Imagine not having tools.

[dwasifar]

The other day the wife and I were streaming episodes of Mad About You. For those who have not seen it, it's a 90s sitcom about Paul and Jamie, a pair of mildly mismatched 30-something newlyweds in a New York City apartment.

In the episode we were watching, Jamie's parents come over to visit for the first time, and right away her dad says something to the effect of, "I'll fix that door latch for you, where's your screwdriver?" And Paul does not have one. The show riffs on that for a little while, and I'm not sure who is being made fun of; Paul, or the dad.

Later I chatted with an apartment-dwelling friend, who told me that while they have a collection of basic tools, their building's maintenance person says that's unusual. The majority of tenants have no tools at all, and must rely on the maintenance staff for even the simplest repair or adjustment.

Imagine living like that. How would it make you feel? It would make me feel vulnerable and useless. I need to know I can fix what goes wrong. Otherwise what good am I?

 

[xtremek]

I can't fathom that. I had my first tool box when I was about 12. It had a full set of 3/8" metric and SAE sockets, wrenches, and other odds and ends. They were cheap, but they were mine, and I ended up building a pan buggy with them.

 

[macgee]

I was like that for 25+ years. From having a small home shop with a mill to nothing but a duffle bag traveling the world, living in cities and places with no tools or place to work on things. I cant tell you how much better I felt after building a shop back up, puts a smile on my face every time I walk into it. I realized that part of my enjoyment in life is having a shop and working on & making things.

At least I knew how to fix things and I was good at finding & borrowing tools needed during that time. At the same time, I would be a very different person if I didn't see the world and learn about it and instead just stayed in that shop the whole time.

 

[LXCam]

I’d flipping love it! Sell it all and pay someone else to do it?, hell ya!

 

[didit]

There are lots of people like that today. Some don't see the need to own tools of any kind. Some will borrow from others on a need basis. Others will persuade someone to do the work for them. Many will hire someone, no matter how trivial the job is. I know people who actually believe they are above doing any type of manual labor but never miss their gym days.
Last year when my granddaughter moved to an apartment in Toronto she asked me to make her a list of what she should have in the way of tools. I gave her what I had that I could spare and she bought the rest to fill out a basic tool kit. All kinds of different types out there, I think more so than in the past.

 

[dwasifar]

At least I knew how to fix things and I was good at finding & borrowing tools needed during that time. At the same time, I would be a very different person if I didn't see the world and learn about it and instead just stayed in that shop the whole time.

Yes, I suppose I should make the distinction between people like you and people like the fictional Paul, who compared owning a screwdriver to being a mountain man with a chainsaw. He didn't see the need. That's what I don't get, at all.

 

[macgee]

Yes, I suppose I should make the distinction between people like you and people like the fictional Paul, who compared owning a screwdriver to being a mountain man with a chainsaw. He didn't see the need. That's what I don't get, at all.

Good point and very true,

Sadly, my nephew is totally like that. His point of view is why even own a screwdriver, just call someone to fix it. His mom raised him to think that way.

I think he maybe mechanical but I don't know if he is because he has zero desire to even think that way. His thinking is to be zero resilient nor self reliant and to just rely on others (via app or phone) and pay someone to fix it. I cant imagine thinking that way. When I offered him a small tool box kit for his home, he looked at me strangely and said why and that he has no space for it.

 

[dwasifar]

When I offered him a small tool box kit for his home, he looked at me strangely and said why and that he has no space for it.

For his home? He's a homeowner, with that attitude? Man, that must get expensive.

I mentioned this thread to my wife just now, and she says it's a generational thing. The thinks old guys like a lot of us here are more likely to be hands-on. She works in hardware retail, so I suppose watching her customers gives her some basis for her opinion. Your story of your nephew makes me think she might be right.

If that's true, I wonder how much of it is because modern technology is designed to be unrepairable, or requires specialized knowledge and equipment to repair. When I was 19, I remember lying under my old Plymouth on the side of the road, in a puddle of slush, installing a u-joint in the dark after unexpectedly dropping the driveshaft. Not a lot of fun, but at least it was possible. Field repairs are a lot harder on modern cars. And if your phone breaks, or a small appliance dies, you're supposed to just throw those away and buy new ones. If you don't grow up fixing things because the things around you can't be fixed, maybe you just never think about fixing things at all.

