Impact vs screwdriver and bits/holders

[BeachBoy]

I have searched and read quite a lot. I found the best impact bit, the best this or that... That's fine when you're set in what you want. But I couldn't find basic info on what to get.

With everyone complaining about bits that break in their impacts (looking at M12 fuel impact driver), I was wondering what I should get.

Seems the impact is for though jobs like lag bolts, but for regular screwing (no pun intended)? Installing Sheetrock, household jobs like shelving, etc.

For example the wiha impact bits are not to be used on the Wiha quick change bit holders (see this page, all of them are not for impact drivers http://www.wihatools.com/700seri/700_BitHolders.htm), but around the house I guess a quick change bit set would be nice.

So should I get only a M12 screwdriver (2402-20)? Or a drill/hammer (if you can put hammer off) 2408-20?

When is impact recommended, or not?

 

[Miller6386]

I've used impacts for a few years now for everything from decks to shelves to nuts and bolts and have never had an issue with just regular old quick change bits. Never broke one. I have wore out a few Philips heads after a big project but never had one actually break

Mobile

 

[dutchgray]

I have had plenty of cheap 1" bits break in the impact driver, they do last a while though, the expensive good bits tend to last longer and don't break but they do wear out and start chewing screw heads. Just buy a bulk pack of common sizes of cheap bits and use them, they are a consumable item.

 

[BeachBoy]

But you can't use quick change holder, right?

Or basically you can if you don't do heavy work?

 

[dutchgray]

But you can't use quick change holder, right?

Or basically you can if you don't do heavy work?

I use a standard bit holder and leave the bits in them, just swap out the holders when changing size/ type, I have a couple spare holders for the little used bits.
You could use a quick change holder in the impact it just might not last a long time, but as impact drivers are quick change anyway there is no point in using them.

 

[dirtydogintex]

But you can't use quick change holder, right?

Or basically you can if you don't do heavy work?

haven't found a big box sourced quick change bit holder that'll withstand drill service much less impact.

Suppose the next step is to bite the bullet and try Snap-on/Bluepoint, Wiha, Apex or similar....

 

[bcradio]

I have a DeWalt impact rated 'quick change' bit holder that has been going strong for years. Problem is it's not really quick change since I need pliers to pull out the bit it's in there so tight.

 

[BeachBoy]

haven't found a big box sourced quick change bit holder that'll withstand drill service much less impact.

Suppose the next step is to bite the bullet and try Snap-on/Bluepoint, Wiha, Apex or similar....

Wiha seems to not have any quick change for impact.

The question is if for light work using a quick change would last on the impact driver?

 

[fivespdcat]

A hammer drill and impact driver are two different things. An impact works really well for driving lags and long screws, but I don't find them particularly great for drywall since you need to have a good touch to not drive the screws too far. All three (drill, hammer drill and impact) are useful at different times. If I could do it over again, I would go with a hammer drill/driver and an impact.

On to the bits, I've found the cheap ones to be really bad. My Kobalt branded ones are terrible, admittedly others have had great luck with the impact bits. I am really liking the the Qualtool Qryptonites, but I also wondered about using non "impact rated" bits in impact tools. The result was pretty uneventful, they lasted a good bit of time and just wore out. I thought they might shatter, but nothing happened, while the Kobalt impact bits shattered to pieces.

Finally there are impact rated bit holders and they come with just about any set you buy. The Kobalt one *****, the Dewalt one is good so far and the rest (Qualtool, milwaukee) have also worked well.

 

[Fugio]

My impact cracked several bit holders until I got the Milwaukee one made for impacts. It's been fine for at least 6 months.

Inpact bits last longer, but not forever. I absolutely SHATTERED a Makita impact phillips bit yesterday while driving a 3" drywall screw into a soft pine stud.

 

[BeachBoy]

Thanks for all the useful info.

And Milwaukee sells both a M12 drill (hammer or not) and screwdriver. I would guess you can use the drill for screws but not the screwdriver for drilling holes.?

 

[Farmall450]

Wiha seems to not have any quick change for impact.

The question is if for light work using a quick change would last on the impact driver?

Probably, I use regular dewalt and milwaukee ones with no problem, they're some china trash that goes on sale, like other have said bit will wear out but they're expendable.

 

[T45]

Impact bits tend to have special alloy and a cut-away in the shank. Hand driver bits tend to have diiferent makeup on both counts. Just like chrom vs impacts sockets...not sure if there is more to it or not? The QR mechanism is found on impact drivers and on many impact bit holders as well...so I don't believe that is a key part of the issue either way. QR holders simply come in variants like the bits so you need to order or track down the right ones.

 

[TomB19]

haven't found a big box sourced quick change bit holder that'll withstand drill service much less impact.

Ditto. I've just started using a Wera Rapidaptor and so far, so good. I hope it lasts because it's the nicest bit holder I've ever used.

The last one to break was a DeWalt. It had a nice one handed operation and seemed like it was good quality. Perhaps I just got a bad one but it broke on the second day of service in my M12 non-FUEL impact so I took it back.

I've had good luck with magnetic holders from both Milwaukee and DeWalt. I have some from each company that are 6 months old and still operating fine. The Milwaukee has a stronger magnet so it's better but even the Milwaukee will leave the bit in the fastener from time to time.

The cheaper bit holders from KMS and Princess Auto have been dismal for my use.

This Wera will be ideal, if it holds up.

