Impact gun, low torque?

[freebo86]

Hey all, so I have a Husky 1/2" Impact Gun (3 forward settings, 1 reverse). I know this isn't a brand or gun to probably open up a automotive shop with but my question is as follows;

Doing summer to winter tire change over this past weekend, you have the hold the trigger on the gun a fair while in order to undo the lug nut. Now this gun is a hand me down. The sticker on the gun rates it at 350 ft-lbs.

Question is, whats the reason for this? I sort of assumed it shouldn't take that long for me to hold the trigger before the gun breaks the nut loose. Is this an issue with the gun or compressor?

The compressor itself is a 120V unit, 20gal, 5.8cfm at 90psi, oiled. It's not the biggest or baddest compressor out there but for my uses I find its plenty.

The issue I am seeing, is this compressor related or gun? The hose I have running to the gun is 3/8".

 

[L.Cheapo]

350 ftlbs is not a lot, but it should be enough to get the job done if the gun isn't worn out. You say you have 90PSI, where is that measured? At the compressor 90PSI is probably more like 70PSI at the end of the hose with the trigger of the impact pulled.

 

[bcradio]

Could be a number of things unfortunately

 

[freebo86]

350 ftlbs is not a lot, but it should be enough to get the job done if the gun isn't worn out. You say you have 90PSI, where is that measured? At the compressor 90PSI is probably more like 70PSI at the end of the hose with the trigger of the impact pulled.

Well when I say 90 I mean at the regulator thats what its set to.

Could be a number of things unfortunately

Fair enough, thanks. However, how can one rule out a worn gun or what else it may be?

I see guns that are 120$ then I see ones that are $600 on classifieds being used. So clearly there is a difference.

 

[rlitman]

In IR2235TiMax is $290 on Amazon. A Snap On MG725 retails for $505.
What's $600?

 

[gdocktor3]

I feel like Husky and Kobalt type tools are rated at X ft lbs in a perfect world. They're almost never what they say they are and most people are disappointed when they use them. As mentioned, it could be a number of things, all of which are touched upon many times over on the GJ. Do a search and you'll find more than you'd ever like to know. If all you use it for is tire changes once or twice a year, just let it keep banging until the lugs come off. If you plan on doing more work, look into the Harbor Freight Earthquake impact wrench or Aircat. Both brands make extremely powerful impacts that are used commercially every day, but at a very affordable price.

 

[freebo86]

In IR2235TiMax is $290 on Amazon. A Snap On MG725 retails for $505.
What's $600?

Well it was a snap on tool.. it was local classifieds buddy was asking $600 I never looked into it with detail as its way more than i want to spend.

I feel like Husky and Kobalt type tools are rated at X ft lbs in a perfect world. They're almost never what they say they are and most people are disappointed when they use them. As mentioned, it could be a number of things, all of which are touched upon many times over on the GJ. Do a search and you'll find more than you'd ever like to know. If all you use it for is tire changes once or twice a year, just let it keep banging until the lugs come off. If you plan on doing more work, look into the Harbor Freight Earthquake impact wrench or Aircat. Both brands make extremely powerful impacts that are used commercially every day, but at a very affordable price.

Well I am DIYer and do my own work. So a decent impact gun and wrench would be nice.

I just saw a IR 231H on local classifieds for $60. Is this something to even look at? Comes with a 50ft 3/8" hose and reel.

 

[Kenskip1]

If you require a new impact wrench look this one up. It is made by Florida Pneumatic. Has great specks and at a good price.Ken

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-1-2-...11042411&utm_medium=2470763_6147012_11042411#

Have you looked at HF Earthquake? Many like it.

 

[djdaredevil]

Why is the answer always buy a new one?
It sounds like you need to turn up the regulator on your compressor,
and see if that helps first. No the husky guns arent great but for most
at home stuff you should be ok with it if its getting the air it needs.
If that doesnt work open it up and see if you see anything wrong.

If you must buy a new one than H/F earthquakes are about the best bang for buck,
when you find coupons for them.

 

[Sasquatch912]

i wonder how that earthquake impact is at HF..heard it was great

 

[md21722]

Agreed. The 90 psi is the dynamic (working pressure) that the impact wrench sees when operating, as measured at the impact wrench. Not the static pressure at the regulator when nothing is happening. Your regulator needs to be set around 120 PSI for a 1/2" impact and 25' of 3/8" hose... If the hose is longer, it needs to be even more. In other words, let us what the pressure of the tank is when you try, and try it without any regulator at all. That being said, the impact may be weak.

