Impact sockets vs Modern wheels

[Bennylava]

Something I've been running into lately. Impact sockets not really wanting to fit in the lug hole, of a set of modern wheels. I got this newer mercedes in, and the impact socket just wouldn't fit in the hole. This is about the 4rth car in as many months where I've had this problem. So I ended up just using a regular socket, attached to a breakover bar. I don't like doing that, because the less tired I can be at the end of the work day, the better off I'll be. I'm always trying to work smarter, not harder.

Anyone else run into this problem, and by what means did you finally solve it? I have had several different brands of impact sockets over the years, and it never fails that I end up coming across a vehicle that has wheels that the impact sockets just won't work with. So I'd like to hear what you guys do, to defeat this problem.

 

[mobiledynamics]

nothing new....you just need thinwall 17, 19mm, etc.

 

[Heel2toe]

They have thin walled impact sockets that are designed specifically for this. Often times they have a plastic casing around the socket to protect from damaging the rim. Something like this should serve you well:
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-drive-sae-metric-lug-nut-impact-sockets-7-pc-69781.html

 

[Bennylava]

They have thin walled impact sockets that are designed specifically for this. Often times they have a plastic casing around the socket to protect from damaging the rim. Something like this should serve you well:
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-drive-sae-metric-lug-nut-impact-sockets-7-pc-69781.html

Thanks!

Can anyone speak as to their durability? I have to ask because of the "thin wall" label they're given.

 

[visionguru]

Something I've been running into lately. Impact sockets not really wanting to fit in the lug hole, of a set of modern wheels. I got this newer mercedes in, and the impact socket just wouldn't fit in the hole. This is about the 4rth car in as many months where I've had this problem. So I ended up just using a regular socket, attached to a breakover bar. I don't like doing that, because the less tired I can be at the end of the work day, the better off I'll be. I'm always trying to work smarter, not harder.

Anyone else run into this problem, and by what means did you finally solve it? I have had several different brands of impact sockets over the years, and it never fails that I end up coming across a vehicle that has wheels that the impact sockets just won't work with. So I'd like to hear what you guys do, to defeat this problem.

1/2" or 3/8" drive? The 3/8"s are a lot slimmer than the 1/2".

 

[Heel2toe]

Thanks!

Can anyone speak as to their durability? I have to ask because of the "thin wall" label they're given.

Unfortunately, I don't have any personal experience with them so I cannot. I do have some ordinary HF impact sockets and they've held up fine. I only sent you that link to give you an idea of what I was referring to. i'd imagine many other brands make something similar to that.

I will say that they are rated for impact duty so they should be fairly durable. Of course with the thin wall they should in theory fail before normal impact sockets. But youre torquing down lug nuts not busting axle nuts with them so for the 110ft/lbs max or so that they'll see they should be fine. Certainly better than using a chrome socket.

 

[md21722]

The tool trucks have thin wall impacts too. Here is one from MAC:

http://www.mactools.com/en-us/Brake...-SET/5-PC-Metric-Thin-Wall-Impact-Socket-Set-

They are a bit thinner than 3/8" impact sockets.

 

[Bennylava]

1/2" or 3/8" drive? The 3/8"s are a lot slimmer than the 1/2".

1/2" drive. I'd need to use an adapter to go 3/8" drive.

 

[WhiffySpark]

They all crack. Doesn't matter what brand you buy. My Matco set got warranties every 3-4 months.

I brought an atd set to try. I think they can be had for $60

I'm not A HF fan

 

[T45]

Thanks!

Can anyone speak as to their durability? I have to ask because of the "thin wall" label they're given.

These are the correct tools for the job, a set is $30-50 bucks w/sleeves.

They are not durable--but that is the cost of using the correct tool.

Some manufacturers dont/wont warranty them out, and the tire shop guys say the last about a year under heavy workload and then wear out or crack.

A home DIy should get plenty of life out of them. Other users can extend the life of thinwalls by using them as needed

... for clearances and not for general purpose. Apex also makes thinwall mid-deeps in 38mm long x 3/8 drive, if you need to spread the wear around multiple tools to prolong life.

 

[DeadPedal]

I have a set from Astro pneumatic that have held up well to home and racing use.

http://m.sears.com/astro-pneumatic-...gclid=CID_hoTy29ECFYmLswodcOUO8Q&gclsrc=aw.ds


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Showkey]

Many of the lug nut sockets with the plastic insert on the inside are NOT impact rated.

 

[JJThrasher]

Thin wall flip socket = $20. Pop a chrome on the gun and run her off = free.

 

[Heel2toe]

Many of the lug nut sockets with the plastic insert on the inside are NOT impact rated.

