In floor heat power sourcd

[fickster03]

I'm in process of planning on my shop and I am a big time lurker n stalker on this amazing forum.
For those that have in floor heat. How did you get your source of heat?
Propane/natural gas electric or wood??
What was the verdict n results also am intrested in the brands makes etc. I am open to all ideas n advice

from central Missouri. cattle man live like there's no tomorrow.

 

[73RR]

Choose the heat source on how much you want to be involved (wood) or how low the energy costs are (gas vs elec vs oil).
For an honest comparison you will need to look at the cost per BTU of oil, natural, propane and electric and then compare the cost and pay back for the furnace. Calculating the wood is difficult so I'd say consider it if the wood is free since a wood fired boiler can be expensive.

Propane has 91,300 BTU per gallon
#2 fuel oil has 138,874 BTU per gallon
Natural gas has 1,032 BTU per cubic foot
Electricity has 3,412 BTU per kilowatt

Now you need to convert them into 'like' units so you can actually compare them and then you need to know what your local unit costs are for each.
You will also need to know what the heating unit will consume so you can compare dollars.

I hope you like math.

 

[fickster03]

I don't mind math at all if I have the correct formula. I know natural gas is out unless it's hauled in and same as goes for propane. Propane prices has gone up n down like crazy for my area makin it very sketchy. I had wood with electric back up in my mind due to me having out in the way out in the country no permit zoning etc. I do agree a good wood boiler is very expensive especially my sq foot size I'm planning on my living quaters building and the shop building will be a separate units

Dixon Missouri. welder/rancher/heavy equipment

 

[Firebrick43]

Summer fill propane if you own the tank has always been reasonable. Wood boilers are nice if you have several buildings but you become a slave to the beast, in the neighborhood of 18-24 cords a year. All my friends that have them are always behind and therefore burning wet wood making things worse.

Electricity will be higher in nearly everywhere in the US where hydro isn't the choice of generating electricity.

 

[73RR]

Understood. I also live in an area w/o NG so I use propane for most heating but also have plenty of electric stuff to contend with. In my area we have plenty cheap elec rates but big demand stuff like a big boiler did not pencil out for me. Small water heaters and such are ok since the install was easier than a propane heater. Around here propane prices swing crazy during the year so I buy propane in July/August when demand is low and so is the price. Last Summer propane dropped to $1.30/gal. I have two 500 gallon tanks and only fill them when they get too low to get through a Winter.
With large volumes there isn't a delivery fee even with the low gallon price.

 

[svtride]

1500 ft^2 shop with natural gas heat source

 

[ltusler]

See if your utility has a off peak program. Ours lowers the cost to about .06 per KWH in turn for them to be able to "manage" the use during high demand periods.

 

[ard]

how would you possibly do in floor wood heat?? Seems like a lot of tending ...

IMO the question cannot be solely based on fuel cost....

Will you be heating the sturcture 24x7? Or do you want to keep it above freezing, then bump it up for 3,4, 8 hrs of work? Do you also need hot water in the shop?

Id go with propane, big tanks. In floor with a 99+% efficiency water heater/furnace or just a forced air propane heater. IMO flor heat is much more refined but much more expensive, plus from what I understand you dont jsut warm it up for 2 hrs in the shop. (You'll be finishing up when it gets up to temp!)

 

[73RR]

I understand the OP to be using a boiler of some sort to feed the floor heat. The question was what kind of heat for the boiler.
There are some vey nice wood fueled boilers but they are spendy and require a lot of attention.

 

[aaronmn]

I have wood in floor and forced air in my home. 2,800 feet of livable space, well insulated. Attached garage heated around 38 through the winter. House kept at 72.

The wood boiler is a Heatmor 400 outdoor wood boiler. This is my sole source of heat. I live in a cold climate. I only fill the boiler once per day. 15 cords of wood each year heating 7.5 months of the year.

Would be happy to answer any questions you may have.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[fickster03]

Very good tip n talk. My shop plan is 60x80x16 on a 36 inch footing wall. And the house will be 30x35. I want shop heated all.the time to keep the and tractors warm. It's crazy how much electric they take up being plugged in. I do alot of big projects such as truck beds like feed mixers or flatbeds and stuff like that. Wood boilers are insane expensive now because of the so called "emissions " and was wanting to hear feed back from you guys. I will do checking on propane. I had forgotten bout the off peak n summer buying. That is an excellent reminder n idea. Thanks you

Dixon Missouri. welder/rancher/heavy equipment

 

[Shop Specialties]

Very good tip n talk. My shop plan is 60x80x16 on a 36 inch footing wall. And the house will be 30x35. I want shop heated all.the time to keep the and tractors warm. It's crazy how much electric they take up being plugged in. I do alot of big projects such as truck beds like feed mixers or flatbeds and stuff like that. Wood boilers are insane expensive now because of the so called "emissions " and was wanting to hear feed back from you guys. I will do checking on propane. I had forgotten bout the off peak n summer buying. That is an excellent reminder n idea. Thanks you

Dixon Missouri. welder/rancher/heavy equipment

Do you generate much waste oil ? Waste oil boilers are not cheap but if you generate a substantial amount of oil they become cheap very quickly.

