I'll Admit It... I'm Confused By Worm Drive Circular Saws

[jonshonda]

I picked a really nice USA made SkillSaw HD77 at a garage sale last year for really cheap. I've been trying to get the hang of using it, but am having trouble figuring out how exactly this thing is supposed to be beneficial to right handed users (vs a typical side winder), other then the better light of sight on the cut line.

I'll explain my setup to help clarify. My workbenches/saw horses are on my left side (when facing them), I typically pull my tape measure from left to right. I mark my cut, pull the material (in this case a 2x4) to the right and off the edge of the workbench/sawhorse just enough to get blade clearance, then use my left hand to brace the material, and right hand to cut.

What I find is that the majority of the weight of the saw, and the largest part of the base plate/shoe is on the offal side. So what happens at the very end of the cut is that the saw wants to start tipping with the offal, and I have to force the weight of the saw over to the left and onto the very small side of the shoe. It seems like most of my cuts are nice and straight right until the end of the cut.

What am I doing wrong?

 

[PCustoms]

Isn't offal pig organs?

 

[Firstram]

Practice. I grew up using sidewinders and had to force myself to learn a worm drive, now it's my go to saw. Both saws have their benefits and should be taken advantage.

 

[speed bump]

Some good how to videos from Essential Craftsman. One thing I picked up from him is cutting the board on edge so you let the weight of the saw carry through the cut.

 

[bob15]

What I find is that the majority of the weight of the saw, and the largest part of the base plate/shoe is on the offal side. So what happens at the very end of the cut is that the saw wants to start tipping with the offal, and I have to force the weight of the saw over to the left and onto the very small side of the shoe. It seems like most of my cuts are nice and straight right until the end of the cut.

What am I doing wrong?

Try cutting from the right to the left if looking at the piece you are cutting from a distance. Then all the weight will be on the part not falling. Not sure how else to explain it.

See picture below

 

[theoldwizard1]

I am not about to buy a worm gear saw as I don't use a circular saw that often, but bend over to see the proper line of cut is a pain.

 

[jonshonda]

Some good how to videos from Essential Craftsman. One thing I picked up from him is cutting the board on edge so you let the weight of the saw carry through the cut.

Ahh yes, I think tilting the board up at an angle might be the ticket. Thanks!

Try cutting from the right to the left if looking at the piece you are cutting from a distance. Then all the weight will be on the part not falling. Not sure how else to explain it.

That applies to ripping, not cross cutting. But a good tip none-the-less!

 

[Farmall450]

You pull the tape like I do (lefty). I leave the bigger side of the saw on the non-cut piece if it's a heavy saw

Generally people cut "down" with wormdrives.

 

[bob15]

Ahh yes, I think tilting the board up at an angle might be the ticket. Thanks!



That applies to ripping, not cross cutting. But a good tip none-the-less!

You cross cut the lumber the same way, motor on the piece that is "hanging in the air". If you think you are going crooked, use a square as a guide.

Best I can come up with for a picture via google:

 

[RTM]

With my sidewinder, I did it like you, off cut to my right.

First use of the worm, it felt wrong, so started doing it as Bob pictured above. I like being able to see the blade where it’s hitting the finished edge, so will take some practice.

 

[Chucktin]

I totally agree with the OP. Used to be you could choose from a left motor or a right motor saw. Haven't seen anything but right motors for forever.
Had a wormdrive for a bit, passed it on to brother so never saw an advantage.
Lately I've grown very suspicious of DIY shows - they definitely minimize the effort in time, money, skill and experience needed for even simpler tasks. And don't get me started on "deziners".
I'll contribute one suggestion - when you make or buy saw horses don't get only 2. You need at least 3 and 4 is better so you have a spare. XYZ's are never the same height as MND's.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

 

[jonshonda]

You cross cut the lumber the same way, motor on the piece that is "hanging in the air". If you think you are going crooked, use a square as a guide.

Best I can come up with for a picture via google:

In all of these pics the cut line is on the far side of the blade (unless the measurement you pulled accounts for the kerf). I know it's not a finish saw, but it still would be a lot easier imho if the cut line was between the user and the blade.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Worm drive blades are usually to the right, so a right-handed person can see the cut line better. They're heavier and spin slower, but the worm gives them more torque. The weight is along the centerline of the saw, not off to one side as in a sidewinder. A worm drive is more expensive, however...

Honestly, it's all in what you like. Some people prefer sidewinders because they're light and fast, some prefer worm drives because they're balanced and can chew through wood.

 

[Voi]

In all of these pics the cut line is on the far side of the blade (unless the measurement you pulled accounts for the kerf). I know it's not a finish saw, but it still would be a lot easier imho if the cut line was between the user and the blade.

