Important Issue re: CFL's in the garage

[ddawg16]

I just had the inspector out to inspect my roof so I can get it covered.....

He noticed the 24 6" recessed lights I had....some already had CFL's in them....that is when I heard the "Oh Oh".....

It seems that you can't use fixtures with the edison screw in type....it has to be the pin type...as he explained, what is to stop you from swaping out the CFL's with incandescents after the inspection...

So now I need to contact Halo and see if I can get a retrofit socket for the fixtures....

Just another detail for the knowlege base.....

 

[Torque1st]

California...

 

[skeletonizer]

California...

x2

I would leave before they build a wall to keep you in.

 

[charlie_nj]

Life in the PRC, and I thought NJ was bad. They can tell you what kind of light bulbs you can use in your own house??

 

[ghlkal]

It seems that you can't use fixtures with the edison screw in type....it has to be the pin type...as he explained, what is to stop you from swaping out the CFL's with incandescents after the inspection...

Wow

I'm a California native ... but we all know this kind of stuff will be everywhere soon.

 

[ddawg16]

California...

That is the type of "Blow it out your a$$" comments that I'm talking about....

California has nothing to do with it.....

Like ghlkal said, it will be the same everywhere soon....

Lets look at it this way......

Lets say you live somewhere and you have 1000 acres of land....and through that land you have a nice river that supplies water to your livestock and fields.

Lets say that you have a neighbor upstream that decides to build a damn so he can keep most of the water for himself. What are you going to do? Nothing right....because you don't want to be like California and impose any restrictions on what someone does......right? Even though it affects you? Right?

There is only so much electricity to go around....so, if the local govt 'requires' that you use lights that use 1/5th the energy so that everyone else has enough energy to light their house and cook meals for their kids...that is wrong?

I'm not being told I can't have light in my garage....I just have to do it a certain way.....I'm ok with that...especially if it cost me less money.....

My only complaint is that HD has NOTHING 'suggesting' that one should consider using a different fixture because of the building rules. As the inspector explained....they have a ton of fixtures to get rid of....why tell people they can't use them.....otherwise, they won't sell them.

For comparison....look how cheap CRT TV's are right now.....

 

[Mellotron]

I just had the inspector out to inspect my roof so I can get it covered.....

He noticed the 24 6" recessed lights I had....some already had CFL's in them....that is when I heard the "Oh Oh".....

It seems that you can't use fixtures with the edison screw in type....it has to be the pin type...as he explained, what is to stop you from swaping out the CFL's with incandescents after the inspection...

So now I need to contact Halo and see if I can get a retrofit socket for the fixtures....

Just another detail for the knowlege base.....

So are they prohibiting Edison sockets to encourage you to not use incandescent bulbs? Or is it a safety issue? I'm a bit lost.

 

[ddawg16]

So are they prohibiting Edison sockets to encourage you to not use incandescent bulbs? Or is it a safety issue? I'm a bit lost.

Energy issue....

Personally....I like CFL's....I think I only have 2 left in the house....one in the oven and one in the fridge......for the oven....not much of an option....but as soon as I can find an LED replacement for the fridge....that incandescent is gone....

 

[Mellotron]

Energy issue....

Personally....I like CFL's....I think I only have 2 left in the house....one in the oven and one in the fridge......for the oven....not much of an option....but as soon as I can find an LED replacement for the fridge....that incandescent is gone....

Ah! I hear ya. That makes sense. I sure hope Halo has what you need.

Cheers!
Eric

 

[Terry Kennedy]

It seems that you can't use fixtures with the edison screw in type....it has to be the pin type...as he explained, what is to stop you from swaping out the CFL's with incandescents after the inspection...

I'm a little confused - why would you want to use edison base CFL's for a new installation? They're a retrofit part which are a compromise in terms of form factor and cost - they contain parts which would normally be part of the fixture so that they can be used to replace incandescent lamps.

 

[ddawg16]

Gents....I want to appologize for the following comment:

That is the type of "Blow it out your a$$" comments that I'm talking about....

