Impact Wrench question

[Daylate$short]

First off, I will say I am not a mechanic or auto tech. My son wanted to change the front struts on his 93 Pont Bonneville. I agreed to help him. We got the front drivers side done with no problems. On the passenger side, we got the 24mm nuts off the two lower bolts, but the bolts will not budge. Their head size is 21mm. The first attempt broke a 18" Snapon breaker bar. The second time with different bar, the 1/2" drive socket broke. The third time we used a box end wrench and cheeter bar. The wrench bent. I went to Sears and bought a 1/2" drive 21mm impact socket. I then went to the tool rental shop. All they had was a 1/2" Cambell H. impact wrench. It did not budge either bolt.

My question is, would 1/2" Aircat1000 or an IR2135 be that much better then the CH? I can not find either to rent and I would have to buy one. I hate to spend the money on something that is not likely to work, but this has become "personal" I would welcome any comments from anyone who has used these tools or can suggest a way too break the bolts loose. Thanks!

 

[kartracer55]

Where do you have the jackstands placed?

You may need a smoke wrench....

Yes, the guns will probably remove it IF you have enough air behind them. That CH gun probably doesnt have too much torque. If your compressor does not flow enough CFM @ 90 the best gun in the world just wont have the balls to turn it either. What type/size compressor are you using?

Jim

 

[strizzy]

Doubt this will help at all, but when I changed my coil springs on my Malibu, to get the struts out I had to spin the nuts off of two bolts on the strut. The bolts had to be pound out the bolts with a dead blow hammer because the bolts had splines (much like lug nut studs).

Here is a picture of the bolts I am talking about (just happened to have it...).

 

[Junkman]

Based on the tools that you have already broken, I would say that you are going to have to resort to some other methods. I would start with the oxy/acetylene torch and heat the bolts, and then let them cool naturally. Then it is back to your manual tools to see if it budges. If it doesn't, then I think that you might be better off seeking professional help from someone that knows what is going on. It might just be that they were installed at the factory with a 3/4" air gun, and overtightened. It is also possible that someone used Loctite on them at one time in there life, and that stuff just doesn't give up, unless you put heat to it. Too many variables to guess exactly which one it is going to be. Don't force it...... get a bigger hammer.

 

[ericthewrench]

Try heating it up as mentioned above then try the breaker bar with the impact socket and if that will not get it put a piece of pipe over the breaker bar to give you more length. If you still cant get it then you could try an impact gun, you'll need one with alot of torque, I'd say at least 650 ft. lbs. preferably more.

 

[Daylate$short]

First off, thanks for the responses to to my situation. Some additional info:
-The jack stands are positioned behind the front wheel wells on the frame/unibody
-My compressor is an old two stage, one horse, 20 gallon tank, 50' of 3/8 hose and 3/8" coupler. 5.4 SCFM at 90psi
- I did try a dead blow hammer and they didn't budge. I moved up to a five lb and had the same results.(new bolts have been ordered from the dealership and are in)
-The driver side bolts did not have splines, and the struts look the same so I hope the bolts We are working on are smooth.

NAPA can get a 21mm impact socket in a 3/4" drive. Special order. I may go that route and try with a breaker bar.

The neighbor has a oxy/ac torch, but is out of town until next week.

Thanks again for the suggestions

 

[Deafautotech]

It happened to me before with Honda's front half shaft's nut on hub bearing that won't come off with 1/2dr breaker bar with four feet cheater bar. it keep break the breaker bar. so i did bought the 3/4 slide bar at sears and S-K 36mm 3/4dr at wholesale tools store. i bent the slide bar. so i took the steering knuckle with cv-joint to my work where i had IR 2135ti with very powerful air compressor in my dealership (chrysler). then i just use 2135ti and 36mm deep from mac tool and trigger it then it come off really easy. it make me pissed off when i tried to break loose at home but at my work as it come loose really easy..... but that why i am automotive technician and always have all tools what i am use everyday at my work but it is **** at home where i dont bring my "special" tools from my work.....

 

[ericthewrench]

For a torch you can use a cannister of MAPP Gas with a screw on torch tip. You can get them at just about any auto parts store, hardware store, Home Depot, Lowes etc... It should cost you under $20. This is what I ususally use at my shop.

 

[Deafautotech]

i use torch to heat the exhaust pipe to be expand so i can hit the Catalyic convertor off from Muffler on Jeep which it is Recall of Emission that cause it to be rattle and PCM make different program on emission. so i had flashes on PCM and replacement the Cat Convertor because it is under of 100,000 miles which it is under of Federal Emission Warranty. i follow what DaimlerChrysler Corp said on Recall list to do it...

