Impact and Compressor Matching

[skidude]

Bought an Ingersoll Rand Garage Mate compressor for home use. It's set up to use 1/4" hose fittings, so got a 3/8" x 50' hose with 1/4" fittings. It's advertised output is 5.2/5.5 cfm (depending on where you read it). Having had trouble finding a 1/2" impact to use with it for lug nuts, etc.

Have tried Harbor Freight's red Earthquake (6 cfm) and now Home Depot's best Husky 800 ft. lb. model (4.4 cfm). Neither will remove lug nuts torqued to 80 ft. lbs..

I'm wondering if I should try Harbor Freight's $150 top line Earthquake at 6 cfm and 1190 ft. lbs., or maybe the Aircat 1150, rated at 1295 ft lbs. The Aircat is rated at 4.3 cfm average and 8 cfm at load - not sure which number to compare to the others.

I've always heard that tool cfm should not be higher than the compressor's output cfm, but some say it's not true with impacts since impacts are typically used in short bursts.

I could really use some input....thanks.

 

[speedfreek1210]

The compressor can't supply enough air volume to give the tool full power. I have the red earthquake, I haven't found too many bolts it won't break loose. I'm using a much larger compressor though.


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[Citation]

Remember that the cfm the compressor can deliver for bursts is far greater than the pump's rated cfm. With that compressor, presumably a 20-30 gallon tank just about any 1/2" impact shouldn't be a problem.

If you can't remove an 80 ftlb nut the problem is something other than pump or tank.

 

[skidude]

It's a 20 gallon tank. It was the highest rated portable unit I could find.

 

[bcradio]

compressor is fine, impact is fine.

Your problem is you are not supplying it enough air at a high enough psi. Make sure it has 90psi at the gun at full throttle.

 

[crewchief888]

whats the air pressure?

 

[jismay]

I had similar issues with my Husky compressor and multiple different sized impacts.

I ended up attaching a pressure gage to a male QD connector and then plugging that into the end of my air hose. Used that to adjust the compressor until I was seeing 90+ PSI at the hose-end. Before doing that my hose-end pressure was closer to 60PSI.

Cost was maybe $10 total from Harbor Freight. And its easily portable to any compressor/hose combo I might use in the future.

 

[Superbec]

compressor is big enough for your impacts , hose is too long or you set the pressure too low or a combination of both .

 

[trekgod3]

I have the harbor freight 8 gallon 2hp compressor (4.5 cfm) and both the 1/2 inch and 3/8 Earthquake impacts. They both run fine with that compressor. The 1/2 inch Earthquake zips lugs off in about a second, the 3/8 takes about 2 or 3 seconds. That's with the regulator set to 90 psi.

I'm using 3/8 air hose with Husky high flow fittings and the compressor is plugged directly into a wall outlet , not an extension cord.

You may want to upgrade your hose and fittings before getting a different compressor.

 

[skidude]

Forgot the mention pressures. Tank pressure 155, and the highest regulator pressure I can get from it is 110.

Hose is a new Home Depot Husky 3/8" x 50' husky. Anyone have recommendations on a hose that will give more flow?

BTW, thanks for the idea for checking the pressure at the output end of the hose. I'll do that.

If I use a 25' hose it won't reach where I use it. Maybe that with a short extension cord?

I was also wondering if I could change the output quick connect from the regulator to 1/2", then use 1/2" hose with 3/8" connectors rather than the 1/4" connectors that are used on 3/8" hoses. The only thing is that the tools use 1/4" connectors - wouldn't that still be a bottleneck?

 

[firebox40dash5]

Getting airflow out of the tank is going to be an issue with most any portable compressor... most are made with an eye toward contractors running nailers, airing up tires, spraying, and such stuff where supplying 90+psi @ high flow rates isn't much of an issue.

