In ceiling speakers?

[BSAschields]

Any one have any experience with speakers in the ceiling. What brand is best and any other tips?

I am insulating and rewiring a ceiling that is 8 inches deep. Metal roof on top and will blow in cellulose . While it is bare rafters and the wiring is being done for recessed lighting I thought I would run wires for speakers. Any suggestions are much appreciated.
Thanks

 

[jmiller_2308]

I put ceiling speakers in the new garage addition which allows me to compare them nicely with the box speakers in the original garage. I also have ceiling/wall speakers throughout the house.

I really like that the ceiling speakers make for a much cleaner look and keep wires out of site. I also put multiple speakers in so that I could disperse the noise everywhere instead of from just one point. You can do that with bookshelf and other speakers but I think it is easier and cleaner looking with ceiling and in wall speakers. I have far fewer issues with dust collecting on ceiling speakers than I did with my bookshelf speakers.

In the house I have 6" boston acoustic speakers with some powered sub-woofers on each floor to fill them in. They give very nice and clean sound and the sub really helps to round out the bottom. I would have used them again in the garage if they didn't cost so dang much.

I really can't hear as well as I did 20 years ago and in the shop there is often enough other noise going on that it really isn't high fidelity out there. For cost sake I decided to try some 8" pyle speakers along with an unpowered 10" in wall subwoofer I got off ebay. I wanted to use the sub to fill in some of the missing low end in the bas that I thought might be in the pyles.

After installing everything I found the 8" pyles don't have as much upper end and are a bit muddy when compared to the bas or the all weather yamaha and infinity bookends that I had in the old garage but they aren't bad and for several hundred dollars less they sound quite good. I also figure that I can easily upgrade from the pyles if I want to later. If I were to do it again I'd probably go down to the 6" pyles along with the in wall sub. It seems like the 6" would have a bit more high and less low to create the muddiness and the sub would easily make up for the difference. Of course, the 8" don't do bad without the sub but the sub really adds something special that makes it fun to have with the 8" as well.

As for powering multiple speakers you may need to look at how many outputs your amp has and how much power it provides. I am using an older denon that came out of my media room and only has 75 watts per channel. I bought a niles switcher off ebay so that I could run 6 sets of speakers from the A channel and run everything in stereo mode. I then added niles volume controls in the different areas so that I could leave the amp at one level and fine tune the volume at each zone (old garage, new garage, garden outside the shop). I also added a plate amplifier to power the in wall sub because after powering all the speakers there just isn't enough power left in the old amp to drive the sub.

One thing that I did when installing the in ceiling/wall speakers was to build a box around them using 1.5" foam and sealing all the seams. This allowed me to create a large speaker box that helps develop the sound and also keeps more of the noise in my garage instead of creeping out the walls and roof to the neighbors. The sub still rattles outside but since my closest neighbors are all at least 500' away I don't think it will be an issue.

So summarizing:

- You can get sound from in ceiling/wall speakers that will rival most bookshelf speakers if you do a fair price comparison. However, I think you can get a better in ceiling/wall speaker at the low to mid-price range than you would from a bookshelf (YMMV).

- Whichever way you go, more speakers to spread the noise evenly provides a much nicer environment than having a single area that noise comes from.

- If adding a number of speakers be careful about how you load an amp and look into a switcher or other devices if necessary to ensure that you maintain the proper loading on the amp.

 

[wizness]

For the price monoprice.com speakers are hard to beat. Tons of reviews and good price. I installed them throughout my whole house.

 

[sselander]

Monoprice has a good selection, and good prices on wiring.
http://www.monoprice.com/

 

[GRX]

Always use quality large gauge wires. Really comes into play when running long lengths across the attic.

 

[fountainpenracing]

I use Bose outdoor speakers in the garage. They are not in the ceiling, I mounted them high on the front wall and they sound great. I use a Pile Pro power amp with them and can connect my ipod or laptop when I'm in the garage.

 

[jmiller_2308]

Always use quality large gauge wires. Really comes into play when running long lengths across the attic.

I'd agree with that but for some reason it seems the trend in the industry is to go smaller.

I remember when monster cables came out they must have been 10 gauge fine stranded wire. They really held up great and ton's better than any other speaker cable I've ever come across.