 

[dr_clyde]

This is a forum of enthusiasts, so of course it seems strange that someone isn't into what we are.

There is a significant portion of the population that doesn't give a rat's *** about tools, equipment or shops. These people are our customers. They just want their thing, and they want to work. They don't really care about how.

When it stops working, they pay someone to fix it. This is what makes the economy go around.

I understand that. I am happy to pay other tradesman to fix what they're good at, because people pay me to do what I'm good at.

It is OK for people to not like things.

 

[Meursault74]

Later I chatted with an apartment-dwelling friend, who told me that while they have a collection of basic tools, their building's maintenance person says that's unusual. The majority of tenants have no tools at all, and must rely on the maintenance staff for even the simplest repair or adjustment.

Imagine living like that. How would it make you feel? It would make me feel vulnerable and useless. I need to know I can fix what goes wrong. Otherwise what good am I?

If you rent an apartment, aren't you supposed to let the maintenance people do the tasks as it isn't your place? I thought that was one of the "perks" of renting.

I can't imagine not having some basic tools, but if I was renting an apartment and the toilet needed rebuilding, why should I do it? I think even attempting would be a problem, hence you call the "super".

Now when my toilets need rebuilding, I'm the guy that does it because they are my toilets.

 

[CS454]

Austerity has it's perks.

 

[CS454]

This is a forum of enthusiasts, so of course it seems strange that someone isn't into what we are.

There is a significant portion of the population that doesn't give a rat's *** about tools, equipment or shops. These people are our customers. They just want their thing, and they want to work. They don't really care about how.

When it stops working, they pay someone to fix it. This is what makes the economy go around.

I understand that. I am happy to pay other tradesman to fix what they're good at, because people pay me to do what I'm good at.

It is OK for people to not like things.

This mirrors a lot of my sentiment. I'd rather do some side work to pay the plumber what they're worth than play in the muck and hope I get it right.

 

[AJHD]

....

 

[metaleltr]

If you rent an apartment, aren't you supposed to let the maintenance people do the tasks as it isn't your place? I thought that was one of the "perks" of renting.

I can't imagine not having some basic tools, but if I was renting an apartment and the toilet needed rebuilding, why should I do it? I think even attempting would be a problem, hence you call the "super".

Now when my toilets need rebuilding, I'm the guy that does it because they are my toilets.

Where would a plunger fall in this example?

A clogged drain is technically a maintenance issue.

A plunger is technically a plumbing tool.

The average apartment dweller is likely unfamiliar with the finer point of clearing a clogged drain.

That being said the first time I clogged a toilet while living in an apartment, I went to Home Depot to get a plunger.

 

[measuredtwice]

The show is a romance comedy about 2 upper middle class people living in an upscale apartment in Lower Manhattan in New York City. It might be a little different if they lived in a house instead of an apartment... or if they lived in rural Idaho instead of downtown NY city... or if they weren't stereotypes of white collar workers. The characters in that show aren't the Connors.

If you owned the Infinity Gauntlet from Marvel movies, you wouldn't need any other tools.

 

[Meursault74]

Where would a plunger fall in this example?

A clogged drain is technically a maintenance issue.

A plunger is technically a plumbing tool.

The average apartment dweller is likely unfamiliar with the finer point of clearing a clogged drain.

That being said the first time I clogged a toilet while living in an apartment, I went to Home Depot to get a plunger.

I don't know. If you clogged it with too much paper or not enough fiber, then you didn't want to bother the super. But what if it was something else related to the toilet or drain?

 

[subroc]

I like tools. I have bought, owned and used tools since I was 15 years old. I am 66 years old now. I made a living with tools in my hand. I still like having a tool in my hand. My use now is mostly DIY. I expect if my life took a different path where my job didn't require the use of tools i still would have owned and used tools to do whatever needed to be done.

How helpless or skilled others are or choose to be in the face of work needing a tool is up to them.

 

[dr_clyde]

I think we should not be making the assumption that an apartment dweller is incapable of doing basic mechanical repairs to their home.

Lots of machinists, fabricators, mechanics, builders and other skilled tradesmen live in an apartment. They’re not just for poor college kids or folks that can’t hack it with a house. Sometimes it’s easier, cheaper, more convenient or just more simple to rent an apartment.