California has nothing to do with it.....

There are about a dozen different ways to imply that a statement was without merit without using "Blow it out your...."....it was not intended as a personal attack on anyone.....mainly a poor choice of words on my part....though it is one of my favorit phrases......

I'm guilty of the very thing I frequently complain about....

Back to the original issue....

As Terry points out...

why would you want to use edison base CFL's for a new installation? They're a retrofit part which are a compromise in terms of form factor and cost -

The difference never ocured to me....I intended to use CFL's from the onset and with the 6" fixtures so cheap ($32 for a box of 6), seemed like a good way to go.

I have 2 13W 2pin style lights above the kitchen sink...those stay on about 8 or more hours a day....after 8 yeas I'm on the third set of bulbs.....

What I like about the CFL is that the only thing to break is in the whole bulb...if it goes...I replace the bulb....but if the ballast in the other goes....you have to rip everything apart to get at the ballast...

 

[Terry Kennedy]

What I like about the CFL is that the only thing to break is in the whole bulb...if it goes...I replace the bulb....but if the ballast in the other goes....you have to rip everything apart to get at the ballast...

True. I don't have a lot of experience (other than the CFL replacements) with the small-size fluorescent lamps. Out of a total of 46 CFL's I installed in October, 2006 (see article here), 6 have failed. The most common failure was a slow loss of brightness, though one just stopped working and one went a lovely shade of purple . These ranged from almost never being on to being lit 24 x 7, with no pattern to the ones that failed.

Over 15 years experience (from 1983-1998) at one site I managed, the failure rate of magnetic ballasts for 2-tube 40T12 fixtures was less than 4% out of a population of about 500 ballasts. [I didn't normally do ballast / lamp replacement, but this was in a large computer room that I kept the maintenance people away from.]

A lot depends on the quality (or lack thereof) in the fixtures. The stuff you find at the home centers is pretty basic - otherwise they couldn't sell a complete fixture (housing, ballast, lamps) for less than the cost of replacement lamps alone.

 

[sirswank]

California has nothing to do with it.....

california has EVERYTHING to do with it because they are the only ones requiring it. so far.

i haven't followed if you are building new or if the roof was just a fix, but what part of the inspection of a roof concerns electrical? why didn't electrical pick up on the "illegal" cans?

it's confusing not knowing or living with specifics on the other side of the country, but from what i hear and read, i hate that government keeps creeping closer and closer to "1984"

if your upstream neighbor buids a dam and you own 1000 acres, you probably have a backhoe to take care of it.

if you are drawing more than your fair share from the grid, the electric company tracks that and should bill you accordingly, then invest money into infrastructure rather than CEO pocket liners.

it's not up to the government to decide what the average person can do if they can't figure their own **** out.

 

[LoneGunman]

Gents....I want to appologize for the following comment:



There are about a dozen different ways to imply that a statement was without merit without using "Blow it out your...."....it was not intended as a personal attack on anyone.....mainly a poor choice of words on my part....though it is one of my favorit phrases......

I'm guilty of the very thing I frequently complain about....

Back to the original issue....

As Terry points out...


The difference never ocured to me....I intended to use CFL's from the onset and with the 6" fixtures so cheap ($32 for a box of 6), seemed like a good way to go.

I have 2 13W 2pin style lights above the kitchen sink...those stay on about 8 or more hours a day....after 8 yeas I'm on the third set of bulbs.....

What I like about the CFL is that the only thing to break is in the whole bulb...if it goes...I replace the bulb....but if the ballast in the other goes....you have to rip everything apart to get at the ballast...

Blow it out your azz ,Barney.

Ummmmmm where exactly are you a Deputy at?

 

[Torque1st]

Appology accepted, I did not mean the comment in a derogatory or "blow it out your *** because you live in California" manner. I meant it as a warning that California can be "different" and there may be different rules out there because of the progressive legislative environment.

