Ignition Scope

[bajones238]

Well my old Sun 1120 ignition scope finally quit working (no horizontal trace line) and I have no clue how to fix it. I think it is time to join the new century and upgrade to a modern system like the Picoscope, about which I have heard good things.

My question for the automotive pros: can the Picoscope be used to analyze conventional ignition systems? By "conventional", I mean coil/distributor/points/condenser systems.

 

[kd3pc]

the pico scope will need inductive pickup probes and a laptop for display. Differential probes for hybrid/BEV vehicles. Multi channel scopes or umbilical cable like the snap/on verus uses that allows you prescale/parade and show like the old SunTune units.

Cost will be quite a bit more than an instrument and most laptops do not survive very long in a shop environment unless hardened or mounted securely.

I have a $40 JYE kit, that does yeoman work. All the way to a Siglent. I do have a pico scope but it seldom leaves the lab without me.

Check out what is out there, as compared to your needs or intended use.

 

[Getusum111]

I've been wondering the same thing....

 

[Bobioz1]

The Picoscope is not an ignition analyzer but yes it can display conventional ignition waveforms/patterns. And a whole lot more. Should be a ton of stuff on YouTube. I use business class dell laptops in the shop and they hold up just fine.

 

[joecon]

check out the waekon auto wave it is simple and works well but the screen is
very small.

 

[bubinga]

Well my old Sun 1120 ignition scope finally quit working (no horizontal trace line) and I have no clue how to fix it. I think it is time to join the new century and upgrade to a modern system like the Picoscope, about which I have heard good things.

My question for the automotive pros: can the Picoscope be used to analyze conventional ignition systems? By "conventional", I mean coil/distributor/points/condenser systems.

Don't know about all that, but Can you tell me how to hook up a scope to a
2000 mazda mellinia, V6 motor. (non turbo).
Ford probe used the same motor.

 

[mixerfixer]

https://www.aeswave.com/uScope-Master-Kit-1-channel-automotive-scope-p9273.html

Here's a $400 one channel digital pocket scope. I'm a diesel guy but it think that this should have what you need scope ignition signals. They are currently out of stock but expect back mid January. I work on class 8 diesel trucks and have been looking at these for a while. I think I'm pulling the trigger on one when they come back in stock.

 

[mixerfixer]

https://www.aeswave.com/uScope-Master-Kit-1-channel-automotive-scope-p9273.html

Here's a $400 one channel digital pocket scope. I'm a diesel guy but it think that this should have what you need scope ignition signals. They are currently out of stock but expect back mid January. I work on class 8 diesel trucks and have been looking at these for a while. I think I'm pulling the trigger on one when they come back in stock.

Check ScannerDanner on YouTube for a video showing him hooking it to a gas engine for ignition problem

 

[theoldwizard1]

Old Sun ignition 'scope were designed to work with battery ignition systems that had ONE coil and a distributor. The 'scope would display a "parade" of all ignition pulses via an inductive pickup on the coil lead. An inductive pickup on cylinder #1 was the "trigger" so that the parade always started with cylinder #1 and followed the firing order.

One of the big features of the Sun ignition 'scopes was the ability to do a cylinder drop test. It could short out one cylinder at a time and you could see if the the RPM dropped by an equal amount for each cylinder.

No general purpose 'scope can do all of that !

I have said it before, Picoscopes are very nice, but they a very overpriced. Many accessories are requires to do many tests and, again, Pico overcharges (a Pico brand ignition pickup costs >$50; similar pickups start at $16). For a coil-on-plug engine, you need an adapter to space the coil away from the plug so that you attach the pickup.

You can get most (all?) of same information, displayed in a different form, by using primary coil pickup.

 

[Bobioz1]

The Picoscope platform is unequaled in the automotive world. They are constantly improving the software and updates are free for life. Considering what it costs to buy, update and replace scan tools these days, the Picoscope is a bargain.

 

[GTA Matt]

Get one of the complete pico automotive kits from aes wave or autonerdz with high and low amp probes, inductive ignition pickup, coil on plug inductive pickup paddle, etc. It can pick up conventional ignition systems just fine, and obviously a whole lot more. Pico' s ability to allow you to analyze the waveform after the capture is absolutely unrivalled. These captures are from picos inductive pickup around a plug wire with a carbon tracked plug.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[bajones238]

Thanks Matt, that is the information I was looking for.