That said, if I rented an apartment, I would absolutely have the building’s maintenance department fix THEIR building. I’m not interested in fixing a furnace or washer or whatever that doesn’t belong to me. Just because I CAN, doesn’t mean I want to.

 

[Renegade1LI]

I hate to say it but it seems rampant with the younger generation, goes with dumbing them down, imagine what it will be like in two more generations. My youngest son lives in an apartment by DC, I don't think he even has a screwdriver nor the desire to get one or use it, I offered him plenty, nope doesn't need anything. After I bought a set of cheap tools as a kid, my dad took them & tossed them right into the trash, 10 minutes later we were on our way to sears to get some decent tools. He always said save your money & buy good tools, you can always make a living with them & they will always hold their value. Every vehicle I own has at least some basic tools, my camper, snowmobile trailer has all the correct tools for the toys involved plus I keep a universal bag of tools ready to bring wherever, just in case. No such thing as too many tools!

 

[Bessy]

Now I'm 27, so I guess I fall into the category of young people, but I can say with 100% certainly that I can't do it or even fathom it. I've had tools since I was small (like before 10 years old). Nothing major, started with a hammer and some misc screwdrivers, maybe a wrench or two.

Then I started my lawn business, moved up to a small carry box, with a small socket set that I carried along with it, and grew from there. I've lived in basements, condos, etc, even places where I wasn't supposed to do my own maintenance, but that never stopped me from having tools within reach. Almost a security blanket of sorts.

Nowadays, I'm looking at moving again, out of country this time, and will have to contend with either packing up all my tools to move or downsizing, and I'm not sure exactly how to make the decision of what to keep, what to gift, etc.

Sent from my BE2026 using Tapatalk

 

[Davefr]

Mom and Dad taught me that if you want something done right, you need to do it yourself.

That means until the time comes that nothing ever breaks, then tools will be needed.

 

[macgee]

For his home? He's a homeowner, with that attitude? Man, that must get expensive.

Yup, it is but he was raised to get a high end education, make good money and just pay someone to do the blue collar jobs and avoid such hassles.

Which is totally fine, not everyone needs to own a shop full of tools and do it all themselves; we all have our own set of skills, taste, efficiencies and hobbies; We are all different kinds of people. It's ok to not want tools or need them.

But when my nephew was younger and getting his first car, I was concerned that he was going to be totally clueless about how some things work or even where to put the gas or when to pull over when something goes wrong with the car. Just simple things like knowing like what sounds wrong when driving a car or how to help describe to the mechanic what's wrong with the car or having some clue to knowing when the mechanic is trying to pull the wools over your eyes, he doesn't.

When it comes to having a contractor at this house to do some work, he wont have a single clue what the contractor is talking about as he doesn't even know how to use a screwdriver. I cant imagine that but to each his own like Charlie Sheen in Two & half Guys trying to fix something which may not be a terrible thing.

I'm jut worried about that skill set being lost and who's going make the quality things that so much of the young generation take for granted?

 

[samss]

My dad always said "Get the right tool for the job"......but he was neither a mechanic or carpenter. He didn't even attempt to grow a garden until his later years in life. Some of his brothers were mechanically inclined and his dad was a carpenter. My dad was a barber, photographer, marksman and truck driver.
Every profession requires some kind of tool and talent. Know your limits and talents......and get the right tool for the job.

 

[Dumber than lumber]

To me this sounds like a Stephen King novel.
I cried because I had no teeth, until I met a man who had no tools.

 

[larry_g]

Sounds Utopian to me. How great it would be if nothing broke and I need no tools to fix things. In my working career I made my living with tools and now I really don't want to fix things.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[bobg03]

I have 3 boys all could be self sustaining around the house if they wanted to. The oldest is a licensed boiler tech at a manufacturing facility. He went to high school for HVAC and did 6 years in the Navy, he calls the landlord.

My next is in upper management, at 32 years old his next stop in a few years will be Corporate. He took electronics in HS and has a good grasp on common sense, something that highly intelligent people don't normally have. His specialty is being an actuary and he is the youngest person to be ever given a position this high in the global company that employs him as a facility director. He and his fiancee live in a luxury apartment, she is a stewardess so when things are normal they globetrot. They call the super for everything.

