From responses on the Paid off toolbox thread about drug/alcohol use amongst mechanics has me curious for the professional mechanics opinion on how widespread drug and/or alcohol use and abuse is for mechanics. Do they really come to work and wrench on customer vehicles while impaired?
Impaired mechanics?
- Thread starter CoThG
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dnschmidt
Well-known member
Drug and alcohol abuse occurs in all professions. Doctors, Lawyers, Mechanics, School Teachers and everything else for that matter. The real question is what's the percentage of abusers in auto repair vs other professions. My guess is somewhat higher than average due to the nature of the job. I don't drink and never have in my life as I just never found any reason to drink alcohol or take drugs but while working on my best friends Powerstroke 6.0 diesel I considered beginning to do both.
LOL... A 6.0 PSD can lead people to drink heavily.
Most mechanics I've seen look like the types that drink and/or use drugs regularly.
MattGarage
Well-known member
My gardener frequently shows w a tall can of bud. It’s not his first of the day. When I worked in entry level roles baking before work was a way many coped. Now it’s expensive scotch. I’m blessed to not have that vice
Better than Bud Light...
vavet
Well-known member
Wrenched for a few years in a high line Euro dealer. I never knew anyone to show up or become impaired while on the job. Maybe I wouldn't have picked up on it if they were. There were more smokers than in the average population though,
I know several people tended to congregate at the bar at Applebees down the street and probably indulged more than they should.
Not aware of anyone using any substances other than alcohol, but I wasn't really plugged in.
I understand restaurant industry employees tend to have higher than typical substance abuse. There's something about the typical late hours for closing a restaurant. Not sure if that atmosphere attracts the people with those tendencies or if it creates those tendencies in people.
I know several people tended to congregate at the bar at Applebees down the street and probably indulged more than they should.
Not aware of anyone using any substances other than alcohol, but I wasn't really plugged in.
I understand restaurant industry employees tend to have higher than typical substance abuse. There's something about the typical late hours for closing a restaurant. Not sure if that atmosphere attracts the people with those tendencies or if it creates those tendencies in people.
I think the most important question when it comes to impairment on the job is...what is the risk that the substance use causes harm to someone?
That's a combination of:
1. How often does an employee (a mechanic in this case) come to work under the influence and how impaired are they?
2. How likely is it that the impairment leads to harm?
3. How severe is the harm if it were to occur?
4. How likely is it that the impairment is caught before harm occurs? (e.g. a foreman who says, "No, you're not operating machinery or working on customer cars in this condition")
Real complicated situation when you start trying to analyze the risk. It's an interesting question to think about, but this is (at least part of) the reason most places won't tolerate any substance use on the job.
That's a combination of:
1. How often does an employee (a mechanic in this case) come to work under the influence and how impaired are they?
2. How likely is it that the impairment leads to harm?
3. How severe is the harm if it were to occur?
4. How likely is it that the impairment is caught before harm occurs? (e.g. a foreman who says, "No, you're not operating machinery or working on customer cars in this condition")
Real complicated situation when you start trying to analyze the risk. It's an interesting question to think about, but this is (at least part of) the reason most places won't tolerate any substance use on the job.
We used to have a full time diesel mechanic on the payroll to service our many cranes and semi-tractors. Guy had ASE badges that went from shoulder to elbow on his work shirts. He was absolutely the best mechanic I have ever known, and I've known a lot. But he had a drinking problem and would show up still showing the effects of nonstop drinking from 5 to 12 PM. He could still out-diagnose and repair stuff that the other sober mechanics had given up on. The company HAD to let him go because they were worried about their liability if something went haywire. Our equipment has suffered ever since. I miss Mike fixing my stuff.
Me and most of the mechanics I know like to drink but we aren't doing it while we are wrenching on a customers vehicle. I've sent hired guys home before because it was apparent they were hung over when they showed up for work. Sorry bud, I'm not letting you work on a damn thing while your dragging *** and only half way coherent. Clean the shop or go home, I don't need a screw up because you forgot to tighten a tie rod nut, missed torquing a few head bolt,s etc.
Having said that, there have been plenty of times where I have shown up at the last service call of the day and the customer has offered me a beer. If its a pud job (changing a battery, charging your a/c, changing a headlight, etc) I don't have a problem sipping on it. Anything else waits until the work is done.
Having said that, there have been plenty of times where I have shown up at the last service call of the day and the customer has offered me a beer. If its a pud job (changing a battery, charging your a/c, changing a headlight, etc) I don't have a problem sipping on it. Anything else waits until the work is done.