My Speedaire/CH came with a 1/4 reducer in the tank, to a 4" 1/4NPT ******, through the pressure switch and out the mini-regulator. Choked all up. I used a 3/8NPT tee amd kept the pressure switch and regulated output up top, but added a tank-pressure coupler on the tee. I've run my 2135timax, air chisel, and even whiz wheel off it (about what you have, 2hp 120v single stage with a 20-30 gallon tank) and it runs them better than even I expected. Of course I can drain the tank with them and have to let it refill, it's not magical, but my tools actually do work while I'm draining it. A bunch of air volume in a tank is little use if you can't get enough pressure & volume out of it at the end of the hose.

PS: Don't do like my dumb *** did at first and buy the **** to accomplish that at HD/Lowes, lead-free brass by the piece is expensive as hell. A couple of those split on me and I ended up buying forged steel fittings from McMaster... I needed less pieces because of their selection, they're strong as hell, and it cost about half as much including shipping.

 

[Citation]

Forgot the mention pressures. Tank pressure 155, and the highest regulator pressure I can get from it is 110.

Hose is a new Home Depot Husky 3/8" x 50' husky. Anyone have recommendations on a hose that will give more flow?

BTW, thanks for the idea for checking the pressure at the output end of the hose. I'll do that.

If I use a 25' hose it won't reach where I use it. Maybe that with a short extension cord?

I was also wondering if I could change the output quick connect from the regulator to 1/2", then use 1/2" hose with 3/8" connectors rather than the 1/4" connectors that are used on 3/8" hoses. The only thing is that the tools use 1/4" connectors - wouldn't that still be a bottleneck?

So far none of this is really making sense. I've got a similar compressor (20 gallon, Campbell Hausfeld OEM). I'm using a replacement regulator from HD, other than that the thing is stock. No issues with my IR 231 impact. Heck I ran the impact off my 4 gallon DeWalt twin tank and it was able to remove an axle nut from a FWD car. I used a 50' 3/8" hose and 1/4" fittings. I'm havng trouble believing there isn't something else that's causing you some problem. Certainly a nut that was tightened with only 80 ftlb should be easy to remove with your wrench.

I second the poster who said check the pressure at the end of the line. Also, check your regulated pressure under load. Perhaps you have a bad regulator or something. Given my experience with a similar hose and fittings I suspect there is something just plain wrong.

 

[KMdef9]

Change all fittings to 3/8 and make an inline gauge setup for the end of the hose. Hook your gun up, put it on your bolt and start impacting. Adjust the regulator till the gauge says 90+.

All these parts can be found at HF and HD/lowes.

You don't need to change the hose length, there is some drop off for a longer hose, but that's what the regulator is for. Keep in mind, if you change hoses for other tools, you'll likely see a different psi at the hose end.

 

[skidude]

OK, I got an air pressure gauge and connected it to the hose. With the regulator showing 100 psi, the gauge at the end of the hose is around 98-99 psi. The hose, by the way, came with 1/4" compression fittings on it. So if the psi is good, does that narrow it down to flow?

 

[chris142]

Whats the pressure gauge show when you squeeze the trigger?

 

[hefnerconstructionlc]

Have you oiled your air gun?

 

[Handyfarmer]

are going through a regulator, if so remove it and see if that makes a difference, and try a different hose even reversing the hose,

it sounds like you have a major restriction some place,

even take the pipe apart I have had a restriction that was in the fittings some junk was lodged in the pipe fittings,

if you have a fair sized tank you should have adiquit air until pressure drops.regardless of the CFM of the compressor,

 

[skidude]

I can't hook up a gun with this setup. The gauge I bought doesn't have both an inlet and an outlet so a gun can be connected at the same time. This is the only type HF had, unless you are referring to a regulator?

Yes, I oiled the gun.

If I'm getting basically the same pressure at the end of the hose as there is at the regulator, then how can there be a restriction?

Why do I need a regulator anyway if the tank will only go to 155? Is there any harm in just running the compressor without a regulator? I can already do almost 110 at the end of the hose.

 

[Citation]

Whats the pressure gauge show when you squeeze the trigger?

This.