 

[TomB19]

Inpact bits last longer, but not forever. I absolutely SHATTERED a Makita impact phillips bit yesterday while driving a 3" drywall screw into a soft pine stud.

Strange. I've had really good luck with Makita, DeWalt, Milwaukee, and Bosch bits. I make sure to get the impact rated ones.

 

[dnschmidt]

I'm not so sure impact rated bits are anything more than a marketing gimmick to relieve you of more cash. Say you're a marketing manager at Milwaukee, Makita or anywhere else in ToolWorld. You're selling a lot of these impact drivers and you say to yourself hey maybe these fools would pay more for the same **** if we called it "Impact Ready." and thus is born a great idea.

A good screwdriver bit is a fairly impressive piece of metallurgy to start with. It has to be tough and ductile to begin with. What exactly are they suppose to be doing to these impact ready bits to make them better than their normal bits. Has Wiha ever said that they do a different heat treatment on their impact bits, we use a different steel alloy on our impact bits. We actually do something other than change the name and label on our impact bits. I think it's BS. A good bit should be able to be used with anything impact or otherwise.

 

[dutchgray]

I think the impact bits are softer as they do seem to wear, the standard ones shatter after a while at which point I replace with a new one, I prefer this as they are cheap and I'm not driving screws with a worn bit trying to get my monies worth out of it before I bin it. I mostly use cheap Dewalt or Irwin branded ones, at least for the pozi 2 & 3 and Phillips no2 which I use all the time.

 

[TomB19]

I've found Bosch bits to be among the best. They have ribs that bite the screw and seem to work pretty well and last a long time.

Nothing wrong with DeWalt, though.

 

[Fender1325]

Ive never broke a bit with impact drivers going into pine or drywall. Usually the box of screws comes with a little hex or star bit if you buy the good stuff. I have had more trouble with cheap screws than bits.

 

[RedRabbit]

Buy the black Dewalt set. I bought one and only use it. Never broke one.

 

[Palmer812]

I use my Dewlat 12v max impact for almost everything. Driving screws into drywall and wood. Taking door panels and dash pieces out of cars etc. It doesn't take long to get the hang of controlling it. I can run a screw in and let off before it impacts if I want. For bit holder I use Dewalt and have never broken one. I use Mac bits. I don't know who makes them but I have about a 100 piece set and when I loose one my Mac guy has replacements on his truck. They are about $2 each but they last several years if you don't loose them.

 

[rick carpenter]

I've had a corded B&D drill and a Bosch 18v cordless impact driver for several years. I have used the Bosch for driving lags and for hanging sheetrock. Just gotta have the right touch. I've used others' cordless drills to drive screws but didn't like that. I have a Senco corded autofeed drywall gun and you REALLY have to have the right touch for it. I have a feeling I'd also like the dedicated drywall screwdrivers but I haven't played with any (yet). I just got a Ho-Ho-Ho Milwaukee 12v impact driver & drill/driver combo, and expect to use them a lot. Will hafta see how I like the driver function of the d/d, will use the snot out of the i/d.

As far as i/d or screwdriver bits go, remember they're ALL wear items. The original phillips hand screwdrivers were designed to cam out of the screws before you damaged the screw. Fast forward to today where screws are made nearly of potmetal and you've got amps galore in your hand just begging to strip screws. You gotta have the right touch and if you do the brand and engineering/salesmanship behind them won't matter. Though I've bought many different kinds, these days I use Ace Hdwr bits and buy enough to account for wearing them out. About $1.50-1.75 on average.

 

[slyonedoofy]

I have a DeWalt impact rated 'quick change' bit holder that has been going strong for years. Problem is it's not really quick change since I need pliers to pull out the bit it's in there so tight.

I have the same "quick change" and I hate it. Damn bits will not come out.

 

[rick carpenter]

I have the same "quick change" and I hate it. Damn bits will not come out.

There have been several posts about quick change adapters. If y'all're talking about the older spring clip retention adapters then those are the ones I dislike the least. I trust a bit to stay in a little more if you have to get a pair of pliers to get it out. About the only time I reach for one of these bit adapters on purpose is if I'm putting in deck screws and you need their special blue-green bit. I've not had any problems with these in an impact driver but I don't use them often.

Bottom line is I'd rather pop for 2"/4"/6" single bits for an impact driver, drill/driver, or screwdriver than use mag or spring clip bit adapters.

 

[slip knot]

I've had problems with the bit holders too. I think they are too soft for impact duty. As far as bits I've been using the Bosch gold bits and haven't had any issues with them.

 

[FMC1959]

I was a big fan of magnetic bit holder & bits, then got into the habit of using
2" bits chucked into my impact. Most of these are not magnetic, so I lost this benefit, but I prefer the "feel" of these bits and never have the small bits come off stuck in the screw head.

A few years ago I found some Bosch made in the USA bits, 25 for $10; got 2 packs. They have been great, but being a tool junkie, keep trying many other. Used Milwaukee Shockwave, these are also pretty good. Lately been using some Wera Impaktors and Wiha Terminators, also very good.

All of these mentioned have performed very well and I am sure if I get Dewalts, Makitas or other top quality bits, they should be good, but they will all wear out, nature of the beast

The most important thing I find to making them last is the operator.

The odd time a buddy is helping me on something or my GF grabs my impact, I cringe. People that do not keep the driver lined up properly with the screw and then ask why it cams out on them....they can go through a dozen bits in an afternoon. (I always keep a bag of made in China specials for these occasions )