Schurkey
Well-known member
Thousands of years ago, I was "in the business", and saw for myself:
1. "Mechanic" pay was so low that I did not know an overweight mechanic. Couldn't afford to over-eat. Too many of 'em tended to drive beater cars and lived on the "wrong side of the tracks". Any money they had went to cigarettes, and (maybe) pull-tabs while they were drinking at the bar.
2. Most of the after-hours training seminars put on by the local parts houses included beer but no food beyond chips or maybe cookies. Attendance was pretty consistent--I always saw the same guys at each seminar, and there were a LOT of guys.
3. The ONE after-hours training seminars that reliably had food were hosted by the local Chevy dealership (pushing GM rebuilds, GM "new" crate engines/transmissions/transfer cases, etc. out of their Parts Department) and was owned by a former drunk who got "on the wagon" and didn't tolerate other people drinking. Lots of cans of soda at his seminars.
4. I did not notice folks drunk at work. But perhaps I didn't recognize the behavior.
I'm long "out" of that business. No idea how much of this is still true, except that I see chubby "technicians" now.
1. "Mechanic" pay was so low that I did not know an overweight mechanic. Couldn't afford to over-eat. Too many of 'em tended to drive beater cars and lived on the "wrong side of the tracks". Any money they had went to cigarettes, and (maybe) pull-tabs while they were drinking at the bar.
2. Most of the after-hours training seminars put on by the local parts houses included beer but no food beyond chips or maybe cookies. Attendance was pretty consistent--I always saw the same guys at each seminar, and there were a LOT of guys.
3. The ONE after-hours training seminars that reliably had food were hosted by the local Chevy dealership (pushing GM rebuilds, GM "new" crate engines/transmissions/transfer cases, etc. out of their Parts Department) and was owned by a former drunk who got "on the wagon" and didn't tolerate other people drinking. Lots of cans of soda at his seminars.
4. I did not notice folks drunk at work. But perhaps I didn't recognize the behavior.
I'm long "out" of that business. No idea how much of this is still true, except that I see chubby "technicians" now.
is bud light no good?
mudflap
Well-known member
****** fluid...?
rockettauto
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Substance Use and Substance Use Disorder by Industry
This National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH) short report looks at trends in illicit drug use, heavy alcohol use, substance use disorder (SUD) among persons aged 18 to 64 who are employed full time. The report includes compares rates of substance use and SUD across the industry in which...
www.samhsa.gov
I would say it falls into technical services.
A lot of this is going to depend on environment.
Less at your local dealership. More at a small small shop maybe. Probably more if they also happen to be wrenching for a mining or construction outfit.
CGarage
Well-known member
Jswain
Well-known member
LOL!! /Endthread
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
I've seen a few do better work intoxicated than sober. Issue is their work quality is dogshit either way.
IMO trades get more drunks/users because there is such high demand and low supply of those willing and able to do the work. Thus there is a higher tolerance for such nonsense.
IMO trades get more drunks/users because there is such high demand and low supply of those willing and able to do the work. Thus there is a higher tolerance for such nonsense.
Meursault74
Well-known member
many years ago, someone put a dent in my car while it was parked. She actually left a note. Later on she said a friend of a friend worked at a body shop and could do the fix on the side for less. I agreed to at least meet this guy with her. Long story short I smelled liquor on his breath when we spoke at the shop. I told her I would not have him work on my car because of that, she agreed as well and noticed it too. My brother knew a guy at a body shop that would do it on the side and it came out well. If the lady hadn't left a note I would have been on me, so I tried to find a cheaper way. You know most people wouldn't have left a note.
woody 73
Well-known member
Funny but I was never crazy about airplane pilots drinking or the mechanic's that were drinking that worked on the planes, but I suppose there must be more than one person in the cockpit that can fly the plane and maybe a clean and sober supervisor that inspected all the engines before they got shipped out? (One can only hope so I guess).
vavet
Well-known member
Lots of healthcare professionals have struggles with substance abuse. I've heard of plenty of pilots too.
We had our kitchen remodeled about 15 years ago by a firefighter who had a side business doing that kind of work. He came recommended to me by a coworker. He did wonderful work. He recommended a fellow firefighter who did flooring work to install the vinyl sheet flooring. When that guy came out to talk to us he smelled of liquor and we refused to use him. We explained to the primary guy why we didn't want to use who he recommended and he was OK with it. Maybe he already knew...not sure.
My family has a strong history of alcohol abuse on both sides. I gave up alcohol completely in my early 20s until I could wrap my head around that. I have an occasional drink now, but probably average less than 1 per month.