 

[fickster03]

Do you generate much waste oil ? Waste oil boilers are not cheap but if you generate a substantial amount of oil they become cheap very quickly.

I have a 1000 gal tank that's bout full but everyone dumps gas diesel god know what else however we sell.it n I don't consume enuff oil.to last me a winter in a year. I've thought about it but gonna have to pass on it. Great idea through

Dixon Missouri. welder/rancher/heavy equipment

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

Ground source heat pumps with radiant heat, duct work for cooling the house with DHW. Proper insulation is the key to comfort and economy of installation and operation. If your local utility has an all electric program or off-peak the tax incentives are still there and the size of the house and shop could justify the investment.

My 40x60 pole is well insulated and I heat office, shop and garage with propane/electric boilers and double head hyper heat air-to-air for heating the shoulder months and cooling all summer in the office and shop. The garage has a de-humidifier since in never gets hot enough to de-humidify using the cooling only.

You really have to start with a proper Manual "J' heat load and consider the cost of the fuel and the appliances once you know the loads.

 

[theoldwizard1]

In general, if you have access to the wood and do not mind cutting, splitting, stacking and feed the boiler. Wood is almost always the cheapest source of heat. My Dad would buy a 40' trailer load of 100" green logs typically <14". He would have then delivered in the spring and they spent all summer drying. He cut and split them in the fall/early winter. Still very cheap.

Ground source heat pumps with radiant heat, duct work for cooling the house with DHW. Proper insulation is the key to comfort and economy of installation and operation. If your local utility has an all electric program or off-peak the tax incentives are still there and the size of the house and shop could justify the investment.

Interesting combination ! Not many manufactures of ground source heat pumps for radiant heat. Not that it is that difficult to do, just not a common combination. Operational costs are much better than electric resistance radiant heat.

Water Furnace and a few other have really soured a lot of customers by doing ground loop heat exchange that are either not large enough or deep enough, resulting is low return water temperatures (<50F).

Very few utilities have off-peak rates these days.

 

[theoldwizard1]

How did I miss the second paragraph !

My 40x60 pole is well insulated and I heat office, shop and garage with propane/electric boilers and double head hyper heat air-to-air for heating the shoulder months and cooling all summer in the office and shop.

PLEASE take some pictures of this UNIQUE combination of heat sources !

"... hyper heat air-to-air for heating the shoulder months and cooling all summer ..." Very cost effective !!

I keep hoping you will hook that hyper heat pump up to a refrigerant-to-water heat exchanger and bypass your propane/electric boiler !!

 

[86turbodsl]

GSHP with radiant is what my house is. Very similar to Badger's barn setup. I like it. Warm floors when it's cold is the bomb.

You better know your ground loop contractor is on top of the calcs! Our ground loop is 4 tons and the pump is 3 tons. And i would have preferred it was bigger!!!

 

[nh_yota]

Two additional things to think about:

1. In-floor radiant heating is designed to be kept at a constant temperature, like heating a swimming pool. It's not like a shop heater that you can turn up or down when you enter or leave the shop. In addition, good insulation is very important to help retain the heat given off from the floor.
2. Wood boilers are great and everything, but who's going to feed it when you're on vacation? Backup heat is a must if you live in a cold climate where lack of heat can cause frozen pipes.

 

[nh_yota]

Oh and a third:

3. Ground source heat pumps can be very efficient and the technology has been around for a while, but not every HVAC guy knows how to work on it, and if it breaks down you should have backup heat to keep the place warm until replacement parts arrive.

 

[fickster03]

Two additional things to think about:

1. In-floor radiant heating is designed to be kept at a constant temperature, like heating a swimming pool. It's not like a shop heater that you can turn up or down when you enter or leave the shop. In addition, good insulation is very important to help retain the heat given off from the floor.
2. Wood boilers are great and everything, but who's going to feed it when you're on vacation? Backup heat is a must if you live in a cold climate where lack of heat can cause frozen pipes.

On the question #1 that's the goal. I want to set it at 70 degrees n leave it alone. I want the heat in it at night for thr trucks n tractors we will put in to keep warm n avoid plugging 3 to 4 tractors n up to 3 trucks also

Question #2. Everyone I know very well in a 60 Mile radius fron me that has an out door wood boiler swears by centeal boiler n they have a boiler that's woos with propane/natural gas/oil fuel as a back up also known as dual fuel n the other thing is no matter what hence it's a farm there will be someone around everyday because animals has to be fed n watered etc everyday

Dixon Missouri. welder/rancher/heavy equipment

 

[mcirish101]

I have a 40 x 60 x 16 building that is a part time place. I have in floor heating using a Navien boiler and set-up for two zones (apt & shop) The apt is 550 sf and the shop is 1900. Spray foam insulation 2+ inches thick on all walls and cellulose on the ceiling to R38. temps are controlled using 2 nest thermostats.

Last winter was my first using the system - I have no complaints and feel it was a really good investment - while I don't have exact numbers, I know I used less propane to heat 2400 sf than my 1300 sf trailer next door with a forced air system and not nearly the same insulation factors.