain and simple.

Agreed.

True once you use tools all the time price becomes less important. I just don't see the advantage to Snap on over other brands such as Proto, Wright, Williams, Armstrong or Napa.

Let me know when the Proto/Wright/Williams/Armstrong/Napa tool truck will swing by work and drop off a tool after I call them about one breaking... That's what I thought.

My cordless wouldn't begin to break them loose, only breaker bar he had was the HF and of course he broke it. Next his snap on 1/2 ratchet with 3 feet of pipe and snap he destroyed it, my williams super ratchet broke all 4 bolts loose and didn't cost near as much as his shiny snap on. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with your guys liking snap on they are great tools but there are other brands of tools that are just as good.

Sounds like both of you were dumb and using the wrong tool. As for a test, try 10 Snap-On ratchets, and 10 Williams ratchets, and it might be a fair comparison.

Also, I've broken a fair amount of wrenches on a bolt, only to find out they were finger tight then because they were loosened up by the wrench breaking. Saying yours did it after breaking two other tools on it doesn't mean much.

Is it better? Maybe. That "test" doesn't prove a damn thing, though.

Me, I would've just broken out my 24" Mac breaker bar and cheater pipe with an impact socket and gave her hell. If that didn't work, I would've used Kroil and heated them up, rather than reefing harder.

 

[toolfreak]

I don't see why people here can't grasp the fact that the warranty is a big reason for buying snap on. Also, convenience is another reason, after working 10 or 12 hours I really don't want to mess with trying to get a proto, williams, s&k or any other brand tool that there is no place local that sells them. Not to mention those brands probably can't have a replacement that day or the next week worst case scenario.

 

[nissan_crawler]

Here's something I posted in another thread that applies here, too:

Try a 72 tooth or 80 tooth Snap-On in a tight space, compared to Craftsman 36 or 60. Plain and simple, you're screwed. The Craftsman won't catch a tooth, the Snap-0n will. Even if the Craftsman can catch a tooth, when you grab a tooth every 6* vs every 4.5*, if you have an 11* swing, you can move the craftsman 6* at a time, the Snap-On moved 9* at a time.

Now, say you have 10 threads to get the nut off. You move the Craftsman ratchet 600 times, vs. the Snap-On's 450 times. Now say you have 3 more bolts to do. By the time they're out, you will be DAMN happy to have moved that ratchet 600 fewer times. Unrealistic? Not really, I see this scenario several times a week.

 

[hamburglar]

I don't see why people here can't grasp the fact that the warranty is a big reason for buying snap on. .

Well, I certainly can't say that everyone is stupid, although that is the implication.

In my case, I:

a) only work on (what are now) old cars, and thus don't have to track down much of anything .and.
b) don't break tools.

But then, I don't do any of this for a living or have to deal with anything post-1970 or so.

I sincerely apologize to those who need the Snap On warranty due to their professional needs.

 

[Detroit Diesel Man]

People know what they're getting into when they take out a credit card, a mortgage, finance on a car or whatever. You know the deal, the terms and the consequences. You know what's going to happen when you spend money that's not yours, you know what's going to happen if you don't pay it back when you're meant to.

I feel no sympathy for people who have to face the consequences of getting themselves into debt, they knew EXACTLY what they were getting into when they signed the contract.

If i don't pay my credit card, and the bailiffs turn up to take my box as payment, i'll deserve it. I knew the deal when i signed the contract, i'll stick to that.






It's a lot different. If your $9.99 Craftsman ratchet breaks when you're fixing your car, you go to Sears and get another one. I can't afford for my tools to break when i'm using them, it's downtime and it costs me money. I can't drop what i'm doing and leave work to get a replacement, so i buy tools that i know can handle what i put them through. If my Snap-on ratchet costs me 7 times what a Craftsman costs me, so be it. That reliability is worth the cost.

Another thing is the strength of the tools, if you work a desk job, and during your weekend your ratchet strips and you crack your knuckles, you can carry on your job fine. I can't, if i break knuckles i can't work, and therefore i can't make any money. The tool's quality is more than skin-deep, your Craftsman may feel like my Snap-on, but it won't hold up like my Snap-on.








If that dream were to come true, you'd be happy at first with your saving. Once that novelty had worn off it'd be "I dream of 50% off with a lifetime warranty."

Aside from that, why should people like me (ie the professionals) be penalised by paying the full 100% for using our tools to make a living, when driveway mechanics and weekenders should pay 50%? If anything, it should work like a tax rebate, and those using their tools to earn should pay a reduced fee.

I don't care whether i pay the same as the guy on the street, same tool.

I'm with Moose on this one too..I too cant affors to have my Tools break and go running off to sears to have it replaced...the Quality of SO is undeniable and the service is as well...I dont have the time nor the want to go to sears and deal with the idiots behind the counter who dont know the difference between a Box wrench and an Open-end..Quality, Convienience,Service is what SO sells with their tools thats why I buy them and always will.

 

[Vinko]

The article that someone posted earlier in this thread (which was a nice write-up by the way), mentioned that Snap at opened a retail store in New Mexico, with plans to open one up in California and elsewhere. I take it those plans fell through?

 

[Kevin54]

I understand the quality and popularity of Snap On hence the price. What I don't understand is the hundreds of Snap On boxes out there that are "Bought new and never used" and now must sell for approximately 50% of the original cost. Why would a person spend $6000 for a new box, only to sell it for the amazing price of $3000 a year later? Almost every one I have seen is that way. If I buy a new box, I am going to use it.