Thanks to all of the others who took time to post, some great information there. It looks like I have some research to do.

 

[Danglerb]

Is a scope of any kind really of much use on a modern car?

How about something cheap like the $50 to $100 pocket scopes?

 

[GTA Matt]

Is a scope of any kind really of much use on a modern car?

How about something cheap like the $50 to $100 pocket scopes?

If you want to diagnose quickly with no guessing, they are more useful now, more then ever. With engines using multiple camshafts, vvt, coils, plugs and injectors sometimes inaccessible without disassembly, along with testing fuel pumps, shift solenoids, relative compression, in cylinder pressure, data communication, etc., a scope is the tool of choice.

The smaller tools like the u-scope work great for quick, simple testing. For more involved diag, multiple channels or advanced after capture analysis, the fall short obviously.

 

[bubinga]

Is a scope of any kind really of much use on a modern car?

How about something cheap like the $50 to $100 pocket scopes?

to be honest I haven't used it yet, But I have the Snap on 3000A
and It will do DIS, COP, as well as cars with a distributor.
Haven't found an answer to the Mazda Dist. Cap hook up though.
Chasing a miss for a guy, But we just don't want to change every 2nd-are Ignition part.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Thanks Matt, that is the information I was looking for.

If you have a distributor you can put the pickup on the coil wire and it will pickup all plugs, but you need some way to sync it to cylinder #1.

Also, if you have coil-on-plug, you need an adapter to use the inductive pickup.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Is a scope of any kind really of much use on a modern car?

How about something cheap like the $50 to $100 pocket scopes?

Very few people have the skill/knowledge to use a cheap scope for many (most?) automotive diagnostic task. Also cheap 'scope typically only have 1 or 2 channels. Some tasks require 4 channels. The Pico (although grossly over priced) has builtin help for easy setup and wide online user base with many snap shots of proper and improper component waveforms.


If LabNation, the makers of SmartScope, make some software improvements (which the claim they are working on) they will become KING of the 2 channel market at about $250. I have heard that 2 can be slaved together for 4 channel operation, but I can not confirm this. Their product has bee out for long enough, I hope they have a newer version that has 4 channels.

 

[VinceG]

Get a Hantek it will work for what you need and is cheap. get the 1008 if you dont use it much. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BSR98KW/?tag=atomicindus08-20
or the 6074be if you use it more often. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EWL04K8/?tag=atomicindus08-20

We have tested both at work against the Pico and for the price the Hantek works good. We bought 10 of the 1008c and 17 of the 6074BE to test and have had no issues the 6074be is more accurate.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Get a Hantek it will work for what you need and is cheap. get the 1008 if you dont use it much. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BSR98KW/?tag=atomicindus08-20
or the 6074be if you use it more often. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EWL04K8/?tag=atomicindus08-20

We have tested both at work against the Pico and for the price the Hantek works good. We bought 10 of the 1008c and 17 of the 6074BE to test and have had no issues the 6074be is more accurate.

Always good to hear from someone using the tool in the field ! Why the comment on the 1008 vs the 6074be ?

The biggest complaints I have heard about this 'scope is not enough memory and not high enough sample rate when using all 4 channels. (The typical complaint of every electronic tech.) Those can be easily be fixed in the next version.

 

[VinceG]

The 6074Be is more accurate and has a better built case but is $219 the 1008 will do what is needed but is in a plastic case and gets a little glitchy when using more than 2 channels.

 

[Tallpilot]

I have said it before, Picoscopes are very nice, but they a very overpriced. Many accessories are requires to do many tests and, again, Pico overcharges (a Pico brand ignition pickup costs >$50; similar pickups start at $16). For a coil-on-plug engine, you need an adapter to space the coil away from the plug so that you attach the pickup.

You can get most (all?) of same information, displayed in a different form, by using primary coil pickup.

That is my biggest issue. It is an awesome piece of kit and the software is second to none but the prices are pretty rediculous. I have a uScope and it’s been pretty good. I occasionally wish I had a second channel so I just picked up a used Vantage Ultra for less than a 2 channel Pico.

I have leads and pickups from AESWave. They are great but also fairly expensive.