We had our kitchen remodeled about 15 years ago by a firefighter who had a side business doing that kind of work. He came recommended to me by a coworker. He did wonderful work. He recommended a fellow firefighter who did flooring work to install the vinyl sheet flooring. When that guy came out to talk to us he smelled of liquor and we refused to use him. We explained to the primary guy why we didn't want to use who he recommended and he was OK with it. Maybe he already knew...not sure.
My family has a strong history of alcohol abuse on both sides. I gave up alcohol completely in my early 20s until I could wrap my head around that. I have an occasional drink now, but probably average less than 1 per month.
bwringer
Well-known member
I worked at a mental hospital aeons ago, and while off-hours usage of alcohol and other stuff was almost universal (I and maybe two or three others were the only ones who only drank occasionally), no one really showed up at work drunk or high. We were all quite experienced with assessing behaviors and mental state, so we all knew you really couldn't get away with this.
People who showed up hung over were given no mercy, only more terrible coffee...
People who showed up hung over were given no mercy, only more terrible coffee...
e015475
Well-known member
One summer I worked at an open-pit mine in the truck shop sweeping floors and as a mechanic's helper while I was in college.
The mine's welding shop was next to the truck shop, and part of the welding crew's duties was to lay hardfacing rod in the bed of the WABCO Haulpaks for an 8 hour shift. On grave and swing shift it wasn't unusual to get a waft of marijuana smell from the direction of the Haulpak beds sitting in the maintenance yard where the welders were working.
Rumor had it that many of the Haulpak drivers indulged too, and I was always careful in timing trips to the pit so as to avoid them (one of my jobs was checking tire pressures between shifts) There was a wrecked Haulpak in the yard that had gone off the road when a driver was trying to hit a mule deer on the haul road.
The mine's welding shop was next to the truck shop, and part of the welding crew's duties was to lay hardfacing rod in the bed of the WABCO Haulpaks for an 8 hour shift. On grave and swing shift it wasn't unusual to get a waft of marijuana smell from the direction of the Haulpak beds sitting in the maintenance yard where the welders were working.
Rumor had it that many of the Haulpak drivers indulged too, and I was always careful in timing trips to the pit so as to avoid them (one of my jobs was checking tire pressures between shifts) There was a wrecked Haulpak in the yard that had gone off the road when a driver was trying to hit a mule deer on the haul road.
Pinemarten
Well-known member
I guess it is a continuum. Never drank at work, (aerospace) but now after retirement, a top may get popped in my buddy's hot-rod shop at the end of the day. Cleaning up, sorting and sweeping still going on.
I'm pretty sure there is beer being consumed in many garages/carports among the weekend warrior DIY folks. I would think most would temper their consumption so that the work wasn't compromised.
I'm pretty sure there is beer being consumed in many garages/carports among the weekend warrior DIY folks. I would think most would temper their consumption so that the work wasn't compromised.
RPH
Well-known member
I worked in the machine tool industry. Plenty of road trips with line builders at various plants. Most days were 10 hour minimum work day. The guys would all be at the same hotel as it was a large group of people. They would hit “ice breaker” at the hotel. Free beer and snacks for a couple of hours. That was dinner for them, rest of the night was spent drinking in the bar. They might not have drunk when coming in the next morning but most shouldn’t have been working. The sleep deprived, hung over from chronic destructive behaviors made them unsafe. You don’t want to be collateral damage when it goes wrong.
I think that Canada has it right. They stop 10 hours before their shift…
They are not allowed during their shift.
Even the military in Canada is allowed… as long as they stop 10 hours before their shift.
I think airline pilots have similar rules.
They are not allowed during their shift.
Even the military in Canada is allowed… as long as they stop 10 hours before their shift.
I think airline pilots have similar rules.
engineer2
Well-known member
Alcohol at work? Plenty of stories.
Working as a welder in the factory in the 70's it was normal to take turns buying a 12 pack while out for Friday lunch and share it during the afternoon. We wrapped a shop rag around our cans and the plant manager turned a blind eye. The damn painter always bought Schlitz though.
Never drove home drunk, dad was working there in engineering and drove, but I got a few side glances.
In the corporate world when we were in our late 20's we would always pop a few beers with a vendor when he/she took us out to lunch.
Friday lunch was often at a bar with coworkers. One guy who was a really high IQ physicist would just slam beers.
The golden era of trade shows in the 90's were in a category all their own. Not a sober breath was drawn all week.
Worked with a manager who kept a bottle in his desk. I later found he was hammered most of the time at work. Essentially drank himself to death at an early age. Very sad.
