Improving Pole Barn Ceiling insulation

[Fueler]

The time has come to improve the ceiling part of my Morton Pole Barn. It has the original insulation that is laid down before the sheeting goes on. That might be enough but the problem with these buildings is that they are really leaky. Not a big problem until the wind picks up and then you realize the issue and the fuel usage goes up. I have already done the walls in the past and they are as good as they are going to get. Whatever that insulation is it has held up well since 85. No sagging or condensation issues. Pretty stiff to the touch.

After some study I think what I want to use is the prodex bubble stuff.
http://www.insulation4less.com/
This can be stapled to the beams, leaving an air gap between it and the original insulation. This should effectively seal the roof line and add a little insulation at the same time. At the moment this prodex stuff looks like the easiest and least expensive way to cover my roof line and give me a shiny ceiling in the process.

I am looking for feedback from anyone, Pro or otherwise, on the use of the Prodex or my plan.
Also willing to listen to alternative plans.
Thanks

 

[VC-Racing]

I've got my 900 sq ft shop insulated with a "Double Bubble Insulation" . I've been impressed with its performance in the summer and now its just starting to get cold enough to use heat in my shop, so the jury's out on heating at the moment . I'm in the process of researching a heating unit now, but I'm using a 40,000 btu propane salamander heater and its just barley enough to keep it tolerable. My shop is 13'6 to the bottom of the truss and then a additional 6ft to the ridge vent, so my shop ceiling is roughly 20' ft tall. So until I get a properly sized heating unit I'm unsure if I'll need to add any insulation also.

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

Looks like a great solution if your not wanting to hang a lid in there. I'm in the exact same boat your in, but I'm pretty sure I going to hang a lid in mine. I dont want to heat and cool all that cube inside the trusses

I'm planning on hanging corrugated steel, like you have on the exterior of your building, for a ceiling. Then planning on blowing vermiculite on top of it, but somewhere in there I need a radiant barrier. I can feel the sun punching through the tin of the roof in the summer (Ive got the same kind of roofing insulation you show, just under the tin when it was built), and Ive got it air conditioned, the A/C never turns off if the sun is out. I'm thinking the product you found would work wonders for the a radiant barrier for me, and then incorporate the lid below. Thanks for the post, I learned something today! Best Wishes, Bill

 

[Fueler]

Bill,
Ditto on the AC runtime.
As I understand it, for the Prodex to work it needs an air space on both sides to function. Maybe not?
To add a "lid" one would have to carefully put the Prodex down a little between the 2x4s which might be a pain. Maybe a corrugated sheet would have enough leak for it to function. Mine would be "on top" (bottom?)of the studs, acting as the ceiling (like your sheet would)

Looking at example pictures on their site it looks like it should stay put without a lid. My contact there also said it would not sag which was a sticking point for me. Seems hard to believe that it wouldn't stretch and contract some.

I tend to believe at the moment that the reflective value and just getting the leaks sealed up there will be a huge improvement. Any added R value will be a bonus.

My AC is semi-affordable but I sure want to take some money away from the propane guy's retirement fund!

All right or all wet?

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

Here's my thought, and Ive given it lots of thought. I don't really want to hang a lid, but the cube above it mandates that I do it. Ive done something similar in another building back in the 80's, the heating and cooling difference was enormous, so I cant get around that. Anyhow, everything I bring through the door has the potential of fire. So what ever I put overhead needs some kind of burn time. Id hang foil faced Styrofoam boards up there and call it done, if I thought it was safe. If I caught something on fire, and it leaped to the ceiling, the place would be gone in minutes. If I hang steel, Ive got a minute or two to react, get the fire extinguishers running, water hose, move the fire outside, something.

I could hang rock, but its some damn heavy, and I hate working with it, but it would afford the best burn time. Also Id have to add lumber to affix the rock, so there would not be serious sagging, and you also need boards to bring the seams together, spelled "more work", plus tape and mud, lots more work. But on the flip side it would be the tightest lid you could put in. My building is very "loose", the guy who built it didn't bother with a vapor barrier or a house wrap, so the wind just pushes through the tin and insulation and right into the shop. So I'm still at some loss as to what to do, where the "value" is at all things considered.

My initial plan was to hang the corrugated steel, then place the foil faced rigid Styrofoam on top of the steel, and then I was going to blow vermiculite on top of that. An air gap between the tin the Styrofoam would be optimum, but I'm not sure how Id go about that.