My youngest took Plumbing in High School and has a collection of tools to do everything for himself. He is a specialized OTR flat bed driver, and is always working on something.

That's not where I and their mother ever expected them to land as adults, they all went to a vocational high school and picked a trade but none do it..lol

 

[Lucid Moments]

For those people claiming it is generation I just can't agree. According to my Grandmother her father wouldn't buy a house because he didn't want to have to repair ****. He just called the landlord. Her husband, my Grandfather was a little better. Graduated from Ga. Tech with a degree in mechanical engineering in 1932 but ended up owning a general store. He would fix little things, but anything that would take more than a few minutes he called the appropriate repair person or handyman. My father was a physician and he didn't fix squat and was hopeless with tools. He had some, but the only ones he ever used were garden tools because gardening was his hobby.

 

[RTM]

When my oldest daughter got her first college apartment, I outfitted her with a decent tool box, Craftsman stuff. Less than one month into the school year, one of the drains plugs, calls the maintenance guy, shows up without a big enough pair of pliers to open the drain. She pulled hers out of the box, he fixed the drain, and eventually walked off with them. Management replaced them. She has since bought a house with new hubby, and they are learning. They keep buying HD tools, and occasionally I walk them through a project, or occasionally help. They’ve had to call a pro for a few repairs, simple parts replacement that I was able to tell her the problem remotely , but unable to get over to fix.. I get her on the video chat, and walk it thru. Hubby wrenching, her pointing . There is some hope.

 

[dwasifar]

The business about not fixing someone else's building for them, as a few people have said, is a good point. But for me that is more a reason not to live in an apartment than a reason not to have tools. And even in that situation, I would still want to be able to do things like fix a loose drawer pull or hinge, or tighten up a leaky sink feed line. I would rather put five minutes into those things on my own than sit around waiting for the super to come by, especially if there's water involved.

Also, the super won't fix your personal property. If the problem is with your own furniture or gear, you're on your own.

For his home? He's a homeowner, with that attitude? Man, that must get expensive.

Yup, it is but he was raised to get a high end education, make good money and just pay someone to do the blue collar jobs and avoid such hassles.

Can I say that I really can't stand that attitude? It stinks of "this work is beneath me." Maybe it's Neanderthal of me but I think a man should at least be able to maintain his own house. High end education and money give you the option of hiring it out, yeah, but that doesn't mean ignorance of homeowner skills is some sort of badge of achievement. And it's ironic to think that some people show off their education by making a point of what they haven't learned to do. I make a pretty good living, and I can afford to hire a plumber, but I still fix my own damn toilets.

I'm just worried about that skill set being lost and who's going make the quality things that so much of the young generation take for granted?

The Chinese.

 

[dwasifar]

When my oldest daughter got her first college apartment, I outfitted her with a decent tool box, Craftsman stuff. Less than one month into the school year, one of the drains plugs, calls the maintenance guy, shows up without a big enough pair of pliers to open the drain. She pulled hers out of the box, he fixed the drain, and eventually walked off with them. Management replaced them. She has since bought a house with new hubby, and they are learning. They keep buying HD tools, and occasionally I walk them through a project, or occasionally help. They’ve had to call a pro for a few repairs, simple parts replacement that I was able to tell her the problem remotely , but unable to get over to fix.. I get her on the video chat, and walk it thru. Hubby wrenching, her pointing . There is some hope.

Great that you're passing on your knowledge. This is the kind of stuff that makes people remember you fondly long after you're gone. Thirty years from now: "My wife's dad taught me how to do these things. He was a hell of a guy."

 

[Hotrod33809]

I do think it's a generation thing but whenever my parents complain about my generation and their laziness I always remind them it was their generation who raised all these helpless people haha