Talked to a German immigrant who once worked as a farm implement dealer mechanic in Iowa. They had to tell him it was not customary in the USA to consume a 6 pack after lunch on Fridays.
Worked with one of our Australian distributors. He said they had a beer fridge in the office and start imbibing Friday afternoons. (See a pattern here?) He had to quit after his second DUI. In Australia you are compelled to blow into the tube.
Working as a welder in the factory in the 70's it was normal to take turns buying a 12 pack while out for Friday lunch and share it during the afternoon. We wrapped a shop rag around our cans and the plant manager turned a blind eye. The damn painter always bought Schlitz though.
Never drove home drunk, dad was working there in engineering and drove, but I got a few side glances.In the corporate world when we were in our late 20's we would always pop a few beers with a vendor when he/she took us out to lunch.
Friday lunch was often at a bar with coworkers. One guy who was a really high IQ physicist would just slam beers.
The golden era of trade shows in the 90's were in a category all their own. Not a sober breath was drawn all week.
Worked with a manager who kept a bottle in his desk. I later found he was hammered most of the time at work. Essentially drank himself to death at an early age. Very sad.
Talked to a German immigrant who once worked as a farm implement dealer mechanic in Iowa. They had to tell him it was not customary in the USA to consume a 6 pack after lunch on Fridays.
Worked with one of our Australian distributors. He said they had a beer fridge in the office and start imbibing Friday afternoons. (See a pattern here?) He had to quit after his second DUI. In Australia you are compelled to blow into the tube.
jonesg
Well-known member
maybe you look with wrong eyes.
Notice those without vices are just as lacking in virtues.
Hannahranga
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I've assumed it's more mechanic's dating engineer's partners.
One of the things I appreciate with my companies drug/alcohol testing is it applies to everyone not just those of us that are legally required to (railway) so in theory our engineer's should be sober. Even if occasionally you get something from them that makes you wonder how many times they got dropped on their heads as a baby.
richfinn
Well-known member
I like an occasional drink outside work, but avoid abusing the stuff, Working a ten hour shift with a hangover can't be much fun and picking up a DUI would mean termination or worse.
A Doctor once told me booze is the biggest killer/addiction of all the drugs available (including the illegal stuff) which kind of gave me a new perspective on it.
A Doctor once told me booze is the biggest killer/addiction of all the drugs available (including the illegal stuff) which kind of gave me a new perspective on it.
mslim
Well-known member
Eight hours Bottle to Throttle but 10 hours is a better idea.
Jim greengo
Well-known member
When I got out of the Army in the early 90s I worked a short time as a break man for the cnw over in the cb iowa yards.
When we weren't running trains up to Sioux city iowa we spent a lot of time in the old switch yards making up trains on differant tracks.
The old guys always talked about the good old days kicking a few cars down a track and drinking a few beers in the shack,then kicking a few more down the track and repeating the drinking/car kicking process.
After close to 9 years in the Army being Airborne Infantry/Intel I wasn't phased by many things.
But there was no way in hell I wanted to be around those damned train cars rolling around 1/2 lit up.
And I sure as hell didn't want to be around those killers in the dark while drinking anything stronger than coffee or Mt dew!
I met a lot of old guys missing fingers.
No thanks.
When we weren't running trains up to Sioux city iowa we spent a lot of time in the old switch yards making up trains on differant tracks.
The old guys always talked about the good old days kicking a few cars down a track and drinking a few beers in the shack,then kicking a few more down the track and repeating the drinking/car kicking process.
After close to 9 years in the Army being Airborne Infantry/Intel I wasn't phased by many things.
But there was no way in hell I wanted to be around those damned train cars rolling around 1/2 lit up.
And I sure as hell didn't want to be around those killers in the dark while drinking anything stronger than coffee or Mt dew!
I met a lot of old guys missing fingers.
No thanks.
nadogail
Well-known member
Fridays after Punching out, Pau Hana time starts.
Firebrick43
Well-known member
Working on CNC machines we didn't have to many issues. We had some weekend drunks but they came in sober to work on monday.
We did have one electrician that was probably the best in the shop. He would get the shakes, disappear for 15 and come back smooth. What ever he was drinking it didn't smell foul like whiskey and beer.
Anyway I guess some evenings his supervisor had set him in the office as he was a little to drunk at the start of shift??? One evening he came in and was talking to my electrician counter part as we were leaving and we both realized he was drunk. His shift cohorts realized it to and were fed up with it.
