impact versus non-impact rated tools

[jd_1138]

At what torque does a tool suddenly become "impact rated"? 100 foot pounds? I had this socket adapter break on me today when removing some 100 foot pound lugs off a wheel (neighbor lady had a flat).

I am not going to return it to HF, as I should've used impact rated sockets adapters (or just a 1/2" 19mm socket and not having to use an adapter in the first place). It was at the end of my HF 25" breaker bar; I was not using any air tools or impact wrench.

I guess these regular chrome ones are for light duty stuff only. Lesson learned. I had never even used this adapter yet. It was its maiden voyage.

My little beloved Rat Terrier Chloe is in the background.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

It's not the amount of torque but the sharp impacts that cause the failure.
Hard material is brittle, impact rated tools are typically softer.

 

[Tenex]

Impact rated tools are made using different processes and are typically composed of chrome-moly. It's not dependent on torque ratings. Your problem is that you bought a **** adapter

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Might want to buy a 19MM deep well socket in 3/4" drive..

I share Your thoughts on not returning that adapter to HF.. Raise the bar a few notches and get a ProTo or SK adapter. chrome or impact..

Give the Pup an extra pat on the head for Me

 

[Ralf99]

..or as the OP said, just a 1/2" drive socket on the breaker bar. Not surprising a cheapo 1/2" to 3/8" adapter sheared. Probably not the right tool for the job to start with.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

HF tools are mostly junk, and those adapters always break.
If you dont return it, they will not raise the bar, and somone else will suffer the same problem.
If enough get returned, it will cost them money, and they will improve the tool.

At what torque does a tool suddenly become "impact rated"? 100 foot pounds? I had this socket adapter break on me today when removing some 100 foot pound lugs off a wheel (neighbor lady had a flat).


I guess these regular chrome ones are for light duty stuff only. Lesson learned. I had never even used this adapter yet. It was its maiden voyage.

Tightening torque does not ever equal required reversing breakaway torque.

I have HF crome sockets that took 10+ years of impacting, but thte first 3 sockets in their 'impact' set I got broke instantly, and I never bought another.

 

[CJM8515]

Chrome sockets are brittle, that is why you are supposed to NEVER use them with an impact gun. They tend to shatter or as in your case, snap. Impact sockets are made of softer material and arent prone to breaking like this.

 

[jd_1138]

are you sure it was a 100 ft-lbs? You understand that that not everyone does things by the books...* cough...cough... Jiffy Lube*. Wheel fasteners are usually hit with Impacts.

Yep they were torqued exactly to 100 ft-lbs. Last time I took a vehicle to Jiffy Lube was 1997. It was a '94 Toyota truck with 35k miles, 22R, never a lick of trouble with it. And the Jiffy Lube monkey snapped the 12V line to the starter.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

are you sure it was a 100 ft-lbs? You understand that that not everyone does things by the books...* cough...cough... Jiffy Lube*. Wheel fasteners are usually hit with Impacts.

naa,,would they ready do dat


Reminds Me of a Friend's Toyota that the tires were rotated on by Her local big name tire shop... When She picked it up, They mentioned that it would soon be due for front brake pads... I said She was welcome to bring it out for a brake job.. She brought rotors and pads with when She came out.. I mentioned that if it needed anything else, We will run for the parts. After dinner, We went out to do the brake job.. The torque spec for the four little lugs on that car wheel was 70 ft.lbs.. Should be no problem to snap them loose with a 15" breaker bar.. no go.. So, I put an old style Duro open beam torque wrench on that socket to see what it would take to loosen that lug.. I buried that 1/2" drive torque wrench at it's 150 ft.lb limit. I grabbed My 3/4" drive Duro open beam torque wrench that goes up to 300 ft.lbs and a 3/4" to 1/2" drive adapter....With a steady, even pull, that lug needed 287 ft.lb to start it turning...

The lugs on all four wheels required close to that amount of torque to loosen.

She was glad that She didn't have to change a flat out on the road..
She told Her favorite tire shop about the episode;;; but they couldn't understand how ThaT could possibly happen

 

[BDT/NWMN]

JD 1138.... That broken HF adapter , like Ral 99 stated;; wasn't the choice tool for the job to start with.. I agree with Ole Slewfoot about the "questionable quality" of that adapter to start with.. That adapter reminds Me of My first 24" Hf 1/2" drive bargain breaker bar... End broke off on a mild pull.. But now; You get to make Your own conclusion as to whether breaking that adapter first saved Your 24"Hf breaker bar from breaking

 

[jd_1138]

Yeah it's a **** tool. It should've survived a mild tug on a 100 ft-lb lug nut. It's ***** matter. I never had a HF tool break on me before, because 99.99% of the time I use SK, Snap-On, GearWrench, etc. branded tools.

 

[Wakefield]

How about the Sunex impact adapter 3/4" drive to 1/2" male?

 

[JettaGetUpandGo]

I had a Craftsman adapter break when used in the same manner. It was US made, not China. It had been used for 10+ years for removing lug bolts on 4-5 cars each spring and fall. Sears replaced it with a China made one and I finally bought the 1/2" drive 6-point deep sockets that I should have bought in the first place (they only stocked the 12 point sockets in 1/2" drive in the store).

The point of this post is to say even decent tools break when used beyond what they were intended for (granted there is much better stuff out there than US made Craftsman, but it still lasted 10 years).

