I'm mildly freaked out

[brookscooper]

So,

I applied for a building permit on 4-7-11. Same time I applied for a demo permit to remove the existing garage (the entire concept of a permit needed to fully raze something I already own simply boggles me, but bureaucracy demands submission.).

As of today demo is complete. The existing slab will be removed Monday.

I still await structural approval and "life safety" approval. I and my design guy got a 10 point check sheet from Captain Life Safety today that is at best myopic and at worst idiotic. Plans redone to conform. Re-submitting tomorrow.

I have no garage. My stuff and my car are in storage units and I cannot start building.

This is why people move out of the City.

I know. My choice to live here but really? I submitted plans done by a professional designer with an entire BOOK of calcs done by a licensed structural engineer on 4-7 and here it is 20 days later and no idea when the structural guy will even start review?!? Sigh.

Just venting.

On the other hand, the new plans are AWESOME. Once the build starts I'll start a "watch the build" page. I've got video of the demo and will keep doing video but I really really wish I was scheduling excavation now instead of just waiting.

 

[bazzateer]

Why did you go ahead with the demo without permission for the build? You must have known you would have storage issues for a while?

 

[brookscooper]

Basically - I was approved on 4-11 by the "can you build that, there" person and the "can you build in that size" person so it's now just down to the "can you nail it together" and "how many safety guards / hand rails" guys.
I WILL get a permit. I just wish it had been issued by now.

Since I had the demo permit I started demo - move out of the existing shop was a 2 week thing anyway. AND the demo contractor I used is part of a local outfit that re-uses / recycles everything it can. Their schedule allowed demo to start on 4-25 so I pulled the trigger.

WISH the building permit was further along but it is what it is.

 

[ddawg16]

And you are in what state?

I went through the same thing....not quite as many issues....but overall, it went smooth.

California now requires a certain amount of the demo material to be recycled....some people might question it...but there is a good reason for it. Why toss 20 tons of concrete into a land fill when it can be reused. When you consider that all the land fills in the LA area are now parking lots....everything has to be trucked 60-100 miles away. It's not just the diesel....but have you ever been on the fwy behind one of those trucks? It's called smell polution.

Anyway....I'll be going through all that again in a couple of weeks when I get the permits for my 2-story addition to my house. I feel your pain......but you will love the end result. You can see my demo in my build thread in the link of my sig.

 

[Woogeroo]

You must be in Atlanta, Georgia.

-W

 

[KEH]

AFIK one puropse of the demo permit is to get the building off the tax rolls. At least that's the way it works here.

KEH

 

[Cougar]

Basically - I was approved on 4-11 by the "can you build that, there" person and the "can you build in that size" person so it's now just down to the "can you nail it together" and "how many safety guards / hand rails" guys.
I WILL get a permit. I just wish it had been issued by now.

Since I had the demo permit I started demo - move out of the existing shop was a 2 week thing anyway. AND the demo contractor I used is part of a local outfit that re-uses / recycles everything it can. Their schedule allowed demo to start on 4-25 so I pulled the trigger.

WISH the building permit was further along but it is what it is.

What are the safety guards and hand rails for.
The Govt moves at the speed of........... unless it involves tax dollars you better not be late.

 

[december45]

just because you move to the country, doesnt always mean it any easier or even any less stupid, in some places the whole permit process encourages you to try everything you can to get around some of the goofy rules, or even skip the whole process.

We could not get a final inspection without a receipt from the dumps for construction trash. i dont know, did they have a problem with people just keeping their construction trash, if they were having problems with people throwing it along the road, those people probably weren't getting a permit anyway. Lots and lots of hoops to jump through... im sick of it.

 

[draglink]

WTF is "life safety" approval? Iam so thankful of where I live....I took my shop plans to builing inspectors office, girl in there looked them over, showed her where it was going on my property, got permits..cost about $100 and off I went. Building inspector comes out to check footer/foundation, framing, electric and completion no BS at all

 

[Lkdelta]

just because you move to the country, doesnt always mean it any easier or even any less stupid,

or even skip the whole process.

We could not get a final inspection without a receipt from the dumps for construction trash.