I'm part of the younger crowd, I'm 27, and growing up my dad could fix just about everything. I never once saw a repair person of any sorts at the house. He would be rebuilding the washer and I ask him if he knew what he was doing and it was always "I'll figure it out" it may have taken a couple days but he did. As a real little kid I was always into helping, but to be honest by the time I was a teenager I had 0 interest in learning anything in regards to fixing things. Fixing things wasn't "cool" in my crowd. I wanted to play video games with my friends. Just being around him and being "forced" to help turn wrenches or build something gave me a base knowledge of fixing things that most of my friends didn't have, but I still had no interest. Around 22 years old I took my vehicle in for a brake job at a chain auto repair. They quoted me a price and I had just graduated college and didn't have a whole lot of money and was like No way...I've watched my dad do this before in like an hour or two. So I called my dad up, used the portable craftsmen toolset he gave me on my 16th birthday. And thus began my obsession with tools and desire to become more handy and self sufficient atleast repair wise.. But alot of my friends can't do anything more than screw together some Ikea furniture. I hung a tv on the wall for one of my coworkers(I work a very white collar job in the mortgage industry) after they told me they were gonna pay someone to do it. When I pulled out a drill and a stud finder the look of confusion and shock was hilarious "Why do you own that" My reply was "So I can do stuff like this"

Now I can't imagine not being able to work on things and fix them myself. I think some comments here are digging way to deep into the apartment situation OP mentioned. Obviously if it's some major repair it's perfectly normal to call maintenance. I'm not spending money fixing someone else's building, but like I had a cabinet handle loose and a hinge come unscrewed and was able to fix those pretty quickly. I feel like OP is referencing those people who can't bother to turn a screw driver two rotations to tighten a handle.

 

[dr_clyde]

While I do believe that it is prudent and smart to have a basic set of tools and the knowledge of how to use them, I think we forget that a pretty serious percentage of the population views fixing and maintaining a bunch of property as, well, WORK.

I enjoy what I do for a living. I own a welding and machine shop. I work hard all day crafting and fixing things. In a pinch I could and have gotten myself out of a jam on a weekend or holiday at home. But, I do not enjoy coming home just to have to work more in some ill-conceived attempt to be some kind of renaissance man. I CAN fix a broken lawn mower, but I would much rather pay the small engine shop down the street to do it for me while I enjoy my leisure time reading, watching tv, walking the dog or spending time with my wife. That’s worth the $100 to do the annual tune up on the mower, even though I have skills, tools and a whole shop. Hell, if I didn’t have the acreage I do, I’d hire out the mowing altogether.

Most folks do not enjoy fixing broken things. It can be difficult, dirty, demanding work and that’s not something a lot of people want to do in their free time when there exist so many services for hire to take care of them for us.

 

[jeepinerdeep]

I've thought about it. It'll likely never be "no tools", but I've thought about heading in to retirement with nothing but my Kennedy hand box. Not sure what I'd do for enjoyment then though?

 

[metaleltr]

While I do believe that it is prudent and smart to have a basic set of tools and the knowledge of how to use them, I think we forget that a pretty serious percentage of the population views fixing and maintaining a bunch of property as, well, WORK.

I enjoy what I do for a living. I own a welding and machine shop. I work hard all day crafting and fixing things. In a pinch I could and have gotten myself out of a jam on a weekend or holiday at home. But, I do not enjoy coming home just to have to work more in some ill-conceived attempt to be some kind of renaissance man. I CAN fix a broken lawn mower, but I would much rather pay the small engine shop down the street to do it for me while I enjoy my leisure time reading, watching tv, walking the dog or spending time with my wife. That’s worth the $100 to do the annual tune up on the mower, even though I have skills, tools and a whole shop. Hell, if I didn’t have the acreage I do, I’d hire out the mowing altogether.

Most folks do not enjoy fixing broken things. It can be difficult, dirty, demanding work and that’s not something a lot of people want to do in their free time when there exist so many services for hire to take care of them for us.

For me personally it would take longer to haul the mower to a repair shop for a tune up than it would to just repair it over a few beers.

 

[Meursault74]

Can I say that I really can't stand that attitude? It stinks of "this work is beneath me." Maybe it's Neanderthal of me but I think a man should at least be able to maintain his own house. High end education and money give you the option of hiring it out, yeah, but that doesn't mean ignorance of homeowner skills is some sort of badge of achievement. And it's ironic to think that some people show off their education by making a point of what they haven't learned to do. I make a pretty good living, and I can afford to hire a plumber, but I still fix my own damn toilets.

.

I'll counter that with a guy I knew. He was mechanically inclined and worked in manufacturing, but well, wasn't up on all that "fancy book learning". He told me he had an accountant file his taxes. Without trying to pry too much I found out he basically had work income and some small investments and took the standard deduction. He didn't want to deal with the tax forms or maybe he couldn't. I tried to tell him it would be simple to file his taxes and he could save money doing it himself, but he just said he'd let the accountant do it. I'm sure he could rebuild a toilet though.