98-99 is what you should see when the you aren't using the gun. Even with a great setup I would expect a few psi drop. If you are actually seeing 98-99 when the trigger is pulled then your regulator gauge is reading a bit low and you have no issues with flow related losses.

 

[skidude]

I found an inline gauge and used a male QD to attach my gun. With the tank pressure at 135 and the regulator set to 90, I adjusted the inline gauge to 90. Guess what the inline gauge read under load? 10!

 

[Citation]

Start by setting the regulator to full on. It's probably the part most likely to give you trouble.

 

[skidude]

Even though I'm getting 90psi at the gun?

 

[HotelMike]

You need to get the psi under load up. Max out your regulator. If that doesn't work remove it and try without. The 90 psi you are measuring is static pressure. Something is restricting your airflow.

 

[maxchevy]

Have a similar set up, Northern tool/northstar 20 gallon with 5.0 cfm and 3/8" 50 ft. hose. I switched to 3/8" industrial quick connects. Also made sure I have no leaks at any connections. With regulator set between 100-110 psi my CM "professional" impact (600 ft.-lbs.) breaks lugs on my truck at 140 ft.-lbs. with ease.

Previous to this set up I had a 33 Gal CM with an exaggerated 6.4 CFM , using 3/8" hose (25') with 1/4" quick connects. Set up also had several leaks. I could not break the same lug nuts with the same gun.

 

[skidude]

Thanks for the info. By switching to 3/8" I assume you upgraded all the way back the compressor: Including the 3/8" hose (with it's 1/4" fittings to a 1/2" hose (with it's larger 3/8" fittings) and the 3/8" quick connectors, including the 1/4" one that came on the Northstar compressor. Then the only bottleneck would be the CM gun, which I imagine is a 1/4" inlet.

 

[Citation]

I don't think you need to change out the fittings yet. Verify the problem isn't a bad regulator first. Connect a 1/4 female fitting upstream of the regulator (you can remove it as a test). Then try the wrench again. Its possible your regulator is messed up thus it can dial a pressure but not handle the flow rate.

 

[md21722]

I read all this posts pretty quickly, but it sounds like the regulator is bad or rated for very, very low CFM.... 10 PSI at the tool with the regulator? LOL. What pressures does the compressor cycle on and off? It is common to lose about 20 PSI through a 50' hose. I would not spend any more money on fittings at this time. Step 1, remove the regulator and see what the gun does. You aren't going to blow it up by not having a regulator for a little bit.

 

[Schurkey]

Forgot the mention pressures. Tank pressure 155, and the highest regulator pressure I can get from it is 110

You need 90 psi at the inlet to the air tool, WITH THE TOOL RUNNING. If the tool isn't running, the air pressure test is WORTHLESS.

Take the regulator OFF, put it on a shelf somewhere. Thread a ball valve into the tank, thread the hose into the ball valve. Use ONE quick-coupler, at the far end of the hose. I would install a Milton V or some competing high-flow coupling (and matching coupler plugs on the whip-hoses of your tools.)

A thousand years ago, a 1/2" drive air wrench such as a IR231 or CP734 would have had less than 300 ft/lbs of torque. This is less than a good current-production 3/8 impact wrench. They had NO problem removing lug nuts.

My ancient MAC AW160 3/8 air wrench has no problems with lug nuts, and it doesn't offer half the torque of a modern 3/8.

Do you have the air adjustment ON THE TOOL set to full-power? My Snap-On IM510B tended to dial itself down to nothing. Pull the trigger and the anvil would spin slowly. Reset the power knob, and it did pretty good.

 

[skidude]

I put a ball valve in place of the regulator. When I turn it on the motor runs but the compressor won't start. What am I doing wrong?

 

[Schurkey]

I have no idea how the motor can run but not the compressor.

Belt broken??? Coupler between motor and compressor broken?

 

[skidude]

It was near dark when I tried the ball valve test. Today is the light I found Schurkey was right. I had to unbolt and move the compressor from it's mount in order to screw off the regulator. When I turned it on and didn't hear the compressor, the compressor unit moved and loosened the belt.

