If tool makers had made wrenches and sockets

[expfcwintergreen]

in every /32 of an inch up to 1" would there be a need for metric tools of less than an inch? What would be the biggest difference between a mm size and a 32nd of an inch? I mostly work on cars, so I don't think in excess of 1 inch often.

Math is my weakest subject. If the world were waiting on me to figure out this kind of thing, we would be using stones for hammers, living in grass huts, and chimpanzees would be in charge (chimps would be an improvement over some of our politicians).

 

[mmack66]

Yep.

 

[expfcwintergreen]

I was looking at a conversion chart, and it seems that 6mm is .016 bigger than 7/32 and .014 less than 1/4. That seems like a big difference to me. Is it enough that it is more than the built in tolerance of tools to make sure they will fit over the appropriate size nut or bolt?

 

[ibedayank]

add Whitworth British cycle standard to this also

 

[Murphy4570]

They would have made them in /64ths increments. And yes, such sockets have been made.

 

[Gmonkee]

For a decade the British inch an the American inch were not even the same. That was fixed in the early 1950's. Standards of measure have been changed many times through human history and nearly always driven by international trade.

Metric is the accepted standard in most of the world for most things. There are a multitude of small exceptions everywhere but if any gov wants international trade they have to at least partially embrace metric.

The old SAE standards and /32 sizes stems from sloppy hardware standards during the industrial revolution. Sometimes you needed a under/oversized tool to get that bolt out. With square bolts 1/32" would never risk stripping a fastener.
Every maker of anything that used fasteners seemed to have his own benchmark of what is properly sized.

That was pretty much 'fixed' finally in the late 1930's for the WWII war drive production. You want a contract you have to use SAE. End of story. A lot of tool and vehicle makers wanted those fat contracts too. In 1946 congress passed law making SAE the accepted standard in the states.
Toolmakers all seemed to comply ceasing production of the older standards.

 

[HaroRider]

I don't know why we just don't stop being stubborn and join the rest of the world with their metric system..

 

[jim1987]

I don't know why we just don't stop being stubborn and join the rest of the world with their metric system..

Agreed. I use metric for everytbing. With 9/16 close to 14, 5/8 close to 16, 3/4 close to 19, 7/8 close to... 22? 1" close to 25, good enough for me. Saw still stays in my box. Never know.

 

[Bondo]

I don't know why we just don't stop being stubborn and join the rest of the world with their metric system..

Ayuh,.... If that woulda happened back in 1963, when I was 1st told We'd(as a nation) be goin' metric, in less than 10 years,....

I'd own 1/2 as many tools, as I do today,.....

 

[Gmonkee]

The luddites among us won't willingly change. But they have already been using metric in many aspects of life for decades. Soda in 500ml bottles, liters of products because the same is not packaged in imperial anymore.... Dual marked weights with metric weight being the even measure mean he bought a kilo of whatever, not 2 lbs.

Our generation can resist a bit more thinking we'll get away with it but your kids are learning now and this exposure is the change. Your grandkids won't understand why milk is marked 4 liters/ .953 gallons. 4 liters makes sense but why the odd quantity in gallons?
When your gasoline in the states changes from gallons to liters like the rest of the world then you know someone is serious about making it official. Pretty much every other consumer product is at least dual marked already.

 

[mmack66]

Ayuh,.... If that woulda happened back in 1963, when I was 1st told We'd(as a nation) be goin' metric, in less than 10 years,....

I'd own 1/2 as many tools, as I do today,.....

WTF is ayuh, and why do you start everyone of your posts with it?

 

[CNGsaves]

It's not just metric system . . . . now there's Torx and some sort of "super" Torx.

Car makers always looking for ways to save a nickel or screw the customer. By now we SHOULD have had standardized sizing (between either SAE or metric), but carmakers REFUSE to do that and slip in new fastener heads all the time.

They don't want you removing MAF sensor, then put a hokey fastener on it. Idler pulley with strange Torx fastener encourages consumer to NOT try the repair. This shenanigans leads more customers to go to the dealership for service for an overpriced part/service.

It's called "Engineered Failure" profit cycle !!!

Several GJ threads on this topic already . . . . likely hundreds if you use Google to search deep into GJ.

> > > > Google > > > > metric vs SAE site:garagejournal.com

 

[CNGsaves]

Case in point . . . . . . WHY THE FAWK . . . does 2.2 ltr Chevy engines
. . . .
. . . . . . . . need oil filter cap with 32 mm fastener ???????

 

[rdn2blazer]

Just need sockets in every thousandths, then we'd be fine without metrics.

 

[LB-1911]

WTF is ayuh, and why do you start everyone of your posts with it?

It is his shtick* -

“Ayuh”: America’s Oddest “Yes”
more @
http://dialectblog.com/2011/04/14/ayuh-americas-oddest-yes/


*In common usage, the word shtick has also come to mean any talent, style, habit, or other eccentricity for which a person is particularly well-known, even if not intended for comedic purposes. For example, a person who is known locally for his or her ability to eat dozens of hot dogs quickly might say that it was their shtick.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shtick

 

[Gmonkee]

Case in point . . . . . . WHY THE FAWK . . . does 2.2 ltr Chevy engines
. . . .
. . . . . . . . need oil filter cap with 32 mm fastener ???????

So I can use my 3/4 Whitworth wrench to remove it probably. That was really nice of them to do that for me.

 

[Adam.C]

I don't know why we just don't stop being stubborn and join the rest of the world with their metric system..

Oh please. Wake up. Do you really think the US fortune 500 is simply stubborn? What an arrogant insult.

Metric aerospace and military grade hardware is like 3X more expensive than SAE. Why? Because nearly all of it is made in the USA by high precision tools. Think of the lead screws on lathes that cut threads for example? Should we change all those out? Who wants to pay for that?

