In Ceiling Speakers....how many?

[Angelfire]

Hiya Folks,
I'm far from an audiophile and haven't looked at equipment in years so am starting out from ground zero here. I'm looking forward to getting my drywall up and had the thought to go ahead and run some class 2 speaker cables for future use. I have two spaces that are ~600SF each and pretty much rectangles. These spaces are separated by a partition that will be drywalled on both sides. Each space is roughly 20x30 just for simplicity. I was looking at the monoprice speakers that have been discussed here before but got to wondering just how many speakers I should have. I'm not looking to turn this workshop into a 100db, cause your ears to bleed type of place but would like something that provides a decent sound level and audio quality. Would going with 2 speakers per space be enough or should I just be planning to do 4 in each space? I don't have a receiver at the moment so that would possibly be the next purchase. I wouldn't be listening in both areas at the same time. I may also look to tie in a television but am not looking for theatre like surround sound. Plain old stereo is just fine for me. I figured I might as well get the wiring in now while things are opened up and then worry about the receiver, etc..... Primary use will be for local radio, CD's, iPhone, and possibly the television, should I ever install one. Oh, and streaming music.

I'd appreciate any inputs from folks who have installed the in ceiling speakers and would ask for opinions on just how many of these I might need. Oh, I should mention, one space has a 10' ceiling and the other space is at 13'. Thanks in advance.
Cheers.

 

[VWTim]

My shop is broken into 2 areas as well. 12x36 and 25x36. I plan to run 2 speakers in each side, granted I have exposed trusses. My main concern with 4 is weird echos or reflections from all the hard surfaces in the shop.

 

[Angelfire]

Thanks. The thought had crossed my mind with regards to speakers pointing down to the hard concrete floor might cause lousy acoustics. But considering what I've been using for the past umpteen years (an old beat up boom box), I figured it'll be better than what I have now! And at this point, I'm just putting the wire in for future use. Thanks for the input.
Cheers.

 

[The Cobbler]

More speakers means less volume to achieve a comfortable listening level (Think Grocery store, the volume is low but every so often there is a speaker, rather than a few blaring in the corners so you can hear them everywhere. for 600 sqft I would consider 4 speakers .
also be sure to match the impedance of your amp so you don't blow that . some good online calculators for multiple speaker configurations

 

[8man]

I'd go with 4 toward the corners, at least that is what the audio people who did my house did. About 1/3 in from the corner leaving about 2/3 of the ceiling toward the center. No reflection and low volume is easy to hear.

 

[Angelfire]

Thank you. I was leaning towards 4 but having zero experience with the in ceiling units, thought I'd ask for confirmation. Thanks very much.

 

[Ruthless53]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0047PPR2A/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I wouldn't put anything expensive in a garage due to dust likely shortening the lifespan.

I put these speakers in my garage and also in my friends house with a higher end amp and a high end sub I found cheap on amazon warehouse. Spent $800 (merchandise cost no labor) on his set up and it sounds just as good as my setup i paid home theater guy $3000 for.

 

[Barnabas]

More is usually not better. You get phase cancelation if your ears are not the same distance from the two speakers. This perfect place that is equal distance from the two speakers is usually called the "sweet spot."

A pair of speakers with a stereo signal to them can have a wide sweet spot. This is because you have different sound coming from the two speakers.

Two speakers with the exact same signal, like two "right" speakers near each other will have phasing problems. That means wherever you are between the two speakers, certain frequencies will disappear.

In a shop, most folks would not notice.

I will leave the sine-wave physics lesson for another day.

 

[Angelfire]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0047PPR2A/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I wouldn't put anything expensive in a garage due to dust likely shortening the lifespan.

I put these speakers in my garage and also in my friends house with a higher end amp and a high end sub I found cheap on amazon warehouse. Spent $800 (merchandise cost no labor) on his set up and it sounds just as good as my setup i paid home theater guy $3000 for.

Thanks. Trust me, this will not be a high end system! I was actually looking at the Monoprice offerings but your link gives me an alternative. At the moment, it's really just about determining the number of speakers so I can rough in the wire before I insulate/sheetrock. Thanks for the link!

 

[Angelfire]

More is usually not better. You get phase cancelation if your ears are not the same distance from the two speakers. This perfect place that is equal distance from the two speakers is usually called the "sweet spot."

A pair of speakers with a stereo signal to them can have a wide sweet spot. This is because you have different sound coming from the two speakers.