 

[DFB]

I have read elsewhere that even with a 3/8 hose your limited by the 1/4 inch fittings seems HF has a higher flow fitting that allows more air and has come highly recommended on other forums I frequented in past. I never tried it so I don't really know but I should try it now that I have a HF store nearby. What I do know is that I have a couple of lower torque rated air impacts that have never performed well for me at least not by any standards I wanted to see. Plus never did have a big volume compressor which obviously took the heat along with the tool. I have gone cordless now and never looked back.


http://www.harborfreight.com/14-in-x-38-in-automotive-series-coupler-and-plug-kit-4-pc-68187.html

 

[Olafur]

When I take my impacts from the shop and plug them to the "run of the mill" consumer grade air-compressor they usually become gutless. The problem is obvious - low air flow/pressure. (One leads to the other). The usual suspect is air regulator that simply doesn't provide enough flow for impact wrenches.

The remedy is:
1)Make sure the compressor loads the air tank up to at least 110 psi. (this often means 90 psi at the impact when under load)

2)Plumb a connector directly to the tank; bypass air-regulators and whatever is used on said compressor.

3)Use decent size hose and couplers.

Have fun!

 

[hefnerconstructionlc]

May sound real simple, but have you added pneumatic oil to the gun? That always peps them up. Also set your regulator at 120 if you can.

 

[freebo86]

May sound real simple, but have you added pneumatic oil to the gun? That always peps them up. Also set your regulator at 120 if you can.

Actually the first time I tried using the impact I couldn't even remove tiny little 15mm nuts.. so I knew something was off.

After getting a bit more educated and realizing i should add oil it seemed to have improved and now I can use it to actually remove lug nuts however I find that I gotta sit there and hold the trigger for 5-10seconds before it starts to come off... so by the time I get to the 4th tire the compressor kicks in for a 3rd or 4th time..

 

[gdocktor3]

Turn the regulator up, hit a few lug nuts and get back to us before making any decisions. Some say fittings don't matter, I say they do, so I changed all my fittings to 3/8" body automotive style couplers and plugs. Basically, hi flow fittings.

 

[Koolmoose]

Freebo, not to sound like a curmudgeon but it appears that your gun successfully removes the nuts now that you added oil. So what if your gun isn't NASCAR fast! (Having said that I always press the trigger several times on my impact gun after I connect it to the air hose for that "NASCAR pit sound).
+1 on all the rec's for checking your air supply. If you're still not happy with the speed of the gun, then by all means shop. HF has a coupon this month on their top of the line Earthquake gun.
Steve

 

[crerus75]

The inlet to many impact guns is fitted with a mesh screen that's designed to keep debris out of the air motor. Make sure it's not obstructed with teflon tape or debris.

Sometimes the vanes in the air motor stick from varnished oil, especially if the compressor has some blowby. I've had moderately good luck running WD40 and/or Marvel Mystery Oil through the gun to unstick the vanes, followed by regular air tool oil. I've been told (but haven't confirmed) that Chicago Pneumatic spec'd Marvel Mystery Oil as one approved lubricant for its tools a few years back, but I use Mobil Almo 525. For casual use, a quart lasts a LONG time.

Lug nuts can also be troublesome to take off if they were put on with an impact gun last time. If overtorqued, the threads can gall or micro-weld, which requires additional torque to overcome. I usually use anti-seize on lug nuts, and I torque them to spec using a click-type torque wrench.

I have a small plastic squeeze bottle (Walmart has them for 98 cents each) filled with anti-seize that's been thinned down with engine oil. I get it to a consistency somewhere between honey and toothpaste. I keep the bottle on my tool cart and use it for quick and dirty applications like lug nuts. A small dab on each stud is enough, and it's quick. A little goes a long way. I can usually go 4 or 5 tire rotations before I need to reapply.

 

[Murphy4570]

Why do you even have a regulator? Run that ***** wide open, see what happens.

You only need a regulator to step down the air on sanders, cut off tools, die grinders, paint guns, stuff like that. Oil the impact and run it at full line pressure.

Edit: Just saw you have a small compressor. What's the max psi on the thing? Not a lot of volume on that.

 

[MrGiggles]

As mentioned, remove the regulator entirely or set it to tank pressure. 90 psi is the rated pressure under load, not static line pressure. There's a big difference between the two.