Personally I will be using pin type 4' flourescents everywhere in my new garage and shop. I also have replaced the incandescents every place I can with CFLs In my house. The only place I don't have CFLs are:
-Where we actually USE dimmers (except one location).
-Glass fixtures where the bulb is part of the aesthetics and it requires clear bulbs.
-Where the bulb is used very infrequently and the energy cost per year is nill.


All my present garage and shop lights are 4' fluorescents with one CFL. I do have one 30/36" tube in one location also.

I am trying to talk SWMBO into ditching the dimmer for the can lights in the living room since all we ever do in there is punch the dimmer switch on and off and it is turned up all the way anyway. I have been unsuccessful as yet. It may just get "done" the next time a bulb burns out anyway or that dimmer switch dies.

California does lead the way on many green issues I just think some of the "solutions" introduced there and at the federal level are not well thought out and are largely driven by somewhat well-meaning politics and reactionary "science" instead of practicality and what is best for the country long-term.

EDIT- BTW, my daughter lives in southern California (Santa Monica) and I don't even talk to her since I can not even open my mouth in her presence without being jumped on for some perceived politically incorrect meaning. I would say it is something in the air or water out there but it can't be. She has been that way since she was 12 years old and her parents were the dumbest creatures on Earth. Her mother is now able to converse with her but I can not. She insults me every time she opens her mouth so I just avoid all contact. Sometime before I die I hope that changes but I am certainly not holding my breath.

 

[ghlkal]

I just think some of the "solutions" introduced there and at the federal level are not well thought out and are largely driven by somewhat well-meaning politics and reactionary "science" instead of practicality and what is best for the country long-term.

Well said.

 

[ddawg16]

To answer a couple of questions.....

My garage is a new build....I tore down my old 18'x20' detached and I'm building a new 20'x25' with a second floor.....here is an old pic from about 1 month ago....I now have the roof on...

I bought the fixtures from Home Depot...Halo brand, box of 6 for $32....I bought and installed 3 boxes on the bottom floor....the wife and I will decide later what to do upstairs....rafters are 2x6 so the cans won't fit.

As for California.....I was born and raised in Texas...I have been out here in CA for about 21 years now....love it...best move I ever made....I'll never live in Texas again.....

I just don't see the issues that non-Californians claim.....I think it has something to do with listening to the mainscream media.....

While everyone wants to think that CA is headed towards a 1984 state, I think the oposite.....

In reality CA is planning ahead.....experience has taught her that "It's not going to get better on it's own." So what you are seeing is a proactive approach to problems.....Don't believe me? Then ask Houston how it took over the #1 spot from LA for smog......and Houston does not have any mountains around it to hold the smog in....

 

[RoadBeater]

I have converted some of my higher use lights to CFL's, but have been disappointed in the "warm up" time it takes them to generate light. I'm afraid if I replaced bathroom or hallway lights, you'd have to stop and wait for the light to start first. I have tried a couple of different brands, is there a brand that you are having better luck with?

 

[Gary S]

I might be all wrong here, but I don't believe there is any code problems using the old screw-in sockets. The code problem comes with the use of "recessed" fixtures. Recessed fixtures have always been a fire problem because of cooling them with incandescent lamps, and now that halogen lamps exist, the heat issues are even bigger. You can install recessed fixtures correctly and put in the CFLs, but there is nothing to stop someone else from coming in later and putting incandescent or halogen bulbs, or worse yet, packing around the fixture on the top with insulation. This is where the code problems arise.
Properly installed recessed fixtures are no problem. Improper installation or use can be a problem.

 

[a3tripod]

I just had the inspector out to inspect my roof so I can get it covered.....

He noticed the 24 6" recessed lights I had....some already had CFL's in them....that is when I heard the "Oh Oh".....

It seems that you can't use fixtures with the edison screw in type....it has to be the pin type...as he explained, what is to stop you from swaping out the CFL's with incandescents after the inspection...

So now I need to contact Halo and see if I can get a retrofit socket for the fixtures....

Just another detail for the knowlege base.....