 

[wilbilt]

An air hammer might rattle them out. Wear ear protection.

 

[Deafautotech]

An air hammer might rattle them out. Wear ear protection.

which it is second choice for me but i dont need ear protection. most of time when i work in my work and my tech friend had me to do air hammer for him because he was use ear protection but had headache. so i had help him to do air hammer. they said i am luck to dont heard the noise from air hammer but it is diffcult for me to do automotive problem where it make noise which i had to feel by my hand like engine make tapping noise so i feel it like tapping in engine where pushrod make noise.

 

[eschoendorff]

For a torch you can use a cannister of MAPP Gas with a screw on torch tip. You can get them at just about any auto parts store, hardware store, Home Depot, Lowes etc... It should cost you under $20. This is what I ususally use at my shop.

This is what I have and use. But it is not as hot as O/A.

 

[kartracer55]

which it is second choice for me but i dont need ear protection.

lol. I still find it amazing how you can rely on feel to pick up on things!

The compressor wont have the balls to power a high end impact. Breaker bar and a pipe are probably a better bet. You may try this...

Get an impact socket that BARELY fits on... something thats tight enough where you might have to tap it on. Take it off, and heat up the area around the bolt. Hammer the socket on, and stick the breaker bar in. If you can rent/borrow an air hammer and a flat anvil for it your in luck. One of you should get on the breaker bar and the other should hit the strut in the area around the bolt with the air hammer. Hopefully the combination of heat and vibration should loosen it up. Ive had some tough ones, but never one like that! Your positive it isnt splined?

Jim

 

[Deafautotech]

lol. I still find it amazing how you can rely on feel to pick up on things!
Jim

that why i have my good friend who was in high school automotive mech teacher and he had all ASE certified that all what ASE offer to everyone. he was named by World Professional Automotive Technician and his name on list at Dertoit, Michgan. Now he work at College as Chairman of Automotive and Diesel Technology Program in Texas. as Texas Tech. he show me how i can feel the problems and explain me in different ways which i am learn a lot from him. then i work in independent shop in four years ago, they taught me a lot of ways to do disagonis and inspection. i have many good tech friends who had ASE and known of their name in Automotive Industry. even my friend who was Service Manager for Chrysler and Jeep dealership and hired me after i applied it while i just stop by to see him.

i have almost 5 years under my belt include pull about 18 engines and pull 20 or more transmissions since i work in automotive industry.

 

[Jeeper]

have you tired asking at http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/


They have a bonny forum for you generation. Might be worth a try to ask them. I know in the jeep and grand prix world there is a fix for everything.

 

[Jeeper]

Regarding the bottom bolts.... "remember, don't try to twist them out. they are splined by the head of the bolt. They have to be driven out. If they absolutly won't budge you can try twisting the bolt both directions to loosen it."

"I'll add:
The biggest problem I had was removing the strut-to-knuckle bolts... not the nuts. The first time I had to screw with the struts I used brute force. I broke two sockets and nearly my **** in the process. The second time was at Boosty's house and with the aid of his air hammer and a blunt chisel attachment, the bolts came right out. a one beer job.

The moral of the story is that air tools are not absolutely necessary but they do make things much easier"

http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=56845&highlight=A



I love forums....

 

[Daylate$short]

Thanks again for everyone's imput. I ordered a 21mm 3/4" drive impact socket from Napa this morning. I could not find one in stock locally. It should be in before the weekend. I have a MAP torch and will get an air hammer.
The two bolts on the driver's side were not splined. I have not picked up the replacement bolts from the Pontiac garage yet. On their computer schematic of the assembly, it looked like a smooth bolt and was listed as "Bolt, frt susp strut(M16X2X75)" I'm not very familiar with metric bolt sizes, but at $9.73 a pop, I hope they are really good! I will report back when I have an update.

 

[Daylate$short]

Jeeper,
Thanks for the link to the Bonneville Forum. It is exactly what we are dealing with. I' glad my 63' and 76' Jeeps don't have struts!

 

[Junkman]

It is possible that the originals from the factory were replaced on one side and not the other. That might explain why you are having problems with only one side. If the originals were splined and never replaced, they won't turn. If you have the nuts off, then see if you can drive them out from the bottom. As I said before, don't force it...... get a bigger hammer..

 

[strizzy]

Does this mean I win?!

 

[kartracer55]

Wait, didnt he say the other side wasnt splined?

 

[strizzy]

It is possible that the originals from the factory were replaced on one side and not the other. That might explain why you are having problems with only one side. If the originals were splined and never replaced, they won't turn. If you have the nuts off, then see if you can drive them out from the bottom. As I said before, don't force it...... get a bigger hammer..