Two speakers with the exact same signal, like two "right" speakers near each other will have phasing problems. That means wherever you are between the two speakers, certain frequencies will disappear.

In a shop, most folks would not notice.

I will leave the sine-wave physics lesson for another day.

So given a space of this size (actually two separate spaces) are you advocating 2 speakers per area or ????

 

[rattle_snake]

More is usually not better. You get phase cancelation if your ears are not the same distance from the two speakers. This perfect place that is equal distance from the two speakers is usually called the "sweet spot."

A pair of speakers with a stereo signal to them can have a wide sweet spot. This is because you have different sound coming from the two speakers.

Two speakers with the exact same signal, like two "right" speakers near each other will have phasing problems. That means wherever you are between the two speakers, certain frequencies will disappear.

In a shop, most folks would not notice.

I will leave the sine-wave physics lesson for another day.

Good advice here.
OP, since your source signal is 'stereo' (aka 2 channels) you will get ideal performance (imaging, sound stage, blah blah) with 2 speakers. Any more will not help, however as stated most people can't perceive good from bad.
I recommend 1 pair in each room located along one wall that is closest to where you spend most of the time in that room.
Spend 2x as much on 2 decent pairs instead of additional lower cost speakers.
The reflection off the floor won't be an big issue. We can calculate the incident to reflection ratio but not until the sine wave lesson is complete
The garage environment is not as rough as an automotive environment. If you concerned go with car audio gear.
If you want the best sound you will need to experiment with exact location. Pick a product, mount it on a baffle or in a box and temporarily try a few locations. pick your favorite and wire for it. However given you goal of completing drywall this may be a bit much...
Plan B would be to run extra wire and put a drop in at each corner about 3' from each side wall. good luck.

 

[Angelfire]

Thanks Justin. This is more than I want to bother with (ie. looking for optimal sound) as I just want something I can play background music through (and plan for perhaps TV down the road). Again, I'm not looking for high end sound here as I mentioned before, I've been listening to a 20 year old boom box forever and it's been fine. My main motivation here was to determine the number of places to drop wire now before I seal up the ceiling for future use (possibly). I don't have an attic space so getting the speaker wire in now is ideal. Do you think then, that 2 8" in ceiling speakers would be adequate? If so, then I need to run wires to 4 locations. Otherwise it's 8 locations. I know that's very subjective and you and I are probably in two very different spaces about what is adequate. I would like something that gives decent background music with the odd time that the music gets turned up a bit...I have neighbors and I typically work at night in the garage so can't get overly crazy.

Thanks very much for your inputs!

 

[jgregt]

Is the OP dead-set on ceiling speakers?

There are number of other options that might work. I use a pair of 3-way speakers and an old receiver in my garage -- picked them up through craigslist. A pair of 2-way bookshelf speakers would also do the trick.

In my kitchen, I use a three piece computer speaker system. The two satellite speakers and the sub sit on top of my wall cupboards, power and audio cord go down to the counter in a gap in the corner. It gets louder than I need and I'm sure would be loud enough for my garage.

I like to hear my music coming from two distinct points. I knew a guy once with whole house audio with ceiling speakers and the sound came from everywhere and not from a specific point. Sounded odd to me. You could hear the speaker over your head, but you'd also hear the audio from other rooms. Very much like the "grocery store" effect mentioned above.

I like the ability to change things around if parts go bad, if my tastes change, or if I want to try something new. Just some food for thought.

 

[Blue XJ]

Mine aren't in ceiling, but I have 2 older Pioneer book shelf speakers in my 700 foot garage. I have them on top of two hanging cabinets so they are out of the way, they are probably 8' high, I can hear them just fine everywhere in the garage.

If you already have the speakers, hook up 4, if you have to buy them, I'd go with two.

 

[Angelfire]

Is the OP dead-set on ceiling speakers?

There are number of other options that might work. I use a pair of 3-way speakers and an old receiver in my garage -- picked them up through craigslist. A pair of 2-way bookshelf speakers would also do the trick.

In my kitchen, I use a three piece computer speaker system. The two satellite speakers and the sub sit on top of my wall cupboards, power and audio cord go down to the counter in a gap in the corner. It gets louder than I need and I'm sure would be loud enough for my garage.

I like to hear my music coming from two distinct points. I knew a guy once with whole house audio with ceiling speakers and the sound came from everywhere and not from a specific point. Sounded odd to me. You could hear the speaker over your head, but you'd also hear the audio from other rooms. Very much like the "grocery store" effect mentioned above.