I called our fire chief and he said screw-in type CFLs are fine as long as there is a layer of gypsum between the can housing and the space above it. More over, he pointed out that you need to be sure you use CFL bulbs that are rated fro high heat applications. I needed to box mine in anyway, since I'm going to spray Icenene all up in there, so to put a layer of gypsum is no biggie.

 

[tatra]

just some extra info on cfl s

 

[BigChevy80]

There is only so much electricity to go around....so, if the local govt 'requires' that you use lights that use 1/5th the energy so that everyone else has enough energy to light their house and cook meals for their kids...that is wrong?

Yes it is wrong... If there's a shortage of power then how about building another power plant? Oh wait, I forgot, we can't build coal fired plants because we might make the so-called "global warming" worse. Oh and we can't build nuclear plants because they are "dangerous". Guess we'll just stick with what we got and impose a bunch of BS legislation on people to delay the inevitable...

And I agree that California has A LOT to do with it, with all the hippie tree-huggers out there who aren't content unless they are bitching about something or imposing their distorted views on other people. I don't need the federal government telling me what lightbulbs I can and can't use in MY OWN home.

I just think some of the "solutions" introduced there and at the federal level are not well thought out and are largely driven by somewhat well-meaning politics and reactionary "science" instead of practicality and what is best for the country long-term.

You just summed up the liberal/environmentalist movement in one sentence...

 

[MisterCMK]

There is only so much electricity to go around....so, if the local govt 'requires' that you use lights that use 1/5th the energy so that everyone else has enough energy to light their house and cook meals for their kids...that is wrong?

Quite frankly, whether nor not somebody has enough electricity to cook meals for their kids is not my problem. I am billed according to the electricity that I use. If I use more electricity I pay more money every month. If the electric grid is at capacity already then it is time to add more capacity to the system. You can't conserve your way out of not enough electricity when demand will continue to grow...

 

[ScaldedDog]

California - Too many rules, too many fools. I love to visit, but would never live there.

We used to decide whether there was enough electricity - or anything else - with this little thing called "price", driven by a couple of forces called "supply" and "demand". They served a great purpose for a long time, and drove this country to be the envy of the world. (Check the immigration statistics...) Alas, they have become passé, and have been replaced by the non-forces of "hope" and "change", to the shame of the nation.

No offense intended to the original poster. For at least one day in November, 52% of Americans agreed with you. I'm hoping that number is a good bit under 50% in two years.

Mark

 

[eville]

Perhaps these will work for you....
http://www.shop.com/Socket_Converte..._SA-142816755-172242605-p!.shtml?sourceid=298

or one of these...
http://www.goodmart.com/products/cfl_lampholder_and_socket.htm

 

[StumpFJ40]

Ahhh it's amazing how politics can seep into something as simple as an issue with a light bulb and a garage.
I have a couple issues/questions.

"It seems that you can't use fixtures with the edison screw in type....it has to be the pin type...as he explained, what is to stop you from swaping out the CFL's with incandescents after the inspection..."

You stated this was an energy thing, so they are basically mandating this based on predicting someone's intent? Now THAT is very scary. The fact that either type bulb fits is the issue? How about a car... hmmm my catalytic converter unbolts from my exhaust system so, I could potentially put it in for inspection, but what's to stop me from going home and replacing it with a piece of pipe? I guess the solution is to have the engine and exhaust welded into the car then we're sure you won't try it. Just think of it as us saving us from ourselves.

Oh, and as far as energy goes... our neighbor did build a dam and that neighbor is Canada and we buy lots of power from them... If your curious check out the good deal we (U.S) got from Quebec on the cost of electricity (for real) then look at how they screwed New Foundland on the price... comical really. Now to ensure the power companies actually put your money you paid for your power into upgrading the infrastructure and not into their executive pockets, they'll need an oversight office from a (somewhat) disinterested 3rd party (read government). Perhaps "more government" is not the correct word... it should be referred to as selective or focused governing to keep these big executive a$$hats and their minions from getting rich with no real consequences at the expense of my livelyhood.

Rant off. whew