Per what I've been reading people seem to be running 16 gauge for whole house applications but that seems incredibly small. I'd go with 14 as a minimum and 12 would be better. I used 12 gauge with fine strands with pairs encapsulated in a white sleeve. I like the looks of this much better than conventional speaker wire and I believe it may be a code requirement in some locales.

The one issue I had with 12 gauge was that I found the niles equipment terminations were a bit small to handle that size wire.

 

[bad_idea]

I put two regular speakers in the ceiling in my 14x20 garage. The sound bounces off the floor and sounds terrible at higher volumes.

 

[Hpozzuoli]

I use them in my laundromats. I get (got) them at radio shack. They are white colored. I believe they are 6.5" round speakers. I run them off Sony surround sound systems. I think I paid $20 a piece back a few years ago. For what they are and how much they cost I am happy.

I think in a commercial environment they are great. They are loud, clear, and very helpful in getting sound to different areas to combat washer and dryer noise. I wouldn't hesistate to use them in a basement drop ceiling for added surround sound capabilities.

 

[thewatusi]

X3 on the monoprice speakers. I have a few pairs and they're fantastic for the price. 16awg wire is fine so long as you dont have runs hundreds of feet long

 

[Modern Jess]

I have installed in-ceiling speakers, albeit in the kitchen, not the shop. If you have an attic above, you will most likely need to build a box around the back of the speakers to get any bass from them. Some in-ceiling speakers don't need this (and have their own enclosure) but most speakers need an enclosure behind them.

You also should probably run speaker wire rated for in-wall / in-ceiling use -- it's different than ordinary speaker wire, and has an additional jacket (kind of like romex).

I tend to like Polk speakers -- good quality at a good price.

 

[jeffmoss26]

Another good source is Parts Express.

 

[BSAschields]

Good tips everyone Thanks. I'll keep an eye on this thread for more suggestions until I pull the trigger on this in the next few weeks.

 

[thewatusi]

You also should probably run speaker wire rated for in-wall / in-ceiling use -- it's different than ordinary speaker wire, and has an additional jacket (kind of like romex).

Yes, CL2 rated wire.

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023903&p_id=2824&seq=1&format=2

 

[Kaizen]

I'd suggest running the wire to corners to put speakers. nice clean look no wires but you'll get far more bang for your buck with the bose that were mentioned. I just got a set from best buy for 99 bucks polk I think that are great put them in my kitchen up on some beams.
I put some speakers in a bead board ceiling a few years back and one went bad and now I have to cut the hole bigger and of course its too close to a beam so I just have left it alone

 

[Jackfre]

I put in some Sonance 8" ceiling speakers in the kitchen and LR. Pricey, but the sound is excellent.

 

[RCman]

My garage is 30'x36' with 14'6" ceilings. I'm no audiophile by any means but I have a pair of 6.5" speakers in the ceiling. Spaced about 1/3 the way off the side walls and in the middle of the 30'. In the shop 14'x24' with 8' ceilings I used a pair of older Infinity car speakers. Laugh but they were free and sounds pretty good. I do have insulation on top of all the speakers so that they don't echo the bass all over. I did use 12awg wire because the runs to the garage speakers from the shop are over 90' and that is what was recommended to me from a friend that installs audio equipment for a living (he laughs at my 2 speakers).

Sounds pretty good to me. It is generally just background noise and I don't play it to loud and can't hear anything over the power tools anyway.

These speakers in the garage: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/insigni...hite/8235224.p?id=1168043626829&skuId=8235224
This wire: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=2818&seq=1&format=2

 

[vertguy]

I pre-wired and installed 2-8 inch round speakers in both garages (forgot the brand) that are kind of centered and both sets are tied into the single digital controller/amp. Fairly sure I went with in-wall 12-gauge Monster wire as I remember having challenges getting both sets fed into the single controller and larger diameter wire required a pigtail to fit. I also had to build enclosures for all my ceiling speakers (think the inspector flagged them), which not only helped with the sound, but with blown in insulation, was needed.

Sound seems more than adequate considering they are only driven off the small 60w controller amp.

 

[nolimits76]

I've had limited experiences w/ in-wall type speakers. The ones I've dealt with I was less than impressed. Others seem to love them. My complaint was they sounded tinny and more high pitched w/o enough lows -- could be my ears as I'm sensitive to high pitched noises.