I started to write a long response talking about this but dog had to go out and I lost it.

I use both blade left and blade right saws. There are times it is actually worth it to me to lean over a blade right saw. The tradeoff is worth it if it keeps the kerf on the fall off side and the weight of the saw balanced on the larger "keep" piece.

I don't do much rough framing. If I did it in volume then blade left for sure. But I almost always hold the longer keep piece in my left hand and just deal with the weight of the motor hanging off the keep piece in that situation.

There are times I might use a blade left saw to cut an angle on a wider piece. But if I feel like I want to cut from the other side I adjust my cut line accordingly (meaning I bump it over by the width of the kerf).

 

[redwrench60]

Sidewinders always felt goofy to me with the blade to the right and having to crane my neck to watch my cut but I put up with them since I didn’t know any better. I got a hold of a worm drive working with a buddy and his dad and fell for them. Killer torque, longer more stable frame, easy to view left blade for righties. I don’t mind the extra heft. It helps stabilize the saw and “fall” through the cut. I keep a Makita sidewinder for some tasks but my Skill wormdrive is my go to.

 

[Zmann]

all these clamps in the pictures lol
real job site would never see a clamped 2x and a skilsaw together


and this ?WTH lol

 

[ssdave]

....

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

Orient your board so the part your are keeping is to your left. Toss a speed square on the board and measure the cut length, align the speed square 1.5 inches short from desired cut length. Cut with the worm saw in right hand, riding along the speed square (held with left hand).

Perfect square cut every time, no need to have a pencil or mark anything. Worm saws have the table 1.5 inches from the edge of the blade. No need to try and see anything while cutting means less chance of getting **** in your eyes, and less chance of messing up the cut because you can't see **** because you're old.

 

[Showkey]

Have worm drive..........have not used it in years.
In fact think in have 4 other hand held circular saws that rarely get used as well.

Need a true 90* or miter cut most often use power miter box. It’s setup on bench semi permanent.

Need a random cut of 2 by or plywood....... Milwaukee M18 circular saw.

Worm drive has great power........but........just too heavy. Especially for garage or shed build. Saw horse and the miter saw takes time to set up ........but.......faster and more accurate in the long run.

The last I used worm drive installed specialty blade and cut 20’ straight line in asphalt.

Right or left of the kerf line vs pencil line is always a concern no matter the saw.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

Don't feel bad, as a high rise and industrial carpenter, I hated them. Snap a line and try to cut a straight line on a sheet of plywood and you get more curves than a beauty contest. The blade is beside your leg when cutting a 2x4. Heavy and awkward. Hi ball framers loved them but carpenters didn't.

 

[seber]

I use both a sidewinder and worm drive. Sidewinder is best for cut to length. Worm drive for sheet goods. If I were left handed it would be opposite. They each have a purpose.

 

[MarvinBerry]

Don't feel bad, as a high rise and industrial carpenter, I hated them. Snap a line and try to cut a straight line on a sheet of plywood and you get more curves than a beauty contest. The blade is beside your leg when cutting a 2x4. Heavy and awkward. Hi ball framers loved them but carpenters didn't.

Same here.

When I learned the trade 20 plus years ago most of the guys who had accidents with circular saws were using worm drive. Mostly 2x4 kickbacks into the leg...

Never picked one up that felt comfortable.

 

[ssdave]

......

 

[BFBOB]

Isn't offal pig organs?

off-fall

had me momentarily confused too

 

[BFBOB]

Worm vs sidewinder isn't the only choice. MOAO didn't like my normal blade-right sidewinder so I got her a mirror image. Yup, Porter-Cable makes the exact same saw in right and left-blade versions. Same price too!

 

[jonshonda]

off-fall

had me momentarily confused too

I don't know that I spelled or used it wrong. Although various sources have different definitions, the majority of them agree it is a waste product. Plus I was an engineer for Ashley furniture (biggest furniture manufacturer in the USA by far), and we called it offal....haha

Worm vs sidewinder isn't the only choice. MOAO didn't like my normal blade-right sidewinder so I got her a mirror image. Yup, Porter-Cable makes the exact same saw in right and left-blade versions. Same price too!

I will look into the porter cable, thanks!


I was looking a little more into the saw, and noted the shoe is twisted. I am sure that isn't helping my case. So now I am curious if the shoe assembly from the Mag 77 fits on the HD77.

 

[Voi]

I was looking a little more into the saw, and noted the shoe is twisted. I am sure that isn't helping my case. So now I am curious if the shoe assembly from the Mag 77 fits on the HD77.

When you say the shoe is twisted do you mean the blade is not parallel to the edge of the shoe?