The plant had a breathalyzer. He blew a 0.3 which means he should have been passed out but he was actually still walking fine and not slurring his speach, just seemed more dazed than anything. Of course they couldn't let that go on so they fired him.
He got sober and said it was the wake up call he needed to do so.
We did have one electrician that was probably the best in the shop. He would get the shakes, disappear for 15 and come back smooth. What ever he was drinking it didn't smell foul like whiskey and beer.
Anyway I guess some evenings his supervisor had set him in the office as he was a little to drunk at the start of shift??? One evening he came in and was talking to my electrician counter part as we were leaving and we both realized he was drunk. His shift cohorts realized it to and were fed up with it.
The plant had a breathalyzer. He blew a 0.3 which means he should have been passed out but he was actually still walking fine and not slurring his speach, just seemed more dazed than anything. Of course they couldn't let that go on so they fired him.
He got sober and said it was the wake up call he needed to do so.
MBfreak
MEMBER EMERITUS
I worked in a power consulting company, most of our work was very demanding on physics and math.
We empoyed a new guy, MSc in applied physics , hi grades, very nice , most of the time.
After a while he started a downward trend and he explained he was schizophrenic, which made him crazy as a bat and dangerous to himself, but turned "normal" when on light drugs.
We said, OK, it is on you. After 15 years, when I retired, he was still performing very well.
Ola
We empoyed a new guy, MSc in applied physics , hi grades, very nice , most of the time.
After a while he started a downward trend and he explained he was schizophrenic, which made him crazy as a bat and dangerous to himself, but turned "normal" when on light drugs.
We said, OK, it is on you. After 15 years, when I retired, he was still performing very well.
Ola
txvwnut
Well-known member
Buddy of mine worked at local Chevy dealership and there was a tech there that’d get baked at lunch then sleep the afternoon away under a customers car. One day the other techs got together and tied all of his creeper wheels to the lift posts then lowered it down to about six inches above him. Started yelling fire and dusted off a C02 extinguisher under it. That poor dude came out from under that van greasy, bruised and bleeding, and never slept at work again.
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
When I worked flat rate years ago at an Oldsmobile/Isuzu dealership (I told you it was a long time ago), there were a few techs that either partied too hardy the night before, or pounded a few adult beverages during the day. One guy had a giant mug from circle K that he used as an ice chest for his airline sized bottles of vodka. He was in sad shape. I can't speak to the current Flat Rate world because, I've been away from it. In Fleet World, there are random urinalysis tests and a foreman or management that see if you're impaired. I'm curious as to what affect legal recreational marijuana use has on techs. 
Meursault74
Well-known member
Ask him. With a shop like that, he's probably around here somewhere.When I worked flat rate years ago at an Oldsmobile/Isuzu dealership (I told you it was a long time ago), there were a few techs that either partied too hardy the night before, or pounded a few adult beverages during the day. One guy had a giant mug from circle K that he used as an ice chest for his airline sized bottles of vodka. He was in sad shape. I can't speak to the current Flat Rate world because, I've been away from it. In Fleet World, there are random urinalysis tests and a foreman or management that see if you're impaired. I'm curious as to what affect legal recreational marijuana use has on techs.
On the railroad industry, the random testing doesn't trap many these days. Alcohol at least where I was working is usually not the substance that shows up on random testing, it is usually a painkiller or "recreational mary-jane" but hot is hot and out of service you go. The only mandatory testing we have is when someone gets hurts, strikes a car or pedestrian, puts an engine or car on the ground or runs thru a switch or signal.
I worked with a bunch of pre-85 guys that were about my age who had great stories from the days of 5 man train crews, including the junior guy on the job who had to get the 2 cases of beer and an 8-ball before they departed the terminal for the trip they were taking. A gentleman by the name of Ricky Gates put an end to all of that when a light engine move ran a signal and crashed into an Amtrak train.
I won't mention the cities but rumor has it that there are a few rail cars that were being kicked (a switching move that speeds things up) and went off the end of the rails into the harbors of a few cities...no computer tracking of rail cars in those days, all paper.
I worked with a bunch of pre-85 guys that were about my age who had great stories from the days of 5 man train crews, including the junior guy on the job who had to get the 2 cases of beer and an 8-ball before they departed the terminal for the trip they were taking. A gentleman by the name of Ricky Gates put an end to all of that when a light engine move ran a signal and crashed into an Amtrak train.
I won't mention the cities but rumor has it that there are a few rail cars that were being kicked (a switching move that speeds things up) and went off the end of the rails into the harbors of a few cities...no computer tracking of rail cars in those days, all paper.