Anyhow, I plan on using Infinity bookshelf units. Replaced my home theater system a few years back and these are just collecting dust. The price is right and they sound good.

In regards to wire, I agree w/ the Monoprice 12 gauge linked above. I used that to make some custom wires for my new home theater system and it's quality. I don't get the point of skimping on the right sized wire for your application -- it's a small expense that you likely won't do for many, many years if ever again.

 

[OJ Bartley]

I would definitely get the in-wall rated speaker wire (CL2). 14 gauge should be fine for a pair of basic in-ceiling speakers.

Are in-walls an option? That would eliminate the issues bad_idea had with the sound bouncing off the floor.

You can spend as much as you want on in-ceiling/wall speakers, but I think the law of diminishing returns kicks in pretty early, especially in a garage where you're far from an ideal listening environment. I'd go Monoprice and see how you like it. Moving up to anything that would be much better will cost you probably 2-3 times what you spend on them, and probably won't get you a huge difference.

Do build rear enclosures for them, and they'll have a little more punch. And they will keep the insulation from settling on the cones and messing up your sound.

I think that a properly designed bookshelf will likely sound better, so if you have a pair kicking around, and a place on the wall to mount them I'd consider that too, but if you really like the idea of the clean install and aren't doing any critical listening you'll probably be happy with some basic in-wall/celing speakers.

 

[Troutsqueezer]

If it were me, I'd limit the frequency response of the ceiling speakers and use a floor-standing subwoofer. That way, you aren't likely to get any vibrating coming from the ceiling support structures.

 

[Criss]

I like speakercraft and velodyne.Velodyne make some very nice in wall subs. Speakcraft AIM series will rock your garage.

 

[jgorm]

I put some bad *** Yamaha speakers I'm the ceiling of my shower. I was amazed with the bass response. I need to do the same at my new house.

 

[mjweimer]

+1 for Parts Express.

I used the CS620EC model primarily because they had a sealed enclosure that prevented my blown in cellulose from migrating into the speaker.

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-cs620ec-6-1-2-2-way-enclosed-ceiling-speaker--300-417

For driving all 8 speakers I used an old receiver I had laying around and added a speaker selector switch to keep impedance reasonable.

http://www.parts-express.com/wired-home-ss8-speaker-selector-impedance-matching-1-in-8-out--300-974

For the wiring I went with some Belden CL-2 rated in-wall 14 ga. cable. Stapled it every other truss and left a loop at each location to facilitate installation.

I also used a ~$100 (on sale) Polk Audio 10" powered sub for a little added bass.

I've attached a couple of pictures: one of an installed speaker and one of my temporary connection to the receiver for testing that shows how small the selector switch is in comparison.

Overall I have been very pleased with the results.

MJ

 

[BSAschields]

I ordered the monoprice 14 gage CL2 wire and a pair of 6.5 inch speakers plus sealed enclosures to keep the cellulose out of the speakers . I will run one set of wires to the speakers in the ceiling and another set of wires to the outside for future use if I put outdoor speakers. (thats for a deck project that got put on hold for the time being) The Bose outdoor speakers are pretty nice but I need to save my money for insulation on the current project.

 

[Geek]

In ceiling speakers sound like ****.
I highly recommend the Infinity IRS series
*tic*

(this is Paul McGowan's setup here in Boulder, Co)

Yeah.. they cost more than a Lamborghini

 

[LWW]

Haha! In house speakers are a completely different story. Klipsch Palladium's all the way!

Here's my old H&K AV receiver with Polk 10" powered sub I picked up off CL basically for free, garage mini-computer and an old hand-me-down 22" LCD monitor. Still need to dress the cables...

 

[mmelton005]

+1 for Parts Express.

I used the CS620EC model primarily because they had a sealed enclosure that prevented my blown in cellulose from migrating into the speaker.

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-cs620ec-6-1-2-2-way-enclosed-ceiling-speaker--300-417

For driving all 8 speakers I used an old receiver I had laying around and added a speaker selector switch to keep impedance reasonable.

http://www.parts-express.com/wired-home-ss8-speaker-selector-impedance-matching-1-in-8-out--300-974

For the wiring I went with some Belden CL-2 rated in-wall 14 ga. cable. Stapled it every other truss and left a loop at each location to facilitate installation.