350ft lbs is not much by today's standards. A 100 dollar Earthquake will almost triple that.

Make sure you have at least 3/8 hose, and if you have a quick connect at the tank, toss it and use a pipe fitting or hose barb. They restrict flow quite a bit.

It will be night and day after these adjustments.

 

[Derek420]

Your lug nuts might be tight sometimes I put them on without torque wrench or impact and still get them way to tight even tighter than impacts can and then I try to use a 4 way and cannot get it then try breaker bar and socket still can't budge it even if I put all 200 pounds on it by standing and jumping that's when I gotta get out Jack handle cheater pipe and still give it hell. Lol... Im always like damn who put these things on here musta been hurcuales hehe but I know I did it and that's not even after they have been on there for awhile or siezed up. You said you got to hold trigger for 5 to 10 sec thats not that bad buddy you should try that thing on one of my lug nuts. Be like the little engine that could.. I think I can Ithink I can... Try what others said and next time try to take one off by hand and see how tight it really was. I've taken lug nuts off that we're put on by impacts and ones in junk yard rusted to hell and never had an issue like so easy my 4'9 100 pound wife could bust loose but mine are another story.. Tightening each one till I'm sweating and panting he he. Better safe than sorry I had a wheel fall off before after it came loose and sounded like car was gonna fall apart then boom I'm sitting on ground and my wheel just went rolling past me lol.. Had to say f**** it and put it in gear and go just to get out of road luckily was 15ft from driveway.. You should try cordless much more convenient and still strong I bought a Matco 1/2 for $50 with 2 batteries and love it.

 

[Sticks McGee]

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=415415&d=1423844202

Here is what I did on my 30 gal craftsman compressor. I put a T fitting in right near the pop off valve to allow me to bypass the regulator and the tiny fittings. This improves the flow of air getting to the tool. I also have been using the high flow fittings at work for years and I put them on everything at home. Keep a touch of oil in the gun and run the max pressure from the compressor to the tool in the shortest path possible. This WILL make a difference in the performance of an impact gun..

 

[jdlong]

I've had my share of $50 impacts (I'm guessing the Husky is in that range). My 20 gal compressor, rated at 6 CFM or so would kick in moments after hammering on a stubborn bolt or lug and it was hurry up and wait as I waited for the tank to load up. I switched to an Earthquake 1/2" and I have not looked back. The bolt(s) is off before the compressor kicks in. My guess is the $50 impacts waste a lot of air making torque and they consume much more air than what they advertise to consume.

As far as air flow goes, the guys are right. Friction loss, thus pressure drop increases exponentially as the fitting and pipe diameter decreases. By exponential, I mean you take your pipe (or hose) diameters to the 5th power when factoring. Depending on air velocity, a product of CFM, the pressure drop between pipe sizes can be rather substantial. The pressure drop curve remains near flat within the low velocity range. Then it reaches a point where the curve begins to go vertical. This is when you increase pipe or hose size to decrease velocity. The pipe sizing charts are based on this.

 

[freebo86]

As mentioned, remove the regulator entirely or set it to tank pressure. 90 psi is the rated pressure under load, not static line pressure. There's a big difference between the two.

350ft lbs is not much by today's standards. A 100 dollar Earthquake will almost triple that.

Make sure you have at least 3/8 hose, and if you have a quick connect at the tank, toss it and use a pipe fitting or hose barb. They restrict flow quite a bit.

It will be night and day after these adjustments.

What is a quick connect? What i have at the end of the regulator is one of these on the far left; which I've seen pretty common so I dont think thats a quick connect.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=415415&d=1423844202

Here is what I did on my 30 gal craftsman compressor. I put a T fitting in right near the pop off valve to allow me to bypass the regulator and the tiny fittings. This improves the flow of air getting to the tool. I also have been using the high flow fittings at work for years and I put them on everything at home. Keep a touch of oil in the gun and run the max pressure from the compressor to the tool in the shortest path possible. This WILL make a difference in the performance of an impact gun..

I can't quite understand whats going on there in your picture?

 

[JerryC]

Piling on here... Find and replace the smaller ID fittings/components. I used Milton V fittings over HF as they were reported to leak over time, but they are inexpensive by comparison and if you don't use them a lot it may worth trying them.