In that case, no.

 

[wilbilt]

'93 Bonneville bolts should not be splined. As I recall, the splined bolts were in the smaller Cavalier-size cars.
Of course, I am now old and feeble.

 

[strizzy]

Yeah I looked (really bored), doesn't seem like they have splined bolts from what I could find. Found this thread and thought it might be helpful...

http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25997&highlight=front+strut

 

[Daylate$short]

I have an update for those of you keeping score. The 21mm 3/4" drive impact socket arrived at NAPA yesterday afternoon. It was marked NAPA USA SKC and cost $24.34(it was worth every penny) The day before we had used a MAPP tourch and heated up the bolts as was mentioned in earlier posts. It was hot enough to turn the threaded end of the bolts pale red. Once we had the new socket, one of us got on the end of the breaker bar with a pipe, while the other ran the air hammer on the strut. We started on the bottom bolt and rocked back and forth. After a few times, it popped! We shot more PB Blaster on it and continued to turn the bolt. It worked loose enough to switch to a 1/2" drive socket and ratchet. After turning a while longer, we hit it with a 5 pound hammer and she popped out!

On to the top bolt. We repeated the same procedure. Things looked like they were going great. As we worked, there was a SNAP, and before I knew it, I was on my a$$. The bolt head broke off. It was late and we were in a foul mood, so we stopped.

At this point I think we will attempt to drill out the bolt. I hope that by previously heating the bolt it may have taken some of the hardness out. I will keep you posted.

Thanks again for all the suggestions everyone gave. The references to the Bonneville Forum were great. It showed exactly what we were up against.

 

[ImportTuner]

I have an update for those of you keeping score. The 21mm 3/4" drive impact socket arrived at NAPA yesterday afternoon. It was marked NAPA USA SKC and cost $24.34(it was worth every penny) The day before we had used a MAPP tourch and heated up the bolts as was mentioned in earlier posts. It was hot enough to turn the threaded end of the bolts pale red. Once we had the new socket, one of us got on the end of the breaker bar with a pipe, while the other ran the air hammer on the strut. We started on the bottom bolt and rocked back and forth. After a few times, it popped! We shot more PB Blaster on it and continued to turn the bolt. It worked loose enough to switch to a 1/2" drive socket and ratchet. After turning a while longer, we hit it with a 5 pound hammer and she popped out!

On to the top bolt. We repeated the same procedure. Things looked like they were going great. As we worked, there was a SNAP, and before I knew it, I was on my a$$. The bolt head broke off. It was late and we were in a foul mood, so we stopped.

At this point I think we will attempt to drill out the bolt. I hope that by previously heating the bolt it may have taken some of the hardness out. I will keep you posted.

Thanks again for all the suggestions everyone gave. The references to the Bonneville Forum were great. It showed exactly what we were up against.

So, the bottom line, was it splined?

 

[Daylate$short]

The bolts were NOT splined. However, they were rusted tighter than a
gnat's a$$ over a rain barrel!

My son thought we had so much fun doing the front, that now he wants to do the back struts as well. Our story may not be over....

Thanks again for everyone's help.

 

[kartracer55]

It was hot enough to turn the threaded end of the bolts pale red. Once we had the new socket, one of us got on the end of the breaker bar with a pipe, while the other ran the air hammer on the strut. We started on the bottom bolt and rocked back and forth. After a few times, it popped! We shot more PB Blaster on it and continued to turn the bolt. It worked loose enough to switch to a 1/2" drive socket and ratchet. After turning a while longer, we hit it with a 5 pound hammer and she popped out!

.

Cmon, Whatd we tell ya!

Dont drill them out, thats a last resort. Get a punch and use that to drive them out. If youd like, you can drill a SLIGHT hole in the bolt (enough to make a decent depression) and use a pointed tip on the air hammer to drive it out as well. Drilling through it WILL take forever.

Jim

 

[Daylate$short]

At Last!
We heated up what was left of the broken bolt. After it cooled we hit it with the air hammer. It didn't budge. We used an angle grinder with a metal cut-off wheel and cut the strut bracket away from the steering knuckle. With the bracket removed, there was about an inch of the threaded end of the bolt exposed. We were able get a 24" pipe wrench to bite on the end of the bolt. Unfortunately it stapped off. We ended up drilling the bolt. We hit what was left with the air hammer and it was still fused together. The hole we drilled was large enough to get a small metal cutting SAWZALL blade in. After two cuts, we used a small chisel to peal back what was left of the bolt. It then popped out.

If there was a harder way to do this job, we sure could not think of it.
I hope the back stuts are not as much fun as the front.

Thanks again for everyone's suggestions and comments!