I also used a ~$100 (on sale) Polk Audio 10" powered sub for a little added bass.

I've attached a couple of pictures: one of an installed speaker and one of my temporary connection to the receiver for testing that shows how small the selector switch is in comparison.

Overall I have been very pleased with the results.

MJ

What kind of amp is that? My ex-father in law had one of those and loved it. I just can't figure out what the specs or model number is on it...care to share?

 

[pauleyman]

I use proficient brand in my living room (speaakercrafts installer brand so im told) im no audiophile but im quite happy with them. Friends are envious when watching movies. Its pricey though. 5.1 with a sub was about 1400.

 

[Beemer533]

As mentioned, parts express and monoprice are great sources for this stuff. For my whole home audio, I used Dayton Audio CS620C 6.5" speakers.

You can obviously spend a lot more, but I think these sound very good for the price.

12awg is crazy for this type of install unless you have mile long runs from the amp. 16awg is what I would typically use. For in in ceiling speakers you don't need a ton of power.

I actually used Cat5e (twisted 2pr together for + and 2pr for -) for several of mine as I have tons of the stuff for free. I would dare anyone to tell the difference between the speakers that use cat5 and the ones wired with 16awg..

The only place I used 12awg in my system is for my IB sub that is powered by a 2500 Watt Mackie amp. All my other surround speakers use 14awg.

 

[Modern Jess]

In ceiling speakers sound like ****.
I highly recommend the Infinity IRS series
*tic*

And when you die, they can bury you in one!

 

[chops101]

I have whole house audio and used Yamahas in-ceiling 3-ways from Amazon.
They look great (read-not blatantly noticeable) and sound great for the price.

 

[JoniH]

What kind of amp is that? My ex-father in law had one of those and loved it. I just can't figure out what the specs or model number is on it...care to share?

Looks like the Yamaha RX-V496.

http://www.hifidatabase.com/Detailed/Yamaha_RX-V496_3737.php

 

[mmelton005]

thanks Joni. I've been in the market for a good receiver for my sound set up. If I want to use my computer as my sound source, I still have to use a receiver to amplify the speakers correct?

 

[JoniH]

No problem, glad i could help. Yes, you need a separate amplifier for that, the signal from the soundcard is that low ,maybe 2 W. It works with your headphones but not with separate speakers. Just connect the amp with rca-cables and that's it. Or you could get something like these, if you don't need to annoy the neighbours..

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000AM6QHE/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I have that Z4-system plugged in my computer, i didn't expect much from them, but they actually sound pretty good.

 

[mmelton005]

No problem, glad i could help. Yes, you need a separate amplifier for that, the signal from the soundcard is that low ,maybe 2 W. It works with your headphones but not with separate speakers. Just connect the amp with rca-cables and that's it. Or you could get something like these, if you don't need to annoy the neighbours..

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000AM6QHE/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I have that Z4-system plugged in my computer, i didn't expect much from them, but they actually sound pretty good.

So I just use a aux cord ( i think they are 3.5mm) from the phone jack on my computer to the aux input on the amplifier? Where do the rcas connect to and from? Sorry for all the questions I may be able to answer my own questions once i get the equipment. Oh that's something I don't have to worry about. I'm single, no kids and the closest neighbor is about 500 yards away. Gotta love west ky

 

[JoniH]

Yes, you need a cable like this, 3.5 jack to rca plugs

http://www.conrad.com/medias/global/ce/9000_9999/9800/9860/9866/986678_BB_00_FB.EPS_1000.jpg

You can use the headphone port or there might be also a separate port for speakers, depends on the soundcard. 3.5mm plug there and rca plugs connected to aux, cd, dvd or some other line in-connection in the amplifier. Just don't use the phono lines in the amp, that's for the record player and might not work that well.

 

[cajunfirehawk]

+ whatever for monoprice and parts express, I used monoprice for in ceiling surround and center channel speakers and they work great, heavy in wall wiring too, ymmv.

 

[BSAschields]

I got my mono price stuff today but I was expecting to be able to mount the box to the rafters before I put up the ceiling and insulate it. But the box just seems to attach to the speaker itself. Not really a problem except for the insulation part. I want to blow in cellulose . I guess I can just dig it back out after the ceiling is finished.....