Interesting I didnt know that. So is the assumption that you use a breaker bar to remove the nuts and also use them with the torque wrench? If I can't zip em off with the gun then they serve no purpose to me I'll pass. Its funny because I was thinking of picking up a set. I assumed they were all impact rated given the intended use. Bummer

 

[LXCam]

Good luck fitting those sleeved sockets on anything other than a general rim especially something really nice, they don't fit.

Thin wall flip socket = $20. Pop a chrome on the gun and run her off = free.

Yup. I'll use an impact for removing them on most stock rims. And for installation I'll start by hand then run them on with my cordless impact just enough to barely seat the rim. After that it's all about a torque wrench.

Many of the builds I work on have rims that average a grand a piece. The last thing I'll use is anything that could really sling a socket off so for those I'll break them loose with a breaker bar, then my cordless.

But if I worked in a shop it might be a different story.

 

[Bennylava]

They are not durable--but that is the cost of using the correct tool.

Could you please elaborate a bit on what you mean by this? Can't tell if you mean in this particular instance, or if you're speaking generally.


Next, to revisit my "thin wall" question. ... They are stronger, right? I mean you'd think they'd have to be, if they're going to be called "impact sockets". The walls don't seem to be any thicker on an impact socket, than on a regular chrome socket.

 

[T45]

Could you please elaborate a bit on what you mean by this? Can't tell if you mean in this particular instance, or if you're speaking generally.

Next, to revisit my "thin wall" question. ... They are stronger, right? I mean you'd think they'd have to be, if they're going to be called "impact sockets". The walls don't seem to be any thicker on an impact socket, than on a regular chrome socket.

Read my comment again, I elaborated on it quite specfically. The sockets wear out within about a year if used professionally. Because of this, they are most usually excluded from "lifetime warranty" programs, even from brands that promote them for most tools (ie, they are considered consumable).

Thin walls are strictly for obstruction issues and enhanced access.

(This may be counter-intuitive if you are used to buying expesive chrome sockets because they are higher quality tool steel and drawn thinner as a result. An impact socket is just teh same socket thinned out on a lathe).

Lastly, imact sockets are in no way "stronger" than other sockets in general. And thin wall impacts are just regular impacts but weaker. The physical makeup of the metal is more plastic and less hard--that is how it avoids cracking from a single or multiple hammer blows. But it will deform with less force than a harder metal alloy like CrV.

This deformation is why you cannot chrome impacts, because the elastic deformation is inconsistent with the integrity of chromium plating (ie, it flakes and comes off creating many issues).

Hope this helps.

 

[Gmonkee]

Unless you are a tire shop type guy most never pull off and put enough tires in a day to wear down using just a breaker bar.

Its all I use actually and I do a lot of brakes. Regular mix and match halfer sockets get them all including the rare luxury car we see. No fit issues at all. No damage to the rims.

If its a delicate car or rims worth ten times your payday just take the time to do them by hand.
It really won't hurt payday much.

 

[brandon523]

I have both of these sets from Grey Pneumatic:

1500DW | 1/2" Drive Deep Length Extra-Thin Wall Impact Set

1511TP | 1/2" Drive Deep Length Protector Impact Set

So far the only issues I've had after a year and a half of use is the 19mm & 22mm from the 1500DW set cracked. I replaced them with Snap On thin walls. I've had a couple of the plastic sleeves on the 1511TP set crack, but the actual sockets themselves are fine.

 

[superautobacs]

Ko-ken makes a really nice thin-wall impact wheel socket that I've been using for several years now. I wrote about them a couple times, including photos, and I've linked them below.



http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3438082&postcount=84

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4362000&postcount=148

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4370962&postcount=156

Ko-ken part # is: 14145PM.110

 

[matt_i]

If you own a lathe just turn down the OD enough to make it work, probably .020-.030" diametral clearance is fine. Obviously it weakens the structure some, but they are pretty cheap, if you don't want to jack up your nice matched set then just buy a couple of singles. An impact socket is a very nice turning material...I don't know exactly what, suspect its 4130/4140/4340.

 

[vette-kid]

I have a set of the lugnut sockets similar to the HF listed earlier in this thread. I cant remember if they are HF or something else (I can look when I get home), but they have held up fine. Im not changing a wheel every day, but I have had them for probably 8 years now for routine mx on 4 vehicles and rebuilding one. So they have been well used. I typically only use them with the craftsman C3 impact or a lug wrench though. I DO NOT expect they would do well under a 500lb-ft wrench...at least not for long.

 

[DerekV]

I used to exclusively use an impact socket with electrical tape around it and that served me well for over 10 years, but I wanted something a little more delicate when I got my new set of BBS rims.

