Illegal Service Hook Up. Need Advice.

[roblouvasz]

Hi Y'all. In a nutshell, I just found out that the house we're looking to buy has an illegal service hook up at the garage. The garage is detached. Now, follow me here, the house has it's own meter with the mains connected to the pole across the street from the house. No issues there. The garage has it's own meter with the mains connected via buried cable to a pole on the property. That meter feeds one of the two panels in the garage. The other panel is fed by another buried cable to the same pole NO METER!! I pulled the cover off of the panel that is fed by the meter only to discover that there is only one breaker connected to a fan. All of the other hots are tied into the other panel thru a short run of emt. NOW WHAT!! I'm not signing anything until this is resolved. Any advice????

 

[ducksface]

Address the owner.
Ask for a fix.
There is nothing else you can do except put in a bid to purchase and handle it later with a very easy Professional fix.

This is based on your assessment being correct.
I'd have someone else take a look to back up your view.
Maybe a professional home inspector?

 

[BillK]

I would pay an electrician to come and look at it and tell you what it will cost to have it made legal and to code. Use that in your negotiations with the seller. Also you need to make sure that the power company is aware of it and that you will not be responsible for it if you buy the house. Maybe even tell them about it right now so they can look at it before you buy. The present owner wont be happy if it is indeed illegal but thats the way it goes. Heck, the present owners might not even know about it depending on when it was done and how long they have been there.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Hi Y'all. In a nutshell, I just found out that the house we're looking to buy has an illegal service hook up at the garage. The garage is detached. Now, follow me here, the house has it's own meter with the mains connected to the pole across the street from the house. No issues there. The garage has it's own meter with the mains connected via buried cable to a pole on the property. That meter feeds one of the two panels in the garage. The other panel is fed by another buried cable to the same pole NO METER!! I pulled the cover off of the panel that is fed by the meter only to discover that there is only one breaker connected to a fan. All of the other hots are tied into the other panel thru a short run of emt. NOW WHAT!! I'm not signing anything until this is resolved. Any advice????

so someone tapped the second feed into the line on the pole? where did they splice it?

have pics?

I would call an electrician to do an inspection and give you a quote for repair.

Also, PoCo may assess steep fines and you dont want to be responsible for those so i would call PoCo and find out how much the fines may be.

 

[roblouvasz]

First of all, it's an estate sale. Second, the wires are run up the pole to the transformer. That's where the tap is. I was told by a guy who has custody of the deceased guy's daughter that a couple of people told him that the garage was tied in illegally. I've already left a message with my realtor. I'll be notifying the bank on Monday. I'm going to see if I can get some photos posted.

 

[ducksface]

First of all, it's an estate sale. Second, the wires are run up the pole to the transformer. That's where the tap is. I was told by a guy who has custody of the deceased guy's daughter that a couple of people told him that the garage was tied in illegally. I've already left a message with my realtor. I'll be notifying the bank on Monday. I'm going to see if I can get some photos posted.

OK,
What will you notify the bank bank about?
All that will do is get you kinked and a potential reset at the new rates...maybe a complete do-over dependant on your timing.
I'd reconsider telling the bank something they needn't know.

Pm. JamesW or JamesE (I don't remember which is a mortgage banker) and ask consequences of telling the bank.

 

[BillK]

If it is an estate sale they might not be willing to do anything. Those sales are usually "as is" Just find out what it is going to cost to make it legal and decide whether the deal is worth it.

 

[roblouvasz]

Here's a couple of photos I pulled off of craigslist of the inside of the garage. You can see the two panels on the wall. The left panel is the one hooked into the meter on the outside of the garage wall. The panel on the left is the one illegally tied in. The 3" grey plastic conduit on the left of the newer looking panel goes strait down into the concrete.

 

[BillK]

That really doesn't show anything. You need an electrician and the power company to look at it. Period. Then you will know what is what.

 

[Toomanytools?]

Wyliesdiesels: ...so someone taped the second feed into the line on the pole? where did they splice it?
not to be the word police but a missing (p) gives this a different meaning taped or tapped.
Talk with your realtor tell them what conditions need to be met for you to buy. They usually want to get the deal done and will set a limit on the fix, like $2500 to have work brought up to code. Maybe see if you can get an electrician over and look at it so you have a estimate for realtor to go by. No need to talk with bank yet. No need to guess what is going on with the electrical just the fact that it is illegal and needs to be fixed or price adjusted before you go any further.

 

[BillK]

To be honest you don't even know for certain that it is illegal ??? That's why you need to have it looked at.

 

[ttpete]

Looks like the remains of a "grow" installation.

 

[tfi racing]

It would be foolish to talk to anyone other than a local electrical contractor. Have him take a look, suggest a solution and provide a quote that you can present in hopes of getting a reduction in the sale price. Any other plan is just a waste of everyone's time and energy.