I worked on a project where we tried to switch to metric. What an unbelievable fiasco. We wasted so much money. If an engineer decides to switch his design to metric, his computer system changes, analysis software has to change, parts ordering, warehousing (because part sizes come automatically from CAD), everyone up and downstream has to change. The machine shop suddenly needs metric drills, metric cutters, metric inspection equipment. And we're not talking about digital calipers here. The shop needs metric tools to assemble.

The car companies are changing because they are world companies with parts coming from all over and it is easier for us to change here than to ask them to change. Europe and Japan are metric is because the USA bought them all new everything after WW2, thanks very much. If you are starting over, metric makes sense. Otherwise, the cost of a (meaningless) unit switch to an industrialized nation, let alone the USA, is astronomical.

And at the end of the day, you will never get 20mm plywood. You'll get 19mm plywood that is really 3/4" for twice the price of the old 3/4" sheets.

 

[Tronyadorable]

WTF is ayuh, and why do you start everyone of your posts with it?

It's like Oye for Kanookianz

 

[rice rocket]

Oh please. Wake up. Do you really think the US fortune 500 is simply stubborn? What an arrogant insult.

Metric aerospace and military grade hardware is like 3X more expensive than SAE. Why? Because nearly all of it is made in the USA by high precision tools. Think of the lead screws on lathes that cut threads for example? Should we change all those out? Who wants to pay for that?

Idunno, but we'd have a several hundred million dollar Mars lander still intact if we had changed over.

This is really a chicken or the egg argument. The longer we keep putting it off, the more expensive it's going to get.

 

[FMC1959]

It's like Oye for Kanookianz

You're back; third time's the charm? (Or is it more than 3 already?)

 

[sailah]

WTF is ayuh, and why do you start everyone of your posts with it?

As a mainah I say ayuh probably more than I should admit. Comes out more frequently when I smell bait boxes and 3 footers with grass growing through them.

It's just a way of acknowledgment spoken usually between two men looking at something that is no longer working.

"Hey earl, your truck busted?"

"Ayuh, she sh*t the bed"

 

[jjjrmx5]

I mostly work on cars, so I don't think in excess of 1 inch often.

.

This answered everything I need to know.

If you say that you have never travelled outside of the United States, that gets you into the "bonus round".


Fractional is fractional.
Metric is metric.

It's not a mfg. thing. It;s a legislature and gov't thing.
Duh.

 

[hangfirew8]

Ayuh,.... If that woulda happened back in 1963, when I was 1st told We'd(as a nation) be goin' metric, in less than 10 years,....

I'd own 1/2 as many tools, as I do today,.....

Yeah in school they refused to teach us SAE as we had moved into the Metric age. When I graduated I bought myself a brand new set of Craftsman Metric wrenches... which went unused for the next 2 decades because we owned domestic vehicles.

-HF

 

[Nick Danger]

Ayuh,.... If that woulda happened back in 1963, when I was 1st told We'd(as a nation) be goin' metric, in less than 10 years,....

I'd own 1/2 as many tools, as I do today,.....

You mean 0.5 as many tools.

 

[rsanter]

I don't know why we just don't stop being stubborn and join the rest of the world with their metric system..

Because we are stubborn.......

Bob

 

[RedneckWelder]

I don't understand the heartburn over our mixed system.

I cope with it pretty well.

I also like my speed in mph (when in the car, knots in the airplane) and altitude in feet, and I like my distances in miles (either statute or nautical) and my liquid in gallons.

 

[zer01]

You mean 0.5 as many tools.

What? What do fraction and decimal systems have to do with anything? They have nothing to do with metric or sae. Both can and are used with both units of measurement.

 

[cheechi]

Your question illustrates how difficult it is to dig through all the **** people 'know' incorrectly regarding metric & SAE/Imperial units.

The USA has actually used the metric system as the standard unit of measure for many many years. Inches are defined by how many mm they are, the inch is not the definition itself. The same is true for all forms of measure.

 

[Hephaestus29]

Maybe what he is trying to say is:

Why isn't the inch divided equally into 12 parts like: .08333333 which is real close to 5/32

 

[jcfields]

.

 

[HaroRider]

Oh please. Wake up. Do you really think the US fortune 500 is simply stubborn? What an arrogant insult.

Metric aerospace and military grade hardware is like 3X more expensive than SAE. Why? Because nearly all of it is made in the USA by high precision tools. Think of the lead screws on lathes that cut threads for example? Should we change all those out? Who wants to pay for that?

I worked on a project where we tried to switch to metric. What an unbelievable fiasco. We wasted so much money. If an engineer decides to switch his design to metric, his computer system changes, analysis software has to change, parts ordering, warehousing (because part sizes come automatically from CAD), everyone up and downstream has to change. The machine shop suddenly needs metric drills, metric cutters, metric inspection equipment. And we're not talking about digital calipers here. The shop needs metric tools to assemble.

The car companies are changing because they are world companies with parts coming from all over and it is easier for us to change here than to ask them to change. Europe and Japan are metric is because the USA bought them all new everything after WW2, thanks very much. If you are starting over, metric makes sense. Otherwise, the cost of a (meaningless) unit switch to an industrialized nation, let alone the USA, is astronomical.

And at the end of the day, you will never get 20mm plywood. You'll get 19mm plywood that is really 3/4" for twice the price of the old 3/4" sheets.

Damn, I was kinda just thinking out loud, don't blow a gasket on me..

 

[Gmonkee]

SAE marked in decimal was marketed in the UK from WWII to the early 50's. I have 4 of a set in the collection.

 

[Handyfarmer]

I love this import (mostly china made stuff), with metric out side or nut size and a SAE thread in it, some times it take a lot of time to determine what the thread of some of this stuff is that some in various replacement parts,