I searched a lot of places and finally ended up settling on the Husky set from HD. Made in Taiwan and the only reasonably-priced non-tooltruck set I could find that has a 100% hassle-free lifetime warranty. The HFT set does NOT have a lifetime warranty AND it's more expensive. I asked myself: "if I'm only really ever gonna use 17 and MAYBE 19mm (German cars only), why bother with a thorough SAE/Metric set?" So yeah, disclaimer: it only comes with 17, 19, and 21mm.

Plus there are HD's everywhere. And they're actually pretty nice...impact-rated chromo...nice little case...nylon sleeve and bushing on outside and inside (respectively)...the whole 9.

I don't know, just a option.

 

[Wakefield]

Ko-ken makes a really nice thin-wall impact wheel socket that I've been using for several years now. I wrote about them a couple times, including photos, and I've linked them below.



http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3438082&postcount=84

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4362000&postcount=148

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4370962&postcount=156

Ko-ken part # is: 14145PM.110

About a year ago someone had a flat on a VW product and the lug BOLTS were very tight (17 mm. wrench size) and on one of them I got scared pulling very hard on that KoKen 17 mm. but "discretion being the better part of valor" I chickened out before either breaking the socket or getting the lug loose-I got out the old Bonney ! impact socket (fortunately had room) and with an obscene amount of pulling on the 24" S*K bar the lug let go with a horrible sound as if something busted but everything turned out O.K.
so I don't know if the KoKen could have stood that pull or not!

 

[superautobacs]

About a year ago someone had a flat on a VW product and the lug BOLTS were very tight (17 mm. wrench size) and on one of them I got scared pulling very hard on that KoKen 17 mm. but "discretion being the better part of valor" I chickened out before either breaking the socket or getting the lug loose-I got out the old Bonney ! impact socket (fortunately had room) and with an obscene amount of pulling on the 24" S*K bar the lug let go with a horrible sound as if something busted but everything turned out O.K.
so I don't know if the KoKen could have stood that pull or not!

Given the choices of using either the Ko-ken or the Bonney impact socket, I would've done the same thing you did.

That being said, impact sockets are designed to withstand repetitive torsional impacts; chrome sockets are designed to withstand constant torsional loads. If I was provided with the option of using either an impact socket or a chrome socket with a breaker bar, I would use the chrome socket.

 

[Bennylava]

About a year ago someone had a flat on a VW product and the lug BOLTS were very tight (17 mm. wrench size) and on one of them I got scared pulling very hard on that KoKen 17 mm. but "discretion being the better part of valor" I chickened out before either breaking the socket or getting the lug loose-I got out the old Bonney ! impact socket (fortunately had room) and with an obscene amount of pulling on the 24" S*K bar the lug let go with a horrible sound as if something busted but everything turned out O.K. So I don't know if the KoKen could have stood that pull or not!

Always wondered how this happens. Run into it a time or two. Where it seems that they just used a 12 foot breaker bar to tighten a lugnut. There's a lot of situations where it could happen but it doesn't seem to me like it would. I don't think that places are using an industrial impact and the full 175 psi of their air compressors. Could be wrong though. Surely even if they get a "new guy" at the tire shop, its all already set up so he can't really over tighten. Not to that degree. There's over tightening, and then there's what you're talking about. I run into it sometimes too and its cause for concern. You don't really want to snap a stud, or tear up a wheel, or get a socket stuck, etc.

 

[ezover]

About a year ago someone had a flat on a VW product and the lug BOLTS were very tight (17 mm. wrench size) and on one of them I got scared pulling very hard on that KoKen 17 mm. but "discretion being the better part of valor" I chickened out before either breaking the socket or getting the lug loose-I got out the old Bonney ! impact socket (fortunately had room) and with an obscene amount of pulling on the 24" S*K bar the lug let go with a horrible sound as if something busted but everything turned out O.K.
so I don't know if the KoKen could have stood that pull or not!

always whack lug bolts on a vw with a hammer first makes removing them much easier.

I do the same on trailer lug bolts also.

 

[superautobacs]

Something I encountered earlier in the week was similar. It was a vehicle with only 3xxx miles on it. It's never had a wheel removed (at least not in record) since it left the assembly line. 17 our of 20 wheel bolts came off as it should with the pneumatic impact. 3 wheel bolts on one corner just wouldn't budge, for some strange reason.
I had to bring the 25" long breaker and give it.

always whack lug bolts on a vw with a hammer first makes removing them much easier.

I do the same on trailer lug bolts also.

We do that occasionally on stuck tamper-proof wheel bolts, using it with a brass drift of course.