My compressor and one of my impacts are ~30yrs old and with the Milton fittings will take off lug nuts torqued to 100 ft/lbs easily. It's specs are pretty weak ~300ft-lbs when it was new. I bought a new $29 Husky at HD a couple of years ago when I was figuring this out and it works fine now too. The HF earthquake I have is better than both of those, as would be expected.

One tip I didn't see mentioned is to hold the gun tight up against the nut. Any movement of the gun in your hand isn't working against the nut. Lean into it hard and hold the gun tight and see if that helps.

 

[1Garageman]

Turn your regulator way up. Stand next to your regulator and run the gun in your hand. Watch how low the regulator goes "while using the gun"! You are probably down into the 40's or 50's.

Adjust the regulator so that you are at least in the 90's with the trigger pulled! That will make a big difference.

 

[bczygan]

Shorter and bigger air hose.

If compressor is portable, move it to the work and use extension cord.

Better fittings. Higher through flow.

Bigger tank on compressor or additional tank.

Set regulator higher.

Or:
Use breaker bar.

 

[Davefr]

Turn your regulator way up. Stand next to your regulator and run the gun in your hand. Watch how low the regulator goes "while using the gun"! You are probably down into the 40's or 50's.

Adjust the regulator so that you are at least in the 90's with the trigger pulled! That will make a big difference.

^^^Yes!!! I learned this the hard way.

 

[6PTsocket]

I feel like Husky and Kobalt type tools are rated at X ft lbs in a perfect world. They're almost never what they say they are and most people are disappointed when they use them. As mentioned, it could be a number of things, all of which are touched upon many times over on the GJ. Do a search and you'll find more than you'd ever like to know. If all you use it for is tire changes once or twice a year, just let it keep banging until the lugs come off. If you plan on doing more work, look into the Harbor Freight Earthquake impact wrench or Aircat. Both brands make extremely powerful impacts that are used commercially every day, but at a very affordable price.

HF is a dirty word in some quarters but Their Earthquake series is well reviewed. The current models in that group are rated 700, 800 and 1000 Ft-lbs. I have the predecessor to the small one, for a long time, that I think was rated 625. It works great and I live in the rust belt. Their current ads go head to head with some 1000 ft -lb Snap On gun. Somebody sent in a picture of a twisted extension to show how powerful it is. The 700 ft-lb model is always on sale for $79. The models below this series are garbage with a price to match. When the Earthquakes first came out I assumed that it was to compete with the IR Thunder gun. I found the illustrated parts breakdown for the IR gun and was amazed to see it was the exact same drawing as the HF gun except for the trigger. Probably made in the same Chinese factory. Their guns are much cheaper than the competition and I would buy another in a heartbeat. I have read posts by many, claiming to use them professionally. There is a thread right now saying there is no visible difference between the HF Daytona floor jack and some Snap On model. The folks at Chinese Junk King are getting serious or everybody else is dropping to their level.

 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Hey all, so I have a Husky 1/2" Impact Gun (3 forward settings, 1 reverse). I know this isn't a brand or gun to probably open up a automotive shop with but my question is as follows;

Doing summer to winter tire change over this past weekend, you have the hold the trigger on the gun a fair while in order to undo the lug nut. Now this gun is a hand me down. The sticker on the gun rates it at 350 ft-lbs.

Question is, whats the reason for this? I sort of assumed it shouldn't take that long for me to hold the trigger before the gun breaks the nut loose. Is this an issue with the gun or compressor?

The compressor itself is a 120V unit, 20gal, 5.8cfm at 90psi, oiled. It's not the biggest or baddest compressor out there but for my uses I find its plenty.

The issue I am seeing, is this compressor related or gun? The hose I have running to the gun is 3/8".

Had the same experience...

I was using a bit size converter. Use a solid socket on the thing. The connection will eat the impacting energy and you'll be disappointed in your tool.

The difference is far greater than you would be lead to believe.

 

[freebo86]

I did use impact sockets on it.

I see everyone raving about this earthquake gun from HF unfortunately I am down in Canada so we don't have a HF.. we have a Princess Auto. Which appears to be a equivalent however it doesn't have said gun.

I'm gonna try it with cranking up the regulator at max. What I can also do I have a small 3gallon compressor thats been around for a while and personally I found the regulator on that compressor seemed better & sturdier might just swap the two regulators and see maybe the one I got is garbage..

 

[MrGiggles]

What is a quick connect? What i have at the end of the regulator is one of these on the far left; which I've seen pretty common so I dont think thats a quick connect.

