Tree Cutter
Well-known member
Is a 3/8 line enough or do I need 1/2 lines to get the gun working at full power? The compressor specs are, 5 HP 60 gal 120 PSI 12 CFM
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Impact gun question
- Thread starter Tree Cutter
- Start date
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Bigger is better and there are a few different "high flow" couplers out there.
Most 1/2" drive impacts don't need more than 4-5 CFM typically at about 100 PSI. Having said that, watch this video:
Air Pressure : Working PSI - VS - Static PSI
Big air volume items are sand blasters, die grinder, cut off wheels, sanders. 12 CFM @ 120 PSI is a lot of air !
Most 1/2" drive impacts don't need more than 4-5 CFM typically at about 100 PSI. Having said that, watch this video:
Air Pressure : Working PSI - VS - Static PSI
Big air volume items are sand blasters, die grinder, cut off wheels, sanders. 12 CFM @ 120 PSI is a lot of air !
sberry
Banned
It depends on how hard you need it to hit, but mostly how far. 2x the distance 2x the resistance. At 50 ft thru a reel it needs about 135 in to make 90 at a heavy 1/2 gun.
I had a stuck bolt in a tractor the other day and the gun wouldn't do it, went around the reg and used a 15 ft hose and it worked,,, but this is a very rare occasion.
BTW, a 1/2 gun needs over 20 at full power, if it was only 5 we wouldn't be worring about losses.
I had a stuck bolt in a tractor the other day and the gun wouldn't do it, went around the reg and used a 15 ft hose and it worked,,, but this is a very rare occasion.
BTW, a 1/2 gun needs over 20 at full power, if it was only 5 we wouldn't be worring about losses.
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sberry
Banned
With only 120 in you will need a 1/2 hose for full power at 50 ft. As 140 can drop down a size.
Schurkey
Well-known member
You can throw away the regulator, and run the largest hose you can find. If you've only got 120 (max) to play with, you need EVERY BIT OF PRESSURE YOU CAN GET. For all practical purposes, you WON'T have full-power air tools most of the time--I bet that compressor can't keep 100 psi in the tank while you're working.
I couldn't take more than four minutes of that ****. I had to close that window. That could be a two-minute video instead of nine. Yap, yap, yap...the guy never shuts up.
He's on the right track--although he could be MUCH less irritating about it--when he discusses the difference between static and working pressure.
The main problem is that he has the pressure gauge tapped-into the wrong place. The pressure gauge should be at the entry to the air tool, AFTER all the hose instead of before the hose. The restriction to the tool is even worse than he's showing.
I need 135--140 at the regulator to get 90 at the tool, and I'm using 3/4 iron pipe and 1/2" hose at one tap, and about 5 feet of 3/4 copper tubing, and 3/8 hose at the other. I suspect my couplers are some of the problem.
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matt_i
Well-known member
My experience is with a 1/2" square drive gun on a reasonable amount of 3/8" ID hose, lets just put a stake in 50 feet total, you should be very good.
You get into problems, in my experience, when you bust out the 3/4" sq drive gun. Then you need the 1/2" ID air hose.
You get into problems, in my experience, when you bust out the 3/4" sq drive gun. Then you need the 1/2" ID air hose.
matt_i
Well-known member
3/4" sq drive breaker bar >> 1/2" air impact >> anything battery when it comes to unsticking the impossibly frozen, or, at least failing the fastener in torsion so you can start work on another problem 
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
I should find a decent pressure gauge and build a rig, so that I know what I have !
maxpower_hd
Well-known member
I have 50' of hose running through a reel and have no issues running my impact on 3/8 hose. I do have the pressure cranked up to about 135 though. You don't need the 12 CFM. You only need somewhere around 3-5. You need more pressure is all. I tested mine with a regulator at several impact tools and at 135 at my wall regulator I am between 90-100 at the tool. I obviously don't work with a regulator attached to every tool.
It is better at work with more pressure but it is fine for what I do at home.
It is better at work with more pressure but it is fine for what I do at home.
A**holes Garage
Banned
If you don't have the compressor that can handle it, and you don't need major torque, consider an electric impact.
OP
Tree Cutter
Well-known member
Or you ditch the air hose all together ............for the battery impact
I was thinking about a Milwaukee m18 1/2 impact. Can it bust wheel nuts off tractor trailer size wheels? I have a Ford f 750 truck.
Attachments
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OP
Tree Cutter
Well-known member
What about high flow air couplings?
Richard Cranium
Well-known member
I am not a pro, I use a 3/8 hose on my impact and it hasn't let me down, But I don't twist them off with the air either.
Not to derail the hose size question.......