I like the ability to change things around if parts go bad, if my tastes change, or if I want to try something new. Just some food for thought.

I was looking at the in ceiling just to avoid having the speakers sitting out on a shelf or cabinet and being dust magnets. It's very dusty here! But you bring up a good point regarding the "sound from everywhere" you get with in ceiling. I could also do in wall but would rather avoid that as it would affect possible future shelf/cabinet space. I may just re-think hanging some speakers up in the corners and calling it done!
Cheers.

 

[rattle_snake]

.... My main motivation here was to determine the number of places to drop wire now before I seal up the ceiling for future use (possibly).... Do you think then, that 2 8" in ceiling speakers would be adequate? If so, then I need to run wires to 4 locations. Otherwise it's 8 locations.

Yes a pair of 8" ceiling speakers will be sufficient. Wire is cheap, and since your sealing up the ceiling and have just one shot, just go ahead and run 8 wires (one to each corner of both spaces).
You could also use these wire drops for regular (bookshelf or whatever) speakers mounted on the wall or on a shelf up high.

 

[rschneider]

I will throw out a different option. If you are planning on having a tv and playing the sound through the speakers you want them located next to the screen on either side. I used a flat panel tv with analog audio outputs to feed two powered monitors. With the monitors wall mounted. I use a Chromecast to stream to the TV, and the TV volume controls the speaker level.

http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/recording-broadcast/3-series/lsr305#.WHUatfkrKUk

I used these speakers and they provide plenty of volume for the 20x20 space I use them in, for me anyway. If you check around you can find them for around $200 a pair. There are also less expensive options as well. By using powered monitors you eliminate the need for a separate amplifier Which saves some $$.

 

[Bruce 993 SEA]

Is the OP dead-set on ceiling speakers?

There are number of other options that might work. I use a pair of 3-way speakers and an old receiver in my garage -- picked them up through craigslist. A pair of 2-way bookshelf speakers would also do the trick.

In my kitchen, I use a three piece computer speaker system. The two satellite speakers and the sub sit on top of my wall cupboards, power and audio cord go down to the counter in a gap in the corner. It gets louder than I need and I'm sure would be loud enough for my garage.

I like to hear my music coming from two distinct points. I knew a guy once with whole house audio with ceiling speakers and the sound came from everywhere and not from a specific point. Sounded odd to me. You could hear the speaker over your head, but you'd also hear the audio from other rooms. Very much like the "grocery store" effect mentioned above.

I like the ability to change things around if parts go bad, if my tastes change, or if I want to try something new. Just some food for thought.

I resemble this observation. I too use 3 way speakers and a decent powered receiver, 2 speakers only. (I just scared myself...they are from my college days and are 40 years old...have replaced woofers though....)

I cannot imagine getting any base from ceiling mounted speakers. It would just sound annoying and tinny to me like the grocery store example.

I have my speakers up on the shelves above the fray and get good sound in my 2 car 525 ft sq garage.

Soon to be moving to a 750 ft sq garage with a 280 ft sq carport next to it that will soon be enclosed. Oh, there is a nice 2 br house attached... It (the garage) should be a nice big area to fill with sound.

I like keeping the speakers separated...I have looked at a number of pictures of small "bookshelf" stereos in garages here and the speakers are 4 ft apart. Spread 'em out !

Cheers!

 

[James-W]

We used to have a woodworking repair shop locally and the guy repaired furniture, or whatever else that you had made from wood. Anyway, he had 6 speakers in the ceiling and he had music playing softly. Seemed to work out pretty well for him, although when he was using some of his equipment you couldn't hear the music. He didn't have any fancy high tech sound system equipment, just a receiver and a tape deck that plugged into the receiver. He used the radio part of the receiver more than anything else.

Forgot to mention, the shop was about 30ft by 40ft if I remember correctly.

 

[jgregt]

I resemble this observation. I too use 3 way speakers and a decent powered receiver, 2 speakers only. (I just scared myself...they are from my college days and are 40 years old...have replaced woofers though....)

I cannot imagine getting any base from ceiling mounted speakers. It would just sound annoying and tinny to me like the grocery store example.

I have my speakers up on the shelves above the fray and get good sound in my 2 car 525 ft sq garage.

Soon to be moving to a 750 ft sq garage with a 280 ft sq carport next to it that will soon be enclosed. Oh, there is a nice 2 br house attached... It (the garage) should be a nice big area to fill with sound.