With the belt tight I tried again and, of course, the compressor fired up. Tested the impact again under load. With tank pressure at max of 135, rather than the pressure gauge dropping to 10 lbs under load as before, I now had 100 without load and 90 with load.

Does this mean all is operating as designed, but the regulator is bad?

 

[Jbullfrog]

The regulator is working, but the 1/8" passage in the regulator is killing your air flow. If you want the regulator, plumb a tee in at the tank and run one side direct and the other thru the regulator.

 

[firebox40dash5]

The regulator is working, but the 1/8" passage in the regulator is killing your air flow. If you want the regulator, plumb a tee in at the tank and run one side direct and the other thru the regulator.

^ That... a little rinky-dink regulator that's gonna come with a homeowner-ish portable compressor isn't going to flow nearly enough to effectively run an impact, or other high-volume tool.

A 'real' regulator that's 5x the size can flow enough to keep up... but IMO it's not needed. You want to crank it to at LEAST 100psi to keep close to 90psi at the far end of the hose in use, and since your tank is only 135psi, you're not gonna hurt anything running full tank pressure. Everything in the shop I worked in was tank pressure, with the compressor turning off at 150, and didn't hurt anything. I wouldn't worry unless the tank pressure was closer to 175.

For other uses (like a nail gun) the regulator is necessary, but a lot of those applications (besides maybe painting or blasting) that rinky-dink regulator will suffice.

 

[Citation]

I'm going to say the old regulator isn't working and now that has been proven. While I totally believe a small regulator is going to choke off a lot of flow, choking 135 (or even just 100) down to 10 is really bad. Also, that sort of restriction should have been seen at the gauge just down stream of the regulator (and at the pressure gauge at the tool). Either way, if it works fine without the regulator you might try putting it back to verify the problem then get a replacement.

 

[Schurkey]

If you have only 135 in the tank, you DO NOT NEED a regulator to use an air tool at the end of 50 feet of hose.

In fact, without 135 in the tank, the air tool will be starving for pressure.

 

[JoJoSnap]

If you have only 135 in the tank, you DO NOT NEED a regulator to use an air tool at the end of 50 feet of hose.

In fact, without 135 in the tank, the air tool will be starving for pressure.

Right on


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[anndel]

I had a California Air Tools 10 gal compressor running an Aircat 1150 and it could rip 1 wheel off before the compressor kicked in to refill the tank. All wheels are torqued to 76 ft-lbf, running a 50 ft Goodyear 3/8" rubber hose and Milton 1/4" NPT "M" style fittings. I've switched to a Husky 30 gallon 5 HP compressor and IR 2235 QTiMAX or Snap On PT850 impact wrench and the Husky fills up after about the 3rd wheel. Your setup should work. The regulator on both Cal Air tools and Husky are set to about 100 psi allowing for drop at the end of the 50 ft hose to be around 90 psi.

 

[skidude]

The output from the compressor is 1/4" and the regulator fittings are also 1/4" so I'm not sure how it can be upgraded. It seems to me that the welded-on 1/4" threads coming out of the compressor seals it's fate. The regulator has 1/4" fittings both in and out. If I can find an adaptor fitting for the 1/4" compressor output that is 1/4" to 3/8" or larger, then buy a 3/8" or larger regulator, etc., wouldn't the flow still be restricted since its only 1/4" coming from the compressor?

 

[Schurkey]

A short section of 1/4" pipe thread welded to a tank may not be as restrictive as 50' of 3/8" hose.

When I had a portable air compressor, the regulator didn't stay attached long enough to fill the tank the first time. A ball valve is all you need.

 

[skidude]

Question for Anndel: The Aircat has such good reviews I was thinking of getting it, but wondered if its an air hog.

All: Would it be advisable, even though I now have just a ball valve setup, to still upgrade to a hose with 3/8" fittings (maybe a 1/2" hose)? Would that increase air flow to the tool further, even though the tank outlet is just 1/4"?