I thought it was BS when I heard about the trash receipts here...so we just skipped/scrapped the project too
Guess they just didn't want the big disposal fire

 

[LAROKE]

Look at the bright side, fellas. In twenty years, this era will be viewed as a golden age before the nanny state really clamped down.

 

[Grumpy365]

When I built my house. I got my financing in place. The building loan was for 1 year.

I go to get the permits and I find I have a zoning issue and have to get it rezoned.

This process takes 3 months. So I can't work and my timeline is shrinking to get it completed.

This made the project way more stressful than it needed to be.

 

[Rickstir]

Fifteen years ago I built a 3500 SQ Ft inground energy efficien home in my rural county. The ONLY inspection was for the sewage lagoon. 400 Sq ft surface area for each bedroom (4). That was it.
Try calling your alderman or local politian and see if he/she can speed things up.

 

[Zeke]

As a contractor, I gave up building years ago and became a specialty contractor (doors and windows). Now even that is too complicated. I'm happy to be a handyman.

And I wouldn't know what to do with "life safety issues".

 

[SuperSocket]

AFIK one puropse of the demo permit is to get the building off the tax rolls. At least that's the way it works here.

KEH

Doesn't work like that here if you raze extra property they will conveniently "forget" that you no longer have it and continue to tax you on it... however, if you build something and they are not taxing on it, prepare for a world of hurt.

 

[ptschram]

I moved to the country after getting approval from nearly every one with the city. Then the land use/planning guy got involved and all he would say was that my use was prohibited by city ordinance, no co-locating business and residence anywhere in the city.

For some reason, that ordinance doesn't apply to the new downtown redevelopment where they are encouraging co-location.

I took my money to the next county where I can do much more, and if my neighbors should complain, the county building department tells them I'm in compliance!

 

[GarageEnvy]

Been there, done that. In December I went on vacation trusting designer to submit plans as he promised. Got back to find out he didn't do it. January 1, new requirement came into play. Fortunately they didn't impact my design. I submit on Jan 18 and was told "you're permit #2 for the year." I say "Gee, you guys must be slow." The response was that it was like a morgue. While I'm there I watch a planner kill 15 minutes rearranging the door mat. Pay my fees and get a "Expect an answer in 6 weeks." So I can't let it go and say "Why 6 weeks when you guys are looking for work." One guy laughs and says "If you have jobs pending, there's a need for you. No jobs pending, no need." When I told them I wanted to start demo they said I should have applied for the permit separately. "What happens if I just go ahead and start demo w/o permit I asked." Guys laugh and say, "Well I suppose we could stop you until the permit is issued." So I killed 6 weeks re-routing the water main and sprinkler lines and slowly removing stucco from the rear and side of the house. Eventually I tore the roof, rear wall and every other stud out of it. I was left with a facade with the garage door. Permit finally issued and 30 minutes later the facade was down.

Just play along with the stupidity. I paid $83 for a voucher NOT to move dirt. You see, if I was moving dirt I'd need a permit which was expensive. They were actually doing me a favor.

 

[toddmcdong]

This almost sounds like a commercial plan review timeline. Around here, 21 days is average for first pass plan review. If they get a little bit busy, it bumps up to 30+ days. How big is this garage?

Doesn't work like that here if you raze extra property they will conveniently "forget" that you no longer have it and continue to tax you on it... however, if you build something and they are not taxing on it, prepare for a world of hurt.

When I went in to fight my tax assessment, they had some aerial photos of my property that were far better quality and more recent than Google maps or any other GIS sites I have found. I swear I found things at the back of my property from that image that I had been looking for. Big brother...

 

[ptschram]

When I went in to fight my tax assessment, they had some aerial photos of my property that were far better quality and more recent than Google maps or any other GIS sites I have found. I swear I found things at the back of my property from that image that I had been looking for. Big brother...

The last time I had a neighbor complain about my yard, the county had aerial photos from the day before I got the letter.

My tech was standing in the driveway waving at the plane that was at tree-top level!