Not sure on the tractor trailer wheel ..........but I have not used my 1/2" or 3/4" air impact since purchasing the M18 impact. I believe there are tests of the battery impact delivering 900-1000 ft lbs.
http://www.toolboxbuzz.com/automoti...-m18-fuel-impact-wrench-review-model-2763-22/
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OP
Tree Cutter
Well-known member
Well before I buy one I would like to see if anyone on here uses one for that first.
I wonder if a new IR 2135 impact gun would be a lot stronger than my old IR 2130 I think it is or is a a 2131?
Bondo
Well-known member
Ayuh,.... Go with the 2235 IR,... it's a Beast,...
I bought one, 'n took a front tire off a ford backhoe that hadn't been off in years,..
As a life long Mechanic, I was Impressed with it,....
Money well spent,...
I bought one, 'n took a front tire off a ford backhoe that hadn't been off in years,..
As a life long Mechanic, I was Impressed with it,....
Money well spent,...
jloehlein
Well-known member
If you can go bigger, get the 1/2" line. As stated, you'll get better performance, though you may not need it. I've used 50' of 3/8" hose on my 30 gallon compressor for the last 15 years before getting a bigger compressor and never had any issues on typical automotive stuff.
TractorJeff
Well-known member
I run large bore couplers on my 1/2" hose connecting my 3/4"IR. It will twist almost any bolt off that it can't unscrew!
Length is restriction like these guys are pointing out but I add the coupler into that equation also.
Length is restriction like these guys are pointing out but I add the coupler into that equation also.
I would not buy a cordless impact for heavy truck lugs... Yeah sure it might take them off but then it's not uncommon for a 3/4 impact with 150 psi behind it to fail completely.
I can't tell in the picture if you're budd wheels or hub pilot, if it's budd I wouldn't even bother getting a 1/2" gun out, if it's hub pilot the Milwaukee might take them off fine.
sberry
Banned
If truck wheels were the point I would try the new battery tool. By reliable accounts they work very well and would be cheaper than air.
sberry
Banned
3 to 5 won't even turn the tool.
OP
Tree Cutter
Well-known member
Here are the lugs on the 2013 Ford F750 in question.
OP
Tree Cutter
Well-known member
maxpower_hd
Well-known member
Here is a link to the largest of my guns. It only requires 5.2 CFM for FULL power. My other guns require less. So it will easily turn the tool and quite possible at full power depending on the gun.
Maybe 4-6 would have been more accurate but I was thinking off the top of my head. The point is you don't need ALL the CFM your compressor can muster to run the gun, especially if you only need it for short bursts.
https://store.snapon.com/1-2-Drive-...avy-Duty-Magnesium-Impact-Wrench-P646291.aspx
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sberry
Banned
Someone confused the industrial average with the actual. That isn't right. If it was there would be no debate about hose size and it would run from 1/4. Even input pressures that fall below 130 dont deliver full power to a 1/2 down a 3/8 hose.
Schurkey
Well-known member
Click on the specifications tab of that linked Snap-On web site.
I have that same impact wrench.
The thing needs 5.2 cfm when you pull the trigger with NO LOAD.
I have that same impact wrench.
ixlr8
Well-known member
I have a IR2135 gun, didn't seem all that strong, I used 3/8" hose with Type L connector. I changed out the "L" connector with a Milton high flow connector and there was a major difference in gun performance, it was like I had a new gun. I wouldn't worry too much about the 3/8" line, as long as it is not more than 50' long. BUT I would make sure to highest flowing connectors you can get.
WhiffySpark
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2009
- Messages
- 6,252
No it won't
My 2235 won't take of a school bus nuts running 1 inch pipe and 3/4 airlines
1 inch gun for that. Maybe 3/4 if you have the perfect setup
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
If the lug were cleaned with a wire brush, lightly oiled and the lug nut tightened down to the proper spec, and loosened and re-tightened once a year, I would say you have a 99% chance of an M18 Fuel removing them. Skip on of those and the probability goes down. Miss them all and your are probably down to around 50%.
What is the torque spec on a tractor trailer of medium duty tuck lug nut ? Class 2-4 is usually around 150 ft-lbs.
GTA Matt
Well-known member
torque spec on an f650/750 is 450-500 ft/lbs. Need a stout gun with an adequate air supply if you want 100% success rate and not a whole lot of waiting around between lugs. Personally, I would skip right over a 1/2" gun and go right to a good 3/4 gun with a 1/2" line.
450-500 ft-lbs, if you torque by book (drop of oil between the flange and the hex only, threads and mating surface must be dry) and you're taking them off the next day a 1/2" will work. If not you need a strong 3/4 and a lot of air pressure at minimum.
Now the flip side to this is if all you have to install said wheels is a 1/2" gun they will not be tight enough and they will get loose. You can stop a 2135Ti and it's usually another 1/2 turn to get to 450 ft-lbs.