I rebuild my toilets and file my own taxes. Neither is that difficult or beneath me or above me.

 

[Jland]

I often think back to my youth ( late 60’s- early 70’s) and the boxes the “old dudes” had then. The stacked rollaways then were smaller than my bottom box is today and most guys just had a big cantilever anyway. I know have more tools than my great grandpa, grandpa and dad had combined... and still need more! When you consider most under 30 guys don’t know a ball peen hammer from a screwdriver and I’ve seen the new crescent wrenches with an arrow indicating which way to turn it... the future doesn’t look promising

 

[Dumber than lumber]

Some people are good with things.
Some are good with data (information, numbers, etc.)
Some people are good at working with other people.
It takes all kinds. But i tend to respect and enjoy those who can build and fix things PROPERLY most. Those who are good with data next.

 

[Jland]

Some people are good with things.
Some are good with data (information, numbers, etc.)
Some people are good at working with other people.
It takes all kinds. But i tend to respect and enjoy those who can build and fix things PROPERLY most. Those who are good with data next.

Key word there is properly.. good enough ain’t and I hate the expression polishing a turd... every guy I have ever trained, the one thing I drummed into their head is consider the next guy working on this... craftsmanship is a rapidly disappearing art. I’ve been a locksmith for over 40 years, the trend now is to call people “technicians”.. to me, a technician removes a part and replaces it with a new one.. a craftsman repairs the part... time is money..I get that but are we really wanting to trade skill and pride in workmanship for a buck.. those of us that say no are a rapidly dying breed

 

[didit]

Years ago, a co-worker who was also a jack of all trades, had tools up the gazoo, several project vehicles and a nice garage. He had well thought out plans but no time to do what he liked because he would be working every bit of overtime that was legally allowed, year in and year out. When asked why he needed to work so much overtime, he said it was to help his son to finance his education. I thought that was a noble cause until one day, he said his son was 33 years old, never had a job and wanted to eventually be a highly paid philosopher with lots of letters after his name.
He died way before his time. His wife & son sold everything in the garage for pennies on the dollar. All I could think was...what a waste of a life, sacrificing his well being and everything he cared about, never seeing retirement, just so his son could get a free ride. I don't know what ever became of his son but I'm betting he doesn't own any tools. Sorry for the rant but this thread just brought that to mind.

 

[macgee]

Can I say that I really can't stand that attitude? It stinks of "this work is beneath me." Maybe it's Neanderthal of me but I think a man should at least be able to maintain his own house. High end education and money give you the option of hiring it out, yeah, but that doesn't mean ignorance of homeowner skills is some sort of badge of achievement. And it's ironic to think that some people show off their education by making a point of what they haven't learned to do. I make a pretty good living, and I can afford to hire a plumber, but I still fix my own damn toilets.

For a little while I was lucky enough to have lived in a beautiful part of Sweden. There was massive pride to fix things yourself, to even building your own house, that was their way to "keeping up with the joneses"; you lost face when calling in for paid help. To the point that my girlfriends father (economics professor) and I built a 50' long pier to dock a fishing skiff with trees we cut down on the property. It was just the two of us, brutal hard labor and one of the coolest projects I've done. I also learned how to fish with nets and set them. All of this includes tools

These were well educated, white collar people/population who were successful but also connected with the land and pride of fixing things with your own hands (also because it was damn expensive to hire someone/anyone). Not everything was done by yourself, there was sense about when to hire the right people for the job. It was amazing to walk down the street in our neighborhood on the weekends and see all the hobbies and activities around the properties. Everyone had tools and prided themselves having them and being able to use them.

I think this directly translates in a big way to why there's so much high quality products still being produced in Sweden.
Of course no matter where you are, there will always be a lot of people living in big cities and apartment buildings without tools, it's par for the course and a way of life.

I think its prudent to know how things work and learn the basic skills to fix things, doesn't mean you have to fix everything.

"I'm just worried about that skill set being lost and who's going make the quality things that so much of the young generation take for granted?"


The Chinese.

True but I said quality things, not just something that is just barely good enough to get the job done; that's a Big difference and we could be in big trouble if our future population cant distinguish the difference between the two and detached from how to build things.