 

[GarageEnvy]

Yep, as an appraiser who does tax assessment appeal work I can confirm that my county (and many others) use aerial photography. It's the main reason I jumped through all the hoops to even get permits. I figured a 1400 sf extension of my garage might get noticed. I've seen the down side of not getting permits and as mentioned, it can get ugly. Here's one I dealt with.
Investor buys 1200 sf house and GETS permit to add on +/- 900 sf.
Then goes ahead and does a complete **** job w/o ever calling for inspections. When I say ****, I mean 3' sections of Romex wire nutted together in the wall, 20' 2x4 floor joists with no intermediate supports, plumbing that wasn't even glued together. Sells it to first time buyer for $120,000 more with "as is" clause. County uses aerial and sees the addition. Checks records and sees no inspections. They give him 90 days to bring to code or remove. Buyer tears open walls and finds mess but has no money to fix. Home gets foreclosed and bank can't sell because transfer can't be completed until notice of remediation is cleared. Finally an investor with the balls to put his own money into the banks property comes along and fixes and purchases for $52,000.

 

[tdkkart]

When I went in to fight my tax assessment, they had some aerial photos of my property that were far better quality and more recent than Google maps or any other GIS sites I have found.

The last time I had a neighbor complain about my yard, the county had aerial photos from the day before I got the letter.

I wonder if there's any way to claim invasion of privacy and prohibit them from taking aerial pictures of your property to use against you?? Almost seems like search without a warrant??

 

[SteelHorseHD]

WTF is "life safety" approval? Iam so thankful of where I live....I took my shop plans to builing inspectors office, girl in there looked them over, showed her where it was going on my property, got permits..cost about $100 and off I went. Building inspector comes out to check footer/foundation, framing, electric and completion no BS at all

That's how it was for me here in Illinois. All they wanted to know was how far it was from the property lines and that was it. No footing inspection, no electrical permit or none of the other stuff. I guess we are just lucky!

 

[GMCAMARO]

We live on water, no I am not bragging, it can be a pain. We have a two car garage and I also wanted a 3 bay for toys, hobbies and ***. Any in the people's republic of MA, if your with 100 feet of the water you need to go before conservation, in order to avoid that we put exactly 101, so there they all were 3 of them for 4 hours with long tape measuures making sure it was not with in the 100 feet. I won that one.
At the same time with 15 feet of the water is this shed. I wanted to take it down as it is not so much not needed as I do not want to maintain it and I do not want to pay taxes on it. So I apply for demolition permit. Because it with in the 100 feet they say go see the conservation commission. Not immediately but in the distant future it will fall down, and I tell them that to which they reply, clean it up when it happens and apply for a return of the taxes paid on the shed.

 

[toddmcdong]

I wonder if there's any way to claim invasion of privacy and prohibit them from taking aerial pictures of your property to use against you?? Almost seems like search without a warrant??

A quick google search turned up nothing but comments on privacy. I think it's a situation like photos taken from the street - they are on public property, not a whole lot you can do about it.

 

[Falcon67]

At the same time with 15 feet of the water is this shed. I wanted to take it down as it is not so much not needed as I do not want to maintain it and I do not want to pay taxes on it. So I apply for demolition permit. Because it with in the 100 feet they say go see the conservation commission. Not immediately but in the distant future it will fall down, and I tell them that to which they reply, clean it up when it happens and apply for a return of the taxes paid on the shed.

If that was me - next time it rained - man, what a micro burst we had yesterday. My poor shed...

 

[Timpala]

I love living in the country. We're zoned as AG so no permits required for anything. They will find new structures with aerial photos and then come by to see what you put up and how much to stick you for it.

 

[redrunner]

I got shot down about two weeks again over five different things. One of them as nonsupported laterial framing on walls over 12 feet tall. Try to find that in the world of how to fix it...just got off the phone with the engineer who did my drawings and he does not have any idea what the city wants and he has been working in this city for almost 40 years.

 

[787B]

They will find new structures with aerial photos and then come by to see what you put up and how much to stick you for it.

I see a market for camouflage roof shingles... Who's in?

 

[SuperSocket]

I see a market for camouflage roof shingles... Who's in?