 

[md21722]

As others have said not the right too for the job & loosening torque is not the same as tightening torque. While this may have been defective, or a higher quality adapter may not have broken, this was a job for a 1/2" drive socket chrome or impact socket take your pick. If I need a handle more than about 14" I reach for 1/2" drive. It can be easier to break bolts and nuts with long breaker bars too.

 

[jt777]

I try to never use adapters. Gives me a excuse to collect more sockets and you get more clearance. I know it doesn't matter on lugs. But the suspension and motor work the inch and half extra makes a big difference

 

[General Geoff]

Don't use a 3/8" drive tool to remove lug nuts. If you're using a reducer like that, the smaller square drive part will always be the weakest link.

Even if it was properly torqued to 100 ft lbs, it can require significantly more than that to break them loose after a while.

 

[pauls_workshop]

At what torque does a tool suddenly become "impact rated"? 100 foot pounds? I had this socket adapter break on me today when removing some 100 foot pound lugs off a wheel (neighbor lady had a flat).

I am not going to return it to HF, as I should've used impact rated sockets adapters (or just a 1/2" 19mm socket and not having to use an adapter in the first place). It was at the end of my HF 25" breaker bar; I was not using any air tools or impact wrench.

I guess these regular chrome ones are for light duty stuff only. Lesson learned. I had never even used this adapter yet. It was its maiden voyage.

My little beloved Rat Terrier Chloe is in the background.

Hi JD, even if set at the same "torque", impacts have much more energy present for each hit than a conventional wrench at the same "torque". The reason is best explained in this analogy:

If you use a hammer to drive a nail, you hit the nail with an impact force. The energy present is much greater than applying the same constant force to the nail. For instance, if you put 10 pounds of force on a nail head just pushing down with your hand on it, it won't puncture the wood (maybe slightly if soft wood). But the same hammer hit with the same 10 pounds of force with the same hand will start to drive the nail into the wood.

Back in engineering school, I would calculate the impact energy with equations for various scenarios. Still could do that if I tried a bit now! (25 years out). Impact is just a great way to get work done, so long as the tools can handle those higher stresses without cracking/failing. Impact rated sockets/extensions aren't really any stronger than chrome plated, but they aren't hardened the same so much less brittle. They will deform slightly in use but they won't easily crack under the impacts. So recommended, even though that means another whole set of tools. OR, one could start with the impact sockets and also use them for normal turning. A bit larger size, but they would also work. - Paul, ME on the side

 

[wvrailroader]

I know all the Proto adapters I have all say they are not guaranteed right on the tool. I am not sure about other brands.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

I know all the Proto adapters I have all say they are not guaranteed right on the tool. I am not sure about other brands.

My Proto G7656 1" to 3/4" impact adapter states: not guaranteed.
Walden 5105 chrome 1" to 3/4" adapter says nothing

Duro Chrome #493 chrome 3/4" to 1/2" adapter says nothing

SnapOn GAX1 1/2" to 3/8" adapter looks like an impact adapter; but states:warning nonimpact Max torque 2000 Lb in.

SK 3/8" to 1/4" #384 chrome adapter has no warnings or notes;
Sk 3/8" to 1/4" chrome adapter that lacks any number says: not guaranteed

A few "variants" to toss into the mix

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

Impact rated had nothing to do with applicable torque, instead the manner in which its used.... i.e., with an impact (percussive force).

A 3/8" drive should be able to handle <200 ft-lbs, not ideal due to flexure at higher torque. So the problem is either the tool had a flaw or is flawed (design/material/manufacture).

 

[jumbojak]

I don't have much to add as just about everyone who has posted covered the difference very well. I will point out the reasoning behind a difference that was touched on; the use of a chrome molybdenum alloy in place of chrome vanadium commonly found in hand tools. The addition of molybdenum allows for a higher level of hardness without sacrificing the toughness needed to withstand impact use. In other words, all other things being equal, a chrome molybdenum impact socket would be less prone to deformation than a chrome vanadium impact socket and not crack.

Now for the big question... why does it seem like the "impact rated" bits for driving screws made by big names don't hold up as well as the cheap ones? Makes no sense to me.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

^ dunno

Milwaukee shockwave #2 sucked... but Makita gold #2 are the ****!

 

[pauls_workshop]

I don't have much to add as just about everyone who has posted covered the difference very well. I will point out the reasoning behind a difference that was touched on; the use of a chrome molybdenum alloy in place of chrome vanadium commonly found in hand tools. The addition of molybdenum allows for a higher level of hardness without sacrificing the toughness needed to withstand impact use. In other words, all other things being equal, a chrome molybdenum impact socket would be less prone to deformation than a chrome vanadium impact socket and not crack.

Now for the big question... why does it seem like the "impact rated" bits for driving screws made by big names don't hold up as well as the cheap ones? Makes no sense to me.

For your big question at the bottom, the impact rated bits are made to not *break*. So they don't while impacting. The other normal bits are not made *necessarily* to handle the impacting to avoid breaking, BUT are typically hardened much higher, which gives wear resistance as well as strength. So if they don't actually break while impacting (which really probably won't happen with a 1/4" drive cordless impact say), then they would tend to wear much better for the tips. We should do a scientific study of all the bit options out there to find the true winners when impacting, regardless of impact rating or not. - Paul

 

[jumbojak]

Someone, might have been Popular Mechanics, tested a bunch of #2 Phillips bits and determined that Lowe's Kobalt non-impact rated bits were the most cost effective option. That could change from season to season though if the alloy composition is altered at all for new production.