I'm not sure about parts compatibility but I have repaired one of my saws after it took a fall off the tailgate of my truck.

 

[jonshonda]

When you say the shoe is twisted do you mean the blade is not parallel to the edge of the shoe?

I put a straight edge the long way, and then corner to corner across the shoe and it is obvious that it was dropped on one of the corners at one point. As the corner to corner across the shoe showed pretty obvious twist.

I read reviews that the mag77 shoe fits the HD77 just fine, which looks like a pretty serious upgrade to the standard stamped shoe.

 

[M635_Guy]

and this ?WTH lol

This picture made my head hurt.


I have a Makita Hypoid, which is just being replaced with an M18 "worm drive" - I hated not being able to see the cut in a natural stance. I'm strange though - I'm left-handed to write and eat, but right-handed for just about everything else (even a mouse). What feels natural to me is probably feels wrong to 99.9995% of the rest of the world...

 

[jeepinerdeep]

I'm right handed, and love left blade or worm drive saws. I like to see the blade. I use the saws maybe 10 times a year, not everyday.

I just use it as an exercise in forearm building strength to keep the saw upright.

 

[Bigblockyeti]

Worm vs sidewinder isn't the only choice. MOAO didn't like my normal blade-right sidewinder so I got her a mirror image. Yup, Porter-Cable makes the exact same saw in right and left-blade versions. Same price too!

The 347 and 743 were the two mirror image saws, I have a couple 347's (blade right) among others and a worm drive saw or two. They both have their benefits but being left handed, a blade right saw is usually my go to. I am ambidextrous with a hammer, nail gun & tape measure but when I have a saw handle in my right hand, it just doesn't feel right or safe to me. I'd love to find a vintage blade right worm drive saw but given my research I'm not sure they ever existed except for the little Porter Cable 314 trim saw.

 

[jonshonda]

Just upgraded the ole girl with a Magnesium base plate from a newer Bosch saw (lot's of really nice improvements to make life easier implemented on the new version), and scored a 25' 12/3 extension cord on clearance from Menards for $16. She purrs like a kitten now!

20201214_134607 by Jon S, on Flickr

20201214_154251 by Jon S, on Flickr

 

[cjarvis]

How did you figure out that the Bosch shoe fit the Skilsaw? That's interesting!

Speaking of left vs. right blades, I really don't like the right-blade saws even though I'm right handed. I hate having to either look through the saw to see the cut line or crane my head around to the other side of the saw. I have a really nice P/C 347 that I haven't used in 15+ years for that very reason. I haven't gotten rid of it because it was a gift from my mother.

 

[Badgerstate]

Ive got an old worm drive Craftsman that belonged to my wife's father and its a great saw but its a tank.
It is a cool old saw but I wouldnt want it to be my daily driver. Given the choice and if Im only cutting 2x material, I'll take my Milwaukee M12 Fuel over the ole Craftsman any day.

 

[bob15]

How did you figure out that the Bosch shoe fit the Skilsaw? That's interesting!

It might help due to the fact Bosch owns Skilsaw

 

[Wamsutta]

Clamp the board to the sawhorse and cut with the wide portion of the sole plate resting on the board. You'll be standing on the opposite side of the 2x4 from where you were before.

 

[PugetDude]

Worm vs sidewinder isn't the only choice. MOAO didn't like my normal blade-right sidewinder so I got her a mirror image. Yup, Porter-Cable makes the exact same saw in right and left-blade versions. Same price too!

I bought a PC sidewinder with left blade on a closeout at Lowes for $39. (Quite a few years ago)
It replaced my 40 year old Skilsaw 77. I hate sidewinders with the blade on the right, you have to lean over the saw to see the cutline, can't really see the blade while cutting and have to hold the saw in an awkward, over the top limp-wristed position. With a worm drive the handle is in line with your arm, in a natural push position. Much more comfortable, IMO

 

[jonshonda]

How did you figure out that the Bosch shoe fit the Skilsaw? That's interesting!

Some internet sleuthing, compare and contrast....and the ad on ebay said it would fit!! Haha

Clamp the board to the sawhorse and cut with the wide portion of the sole plate resting on the board. You'll be standing on the opposite side of the 2x4 from where you were before.

I don't know if its coincidence or not, but both my outdoor and indoor work benches are setup to have the main part of the board resting on my left side, meaning the drop is to the right of the blade. I'm not about to change all that for the darn saw!

 

[jonshonda]

Internet is messed up tonight. Double post

 

[oldwino]

Being left handed I love worm drive. I’ve tried a sidewinder a couple of times and they just feel wrong. Besides I love the startup torque of a 77