The Prodex, I'm guessing, wants space on both sides, because stagnate air is a great insulator (makes it easier for them to hit the R-value they are selling). I'm also guessing for the radiant barrier to work best, the air pocket is part of the physics as how it reflects, and needs that space. If you're talking about that being your ceiling, or lid, alone, you've got your air space on both sides, lots of it. I cant believe it wont sag, short of gluing it to another substrate that wont sag, I mean if you attached it at the ends and hung it between the bottom of the trusses, at some point it will sag (Id expect to be sagging as you hang it ?), how much, probably only one way to find out.

Off the direction of the exact subject at hand, I had a neighbor buy a trucking company terminal, he jacked out the floor of the dock which was at 4', poured a new floor and turned the whole thing into a shop. At that point his lid was up around 25' and he didn't want to heat all that space. He went to Raynor garage doors, in Dixon, IL and bought "seconds" insulated commercial garage door panels from them that had cosmetic flaws. They are "tongue and grove", so with some wood screws with fender washers and he had a sweet insulated ceiling. The door panels where the style that had the expanded foam blown into them and had thin sheet metal on both sides. Went up fast, looked great, strong, functional, safe. Don't remember what he paid for them, I'm sure it wasn't much, it was their "garbage". Id love to find a truck load of those.

So I guess I'm still "on the fence", but need to do something with it soon. Ive been putting it off, because I haven't decided whats the best way to go, suppose I wont find out until after its done ?

Maybe there are some other ideas floating around out there ? Gentlemen, anyone care to chime in ?

 

[Fueler]

Yup, there is the fire thing to consider. Chances are that if there is a fire big enough to get that high it's a done deal anyway.

Original insulation:
I am considering taping the creases where the rolls meet while I am up there (before the Prodex or whatever goes on).
I find it interesting that my centers are 20". Guess that was to make the spacing even for the pitch length.

Going to chat with the Prodex people again as far as the sagging thing goes and about this overlay deal.
Either way I will probably start with just the Prodex and eyeball it through another winter and summer and see how I feel about covering it up.

 

[Nutty 5.0]

I went ghetto, but it worked using some 4x8 foam board and then blowing a few inches on top after sealing all gaps with some spray foam insulation. It maintains heat in there very well. You can see what I did in my sig for my garage.

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

Going to chat with the Prodex people again as far as the sagging thing goes and about this overlay deal.
Either way I will probably start with just the Prodex and eyeball it through another winter and summer and see how I feel about covering it up.

Dave, keep me posted as to what you do, Im interested, If I pull the trigger first, I will let you know what I did, Bill

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

I went ghetto, but it worked using some 4x8 foam board and then blowing a few inches on top after sealing all gaps with some spray foam insulation. It maintains heat in there very well. You can see what I did in my sig for my garage.

I wouldn't call it ghetto, its fully function, affordable, simple, serves several purposes, Id love to do mine the way you did yours, but the fire thing scares the hell out of me. Ive got an obscene amount of money ******* in tools and equipment (42, never married or had kids, and everything is paid for, so my tool budget is a little wacko), and on the other side of the wall are 9 horses, several Tennessee walkers, those run more than the average new car. Oh, and next to the horses inside the barn, on average, 10-20 thousand pounds of hay! Try putting that out. You got about one minute to get started putting that out, on that much grass in one place, and you cant throw enough water at it to stop it, all you can do is contian it.

I also spent some time fighting fires (unprofessionally of course), most the fires Ive been to are car fires, some in garages, most not, but I bet Ive seen 10 car fires for every structure fire.

Once that Styrofoam on the lid starts going, and dripping down on everything, its all bad. Over the years I have set several vehicles on fire. All where carbureted and I dont much play with carbs anymore, but its still fresh in my mind. Then there are the welding and plasma/torch accidents... Ive got ABC's, carbon dioxide and water fire extinguishers everywhere, as well a water hose with a baby "fire hose nozzle" on it, so I'm somewhat ready.

After proof reading my post, I think I just sold myself a sprinkler system !

 

[Fueler]

After proof reading my post, I think I just sold myself a sprinkler system !

In your case I think that is the best idea. Seems like too many fires start when you are not around or aware.

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

Hi Dave, when I said spent some time fighting fires, what I meant was, I was a volunteer fire fighter, until I moved to where I live now, those where not my fires, although Ive had my own. I don't think I mentioned, but Ive got a 4 post lift, If something goes awry, while Ive got a car in the air, my fire would already be at my lid, or at least it will be when I put the lid in. I get into all kinds of repair, and use the torch regularly.