I like keeping the speakers separated...I have looked at a number of pictures of small "bookshelf" stereos in garages here and the speakers are 4 ft apart. Spread 'em out !

Cheers!

Haha, I still have my college 3-way speakers, too.... with replaced woofers.

I have mine up on shelves also, but I am not as happy with the sound, so I will probably put them back on the floor in the corner so I can get more low end from the boundary effect.

 

[ScottsGT]

I would avoid ceiling speakers for two possible reasons. 1) reflections off the floor. This will create an issue and will cause sound issues. 2) is there a living space above the garage? If so you need to have a sealed ceiling so no fumes can get into that area.
I do this stuff for a living. CTS certified with Infocomm International. (Yes, certified A/V geek)
I could pull out all the math and charts and sound pressure levels needed, but with a concrete floor, just don't do it. Unless you are going to be like me and have a garage full of clutter to break up things.
Throw some speaker up on the wall at a slight downward and inward angle.

We did a large auditorium here on campus that has a very low acoustical tiled ceiling with an angled floor. Lots of carpet and padded seats. We had to triple the amount of speakers that the contractor put in years ago because the room was so dead.
It was like putting towels over all the original speakers in there.

 

[Angelfire]

I would avoid ceiling speakers for two possible reasons. 1) reflections off the floor. This will create an issue and will cause sound issues. 2) is there a living space above the garage? If so you need to have a sealed ceiling so no fumes can get into that area.
I do this stuff for a living. CTS certified with Infocomm International. (Yes, certified A/V geek)
I could pull out all the math and charts and sound pressure levels needed, but with a concrete floor, just don't do it. Unless you are going to be like me and have a garage full of clutter to break up things.
Throw some speaker up on the wall at a slight downward and inward angle.

We did a large auditorium here on campus that has a very low acoustical tiled ceiling with an angled floor. Lots of carpet and padded seats. We had to triple the amount of speakers that the contractor put in years ago because the room was so dead.
It was like putting towels over all the original speakers in there.

Thanks. It's a detached garage so nothing above. I do plan to probably do some sort of wood flooring on the wood side of the shop but the auto side will be porcelain. But with regards to clutter, I'm really good at clutter!

Thanks for the feedback!
Cheers.

 

[Kaizen]

I was looking at the in ceiling just to avoid having the speakers sitting out on a shelf or cabinet and being dust magnets. It's very dusty here! But you bring up a good point regarding the "sound from everywhere" you get with in ceiling. I could also do in wall but would rather avoid that as it would affect possible future shelf/cabinet space. I may just re-think hanging some speakers up in the corners and calling it done!
Cheers.

I would stick to bookshelf speakers. you can get a good pair for 100 bucks or some bose for couple hundred. two in the top corners of one wall.
problem with in ceiling is several. good ones have a subwoofer type enclosure behind it to keep the sound in the room and not above. if you have one go you need to get same size. if you don't like the sound of bookshelf you can move the direction of them while ceiling your locked in to the location. just more speaker for the money. you can always just put them in a cabinet with a speaker type front and just crank it to blow the dust off it ! Consider exterior patio type speakers. I put in a pair of bose 151's I think 10 years ago and they still work awesome. had it on while out shoveling the other day.

 

[CJ7VFR]

....Consider exterior patio type speakers. I put in a pair of bose 151's I think 10 years ago and they still work awesome. had it on while out shoveling the other day.

I will agree with this.

I bought two sets of outdoor patio speakers from Lowes to use in my garage. They were on sale when I got them. I think they were about $60.00 a set. They normally sell for around $99.00 a set.

They are not as good as Bose, but they sound great in the garage, and I also ended up buying a set to put out on the patio so we can listen to music on our deck.

What I like about them is that they can be aimed to face pretty much where ever you want, and because they can mount on a horizontal or vertical ceiling/wall, they did not take up any shelf space in my garage. Shelf space is at a premium in my garage since it not that big.

Here is a link for the ones I have: https://www.lowes.com/pd/On-Q-Legrand-Set-Of-2-100-Watt-White-Rectangular-Speakers/1070651

Jim

 

[Todd.Brock]

Hi. I have had good results with Parts Express speakers, Dayton brand. I have used 6" in wall speakers that have left and right channels on same frame.
It's these, but not enclosed. Mine were in a basement. http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-cs620ec-6-1-2-2-way-enclosed-ceiling-speaker--300-417

Volume control
http://www.parts-express.com/audtek...ng-rotary-speaker-volume-control-50w--300-560