 

[walta]

Even asking for a contractors estimate will be dangerous as many most will feel obligated to report this install to the power company. No one is likely to touch it until after the power Co disconnected the feed.

The best course of action maybe to report it to the power company before you make any offer and force the estate to deal with any and all theft of service fees and criminal theft charges that could be prosecuted.


Walta

 

[m32825]

First of all, it's an estate sale. Second, the wires are run up the pole to the transformer. That's where the tap is.

Did the previous owner die of electrocution?

 

[850xpeps]

Even asking for a contractors estimate will be dangerous as many most will feel obligated to report this install to the power company. No one is likely to touch it until after the power Co disconnected the feed.

The best course of action maybe to report it to the power company before you make any offer and force the estate to deal with any and all theft of service fees and criminal theft charges that could be prosecuted.


Walta

Agree with this. It’s a serious offence to steal power and they will attach any bill they feel was stolen. Notify local power company and wait to see what happens. Once they are notified and start dealing with current owners you can purchase it in its current state. At least this way the power company knows your not the thief.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[roblouvasz]

I actually need to make a correction. In my post with the photos, it's the panel on the RIGHT that is illegally connected straight to the transformer on the pole with out a meter. Yes, I will be calling the power co. on Monday. I know I'm not the owner but I'm covering my ****! I called my realtor but got no response. That pisses me off. It seems since we signed the purchase agreement I never get any kind of responses from her. I guess she thinks she doesn't have to do anything else because she's getting her commission no matter what. I'll be call her boss on Monday!

 

[BillK]

I called my realtor but got no response. That pisses me off. ................ I'll be call her boss on Monday!

You do realize that Monday is Christmas eve ? Personally I would not expect anyone to reply until Wednesday. Just about everyone I know is taking a nice four day long weekend except for the poor people working retail.

 

[roblouvasz]

OK, Wednesday.....

 

[roblouvasz]

BTW, I'm one of those poor people working retail along with my wife on Christmas Eve. What pisses me off about the realtor is that we are the working poor just trying to better our lives by getting out of a declining neighborhood. We get treated like **** by this woman and she walks away with her commission by doing almost nothing! Rant over.

 

[Richard Cranium]

sounds like you picked the wrong realtor.

 

[Farmall450]

sounds like you picked the wrong realtor.

^^^^^^

It's not Russia or NK, you can choose who you do business with.

 

[Yamaguy]

Or keep your mouth shut and enjoy the free power...

 

[Jim greengo]

Or just put it in the contract that the electrical issues need to be addressed before the closing date on the property?
Since you're not the owner of the property,you really have no right to be making calls about it in my book anyway.
If you're not happy with your realtor,fire her and use somebody else.

 

[James-W]

Or just put it in the contract that the electrical issues need to be addressed before the closing date on the property?

Since you're not the owner of the property, you really have no right to be making calls about it in my book anyway.

If you're not happy with your Realtor,fire her and use somebody else.

You may be correct on that, since you don't own the property it isn't any of your business. On the other hand, the property is for sale and you may very well end up owning it. I may be wrong on this but I would think you have the right to look at things like property tax bills, home owners insurance bills, heating bills, electrical bills, etc, things that would affect what it costs to live there in addition to mortgage payments.

Not being an attorney knowledgeable in this area of the law, I don't know for sure just what rights a potential home buyer has. But my gut feeling is that if you see something that you feel is not right you should be able to have it checked out before you buy the property.

 

[realunlucky]

You may be correct on that, since you don't own the property it isn't any of your business. On the other hand, the property is for sale and you may very well end up owning it. I may be wrong on this but I would think you have the right to look at things like property tax bills, home owners insurance bills, heating bills, electrical bills, etc, things that would affect what it costs to live there in addition to mortgage payments.

Not being an attorney knowledgeable in this area of the law, I don't know for sure just what rights a potential home buyer has. But my gut feeling is that if you see something that you feel is not right you should be able to have it checked out before you buy the property.

Why would you have the "right" to look at any records that weren't public?

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

[ard]

I dont understand why OP feels compelled to take out a full page ad in the local paper and blow his deal all to heck.

'Call the poco', 'call the bank', call the realtors....

geez, just get an expert opinion, THEN decide who to call.

Unless you dont want the property.... creating a huge mess is an excellent way to get into a situation that ends with someone else living there.

 

[PoorOwner]

How do you know this buried cable in the garage isn’t coming off the panel off the house. It could be they have run that out for the subpanel before a dedicated meter is added for the garage.

Just a guess though it doesn’t sound like you have done enough testing to know where the source for the power comes from.

Try flipping the main off the house to see if that garage stuff is still powered

 

[Ancient Iron]

BTW, I'm one of those poor people working retail along with my wife on Christmas Eve. What pisses me off about the realtor is that we are the working poor just trying to better our lives by getting out of a declining neighborhood. We get treated like **** by this woman and she walks away with her commission by doing almost nothing! Rant over.