I can't quite understand whats going on there in your picture?

Yes, that's a quick connect coupler.

Ditch it and install a ball valve and hose barb in its place, or screw your hose directly onto the manifold.

You only want one quick connect at the end of your hose.

 

[freebo86]

So your saying to add this basically after my regulator? And then just hose clamp the hose down to that??

 

[Sticks McGee]

IMO a better option would be a ball valve that you can just thread the 1/4 NPT end of your hose into. Otherwise you have to cut the crimped end off and slide the hose over the barb and hose clamp it. That is a big no-no for us at work on any air line..

 

[KMdef9]

What is a quick connect? What i have at the end of the regulator is one of these on the far left; which I've seen pretty common so I dont think thats a quick connect.

Those are 1/4 fittings. Go to HF and buy this kit:
http://www.harborfreight.com/14-in-x-38-in-automotive-series-coupler-and-plug-kit-4-pc-68187.html

Replace all of you're old fittings on the compressor and your tools.

While your there, buy a gauge, a NPT "T" fitting and some couplers to make a air pressure tester for the end of your air line.

Once your're one all your fittings have been replaced and you have 90+ psi at the end of your line under load (you'll never get 90 psi free spinning), you'll def. see an improvement.

If all that doesn't work, then I'd look into a new tool. If you can afford the IR, that's where my recommendation goes. Don't buy the over prices snap-on. If your budget is less than that, alot of people say the HF earthquake is a great bang for your buck.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

The biggest restriction is the air hose (3/8" ID typically) itself usually, 25 or 50'. The fittings play a very small role... they won't "make or break" a setup. Also those 3/8" lines have NPT fittings on the ends that themselves are restrictions, close to 1/4" QD fittings.

Personally I use Milton M-type fittings for everything and never had issues (impact, small blast cabinet, HVLP, etc...). I would only attached a hose directly in a permanent/hard line compressor setup.

I would leave the fittings alone, turn up the regulator and if you want to spend some $... buy the shortest air hose that's practice.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

Don't buy cheap fittings at HD, Lowes or HF. Quality Milton, Parker, Foster 1/4" QD can be had for $5-10 each and $2-3 for the ******* (Amazon, eBay, Grainger, Zoro, local hydraulic supply, etc...)

 

[KMdef9]

So your saying to add this basically after my regulator? And then just hose clamp the hose down to that??

Be careful of some of those fittings. Inspect the inside of them, sometimes the inside diameter is the same as a coupler, so there's no point in hacking up your line.

First, just try hooking your hose directly up to the tank, using the least of fittings possible. Obviously not reducing the size anymore.

If you're still unhappy, you can try doing this next.

 

[sberry]

The hose barb is only so big. There are slight differences but it doesn't matter if it has a 1/4 or a 3/8 fitting and a common air connector only adds a pinch to a 3/8 hose at 25 ft and means a little less on a 50 ft hose. If the air is adequate its totally irrelevant. Only under extreme load would most of this matter and if its the case one likely has the wrong compressor.

 

[sberry]

The biggest restriction is the air hose (3/8" ID typically) itself usually, 25 or 50'. The fittings play a very small role... they won't "make or break" a setup. Also those 3/8" lines have NPT fittings on the ends that themselves are restrictions, close to 1/4" QD fittings.

Personally I use Milton M-type fittings for everything and never had issues (impact, small blast cabinet, HVLP, etc...). I would only attached a hose directly in a permanent/hard line compressor setup.

I would leave the fittings alone, turn up the regulator and if you want to spend some $... buy the shortest air hose that's practice.

This is pretty good and goes after the low hanging fruit. All pretty much cheap easy and maybe even free.
But as to the OP, if it was working yesterday, quit all in a week its highly unlikely it wore out but that something went wrong?
I know a bunch of auto body types, shops, mechanics and even a plumber don't give a dam about all this fitting size stuff, they plug it in, it works, they use it. The trades been using this stuff forever since they invented it but now wre suddenly decide it wont work for us in the burbs?
I will admit I would change if I was starting again today for a couple reasons and the modern hi flow may serve 3/4 tools anyway. Ease of connection would be another one and simple design skills would be another as I learned to supply more with less and get rid of the hy7drant idea way in the beginning and go to hose reels for these applications like they should be anyway, save the extra from connectors and fittings and apply to reels right up front.