I personally prefer this, much more effective and makes for a great yard ornament

 

[blkhonda1991]

We live on water, no I am not bragging, it can be a pain. We have a two car garage and I also wanted a 3 bay for toys, hobbies and ***. Any in the people's republic of MA, if your with 100 feet of the water you need to go before conservation, in order to avoid that we put exactly 101, so there they all were 3 of them for 4 hours with long tape measuures making sure it was not with in the 100 feet. I won that one.
At the same time with 15 feet of the water is this shed. I wanted to take it down as it is not so much not needed as I do not want to maintain it and I do not want to pay taxes on it. So I apply for demolition permit. Because it with in the 100 feet they say go see the conservation commission. Not immediately but in the distant future it will fall down, and I tell them that to which they reply, clean it up when it happens and apply for a return of the taxes paid on the shed.

i think almost all states are adopting such rules when it comes to building on water, i know a house i just designed in maine has the same rules

 

[blkhonda1991]

I got shot down about two weeks again over five different things. One of them as nonsupported laterial framing on walls over 12 feet tall. Try to find that in the world of how to fix it...just got off the phone with the engineer who did my drawings and he does not have any idea what the city wants and he has been working in this city for almost 40 years.

you dont have enough lateral support for your over 12' wall, if your engineer doesnt know what lateral bracing is id ask for my money back

 

[redrunner]

It is not the engineer but the city saying it lacks laterial support. I asked the city what it needed and they said we don't know. I letter from the engineer. I just taked to him and he is not sure what the city wants? He was looking up the code then going to tell me what I need to do and change the prints to show me.

As for money it's a freebe from a good friend.

 

[brookscooper]

Thanks for the kind words. Nice to hear I'm not being singled out.

So - the "life safety" - here's the deal - It's a 2100 square foot with a full upstairs and full basement.

There's a spiral stair from basement to main to upper.
"life safety" didn't accept that the plans called for railings but in 1 spot didn't show them.
Also, a code requirement had changed and my guy didn't know (no big deal) so the windows adjacent to the spiral now have to be tempered - that's a legitimate check sheet item since we in fact don't meet code as spec'd.

Computer indicates that the structural review guy sent a check sheet yesterday. It will be waiting in the mail when I get home.

Reason I started demo before I had my building permit was - can't schedule the excavator until I have the build permit - since I'm approved by zoning, siting and bureau of environmental services I KNOW I WILL get a building permit. Thus, starting demo ensures I can move as fast as possible when the building permit issues. I was already going to have to rent a storage unit from the day demo started so from my point of view I've paid for maybe 3/4 / month of a storage unit that I could have avoided - tolerable.

My demo WAS a recycle demo - everything that can be re-used - including the slab will be. Couldn't stand all that CVG going into the land fill.

Unless the structural checksheet is a mile long I'm likely to get my permit next week. Thus, only a week or so delay - tolerable.

 

[brslk]

We live on water, no I am not bragging, it can be a pain. We have a two car garage and I also wanted a 3 bay for toys, hobbies and ***. Any in the people's republic of MA, if your with 100 feet of the water you need to go before conservation, in order to avoid that we put exactly 101, so there they all were 3 of them for 4 hours with long tape measuures making sure it was not with in the 100 feet. I won that one.
At the same time with 15 feet of the water is this shed. I wanted to take it down as it is not so much not needed as I do not want to maintain it and I do not want to pay taxes on it. So I apply for demolition permit. Because it with in the 100 feet they say go see the conservation commission. Not immediately but in the distant future it will fall down, and I tell them that to which they reply, clean it up when it happens and apply for a return of the taxes paid on the shed.

 

[Brad54]

At the same time with 15 feet of the water is this shed. I wanted to take it down as it is not so much not needed as I do not want to maintain it and I do not want to pay taxes on it. So I apply for demolition permit. Because it with in the 100 feet they say go see the conservation commission. Not immediately but in the distant future it will fall down, and I tell them that to which they reply, clean it up when it happens and apply for a return of the taxes paid on the shed.

Damn vandals set fire to it...

I think...no, I'm positive vandals would set fire to something before I'd pay money for a demo fee on something like that.

-Brad

 

[dougmac]

The the county PDS here Rocks!

They helped me every step of the way. I drew and submitted my own site plan. I also drew and submitted my own structural plans after having them engineered. Less than two weeks from plan submittal to building permit. My project manager answered all of my questions and made things as easy as possible. The inspectors were all decent and helpful!

This is how every building department should operate.