914wilhelm
Well-known member
When I was trying to remove the blade from my brush hog with a 1" impact I got no where until I ran the air into a 7 gallon portable tank (I was 25' from my compressor) and then used 3' of 1/2" line from the portable tank to the impact. Even at that it took a few tries. It was something like an 1 1/8" stud at 400 ft/lbs before it was rusted and beaten on by mowing rocks.
WhiffySpark
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2009
- Messages
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Not going to happen my 2235 won't even budge them half the time.
Those torque numbers people list on the guns for advertising are a bunch of fluff. You should know that
Schurkey
Well-known member
So I started researching couplers and plugs. I've used numerous styles as I moved to different shops, and finally settled on Automotive Interchange/Tru-Flate ("T" style) for my home shop. I now see that as a mistake. Automotive compression testers and cylinder leak-down testers tend to use Industrial Interchange/Milton ("M" style) couplers and plugs; and it would be nice to be able to push shop air directly into the cylinder adapters. I was already considering switching from "T" style plugs to "M" style plugs; in fact one of my couplers is a "Universal" design. By "Universal", I mean that it will accept M(ilton), A(RO), and T(ru-Flate) plugs, although at least the Tru-Flate plugs leak like mad and piss me off to no end. There doesn't seem to be enough sealing surface on the ultra-short "T" style coupler plugs.
I looked through Milton and Lincoln catalogs, and saw some specs for the Prevost couplers. (All of these in the usual 1/4" size) There's no guarantee that they use the same test protocol--but--my "Tru-Flate" "T" style coupler, and my "Universal" coupler have a flow rate of 38 SCFM. The ARO ("A" style) and the expensive Prevost couplers are about the same. My impact wrench uses 37 SCFM. No wonder I have restriction--I'm on the high end of air usage before the tool even gets loaded-down.
Industrial Interchange/Milton "M" style couplers 'n' plugs seem to be good for a bit more--about 45 SCFM. Lincoln "L" style couplers will go to 52 SCFM.
The real winner in this group is the Milton-brand "V" style coupler. 72 SCFM in a 1/4" coupler, when used with the matching "V" plugs, AND the coupler will accept M (Industrial Interchange) and "A" (ARO) style plugs, at reduced SCFM. So this coupler will also plug-into my compression tester and cylinder-leakage adapters. The flow rate advertised for these 1/4" couplers is higher than they're claiming for my MIlton "H" 3/8 couplers that I use for the 3/4" impact wrench! Suspicious.
I have a set of Milton "V" style couplers and plugs on order. There are multitudinous part numbers, but a convenient set of two couplers and four plugs is Milton p/n S-217. $18, maybe less depending on where you source it. I will need a sh!tload of additional plugs, 1/4 male pipe thread, in brass, is S-760, or female is S-761, either just under $10 for a two-pack.
Thousands of years ago, I was given an Oetiker air coupler by the Oetiker rep. He described it as "High Flow". The design was unlike all the others, it was quite unique. I'm not saying it was "handy", or "good", but it was unmistakable, and interesting. I handed it to another employee, and never saw it again. I can't find specs, but the company claims no air pressure loss through them.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004FCO8L6/?tag=atomicindus08-20
I ordered one of those, too.
If the high-flow couplers and plugs work like I hope, someone is going to get a great deal on a heap of "T" style plugs, and a few couplers.
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Jim Diesel
Well-known member
I am a heavy diesel mech and i find the milwaukee is suitable for most jobs im doing with ample run time. That being said we still use 1 inch guns with dual half inch hoses for some of the bigger jobs that pop up, like old style "J Beam" bushes or the rusted Ring Feeder master nuts.
maxpower_hd
Well-known member
At work we torque tractor and trailer wheels to 500. With dirt and rust build up, even when applying oil and such to the lugs and nuts when installed, the 1/2" guns still won't touch em. The 3/4" gun doesn't even do it. We have one of the splined ones shown in the earlier posts for that.
maxpower_hd
Well-known member
I had an issue too with the old reel I had. It was also a 3/8" hose but it had a lot of small fittings/adapters to make it fit, an old hose and a clamp sort of crimping off the hose inside the reel. This was an old one from the 70's that stopped reeling. I bought a new one and got rid of those restrictions and it works a lot better.
And for the record, I never said it was perfect. In fact I said it doesn't work as good as it does at work. But it works fine for everything I do at home. I haven't come across a lug or a bolt I couldn't remove at home yet. The only exception are ones that are so rusty they have to be broken or cut off. I do use the automotive style fittings I get from work so that might be part of it. I also have a short run to the reel. Maybe I just got lucky.