Until you go to closing and sign your life away and finalize the deal she doesn't get ****.
If she treats you like **** dump her ***. If this house is that much trouble walk away, It's not worth the added aggravation.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

First of all, it's an estate sale. Second, the wires are run up the pole to the transformer. That's where the tap is. I was told by a guy who has custody of the deceased guy's daughter that a couple of people told him that the garage was tied in illegally. I've already left a message with my realtor. I'll be notifying the bank on Monday. I'm going to see if I can get some photos posted.

So someone had to climb the pole and do this.

I really wonder here....

 

[Negen]

So someone had to climb the pole and do this.

I really wonder here....

I cannot imagine someone with knowledge on how to tap into a transformer would do so illegally and I also cannot imagine someone who would do so illegally would be able to without hurting themselves or getting dead.


I would call the electric company on Wednesday and ask what they think you should do.

Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I cannot imagine someone with knowledge on how to tap into a transformer would do so illegally and I also cannot imagine someone who would do so illegally would be able to without hurting themselves or getting dead.


I would call the electric company on Wednesday and ask what they think you should do.

Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app

exactly.

I can climb poles but i sure as hell aint gonna be messing with hot connections while dangling from a pole.

 

[JimNC]

I’ll jump on the bandwagon, there are easier ways to steal power. It might be exactly what you think, but it could also be a handful of things that are perfectly legal.

I don’t know that it’s right, but you should have an opportunity to have it inspected under offer, and asking the power company to look at it will cost you nothing, heck they might pay you. It will also force a disclosure of any problem by the seller to any other interested party, so you’re less likely to lose the deal. If there is a problem it will most likely slow the deal down while the power company and seller work out a settlement.

 

[Chucktin]

This sounds like you, the OP, really, really want this house. If so then you've put yourself in a bad position even without considering an electrical issue. You're too vulnerable.
Some good advice here.
I'd first have a qualified electrican tell you what that extra power panel actually does and how it's hooked up.
Then I'd sit down with the bank and tell them _IF_ there is an issue that it needs to be resolved or the purchase is not going forward. If you buy this house, and I'm betting it's an "as is" sale, and there is a problem, you will have to convince the power company that you are not responsible for it. Do-able but a true PITA.
If it was a hook-up for a grow house there, even in California, still may be some legal issues you will be forced to deal with in the future.
As to the Realtor - maybe it is Xmas time but she should still be monitoring her phone and if she's not, or not willing to get her buns in gear for an important issue, even if there is nothing there and she just needs to hold your hand (what does your contract with her say?), you have every right to not pay her commission. She is not doing her "due-dilligence" and full disclosure.

 

[macdabs]

Wow this is all getting crazy. It is not that difficult or that out of reality on rural property. First the Realtor is not responsible or your solution unless you just want out of purchasing the property that is as is or if you want them to raise the price cause they get involved.
Second, you need to hire an inspector or electrician to verify if this is the case and document it . This will protect you from any claims that you were hiding the fact before or after acquiring the property.
Third the electric will have a final read before the purchase and you can even request a new meter or the service to stay off till the repairs are made and the electric company will disconnect the service if it is illegal. If it is a co-op they will disconnect it at that time.

Nothing here is that difficult or the end of the world. I have seen service drops without meters many times legal and illegal. Some of it dates back 40 plus years . Majority of the stuff is low current draw and deals with co-ops.

 

[PCustoms]

Try flipping the main off the house to see if that garage stuff is still powered

This is a (simple) good place to start.

It likely isn't what you think it is. As an example, the pole across the street has 3 underground feeds coming off it, the one up the road has 4 with one house being several hundred feet deep in the woods. Odds are you aren't aware of what it is connected to, and you assume the conduit goes underground at the pole and comes up at the he garage.

 

[mike93lx]

"working poor"? don't buy, rent. you'll bury yourself in the cost of maintenance, repairs and upgrades. home ownership is not a default path to wealth.

 

[HoosierMark]

The first place I would start is the county / city building inspector. I would suspect that they will need to inspect it if the electric company does anything. (Maybe not). The code inspector is who you need to keep happy, call them and ask for advice. If I found this I would be concerned as to what else may be cobbled together in the house. When you signed the purchase contract you agreed to terms of a deal. Read the contract and see what your rights are. If you bought it as is, then it could be your issue, but since this is an illegal item, there may be remedies to cancel or modify the deal in your state.

 

[raddksn]

"It would be foolish to talk to anyone other than a local electrical contractor. Have him take a look, suggest a solution and provide a quote that you can present in hopes of getting a reduction in the sale price. Any other plan is just a waste of everyone's time and energy". this is exactly what I would do anything else in my opinion is a waste of time!

 

[Jim greengo]

So someone had to climb the pole and do this.

I really wonder here....