Induction Heater for broken bolt???

[WesternReach]

Hi
Thoughts on using an induction heater to remove a snapped starter bolt sticking out of the bell housing. Tried the vise grip/penetrating oil method as well as the double nut method to no avail.

Torch is not an option due to safety concerns, kinda oily underneath and this is being done on the ground as well.

Also I won’t be able to get the induction machine to be straight (parallel)on the stud itself, its a tight area, so can these be used on an angle/perpendicular?

A bit hesitant to use one, just wondering what your experiences are with these.

And what brands/types are advisable.

See pics for what I’m dealing with.

Thanks in advance

 

[zendriver]

I have a hot rod “brand” and I would’ve put it on there if I thought it was gonna snap

The head just wire so you can bend it any angle you want

 

[Alcap]

I bought a 1000 W one for a Y pipe / converter job I was doing , like you I was afraid of getting the torch in that location. Like zendriver said the coils are somewhat flexible in fact the kit I bought had 2 heating elements sort of “ universal “ I worked fine ,used it many times since for rusty bolts nuts ect. Also came in handy for heating a 1/2” rod I wanted to bend . I can’t recommend any particular brand but I think a 1500W one would be better

 

[mikedodge]

Is that a 4.6/5.4? LOL the only starter bolt I've ever had break.

 

[Duker]

Hi
Thoughts on using an induction heater to remove a snapped starter bolt sticking out of the bell housing. Tried the vise grip/penetrating oil method as well as the double nut method to no avail.

Torch is not an option due to safety concerns, kinda oily underneath and this is being done on the ground as well.

Also I won’t be able to get the induction machine to be straight (parallel)on the stud itself, its a tight area, so can these be used on an angle/perpendicular?

A bit hesitant to use one, just wondering what your experiences are with these.

And what brands/types are advisable.

See pics for what I’m dealing with.

Thanks in advance

That's a perfect use of an induction heater as you can keep the heat concentrated on the bolt. I have a 15Kw one that I use for blacksmithing that I added a wand to do be able to use on my trucks exhaust bolts. You can also bend the coils (or make/use custom coils https://cluaranforge.com/collections/all) to help make access easier as long as they don't touch each other.

 

[WesternReach]

Is that a 4.6/5.4? LOL the only starter bolt I've ever had break.

Yeah, 4.6 what a pita, lol

 

[WesternReach]

That's a perfect use of an induction heater as you can keep the heat concentrated on the bolt. I have a 15Kw one that I use for blacksmithing that I added a wand to do be able to use on my trucks exhaust bolts. You can also bend the coils (or make/use custom coils https://cluaranforge.com/collections/all) to help make access easier as long as they don't touch each other.

What happens if they touch each other?

 

[WesternReach]

If I use the induction heater, and the stud gets red hot, would a vise grip be the best way to remove it? I don’t want to end up snapping it off inside the bell housing.

 

[pfbz]

Bolt induction heater is one of the few tools I don't have that I've thought might come in handy.

Other than the obvious COO and possible longevity, how much difference is there between a $150 chinesium version and a $600 mini-ductor original?

 

[Duker]

What happens if they touch each other?

It can potentially arc but more importantly it can affect efficiency of the coil. Most coils for a 15Kw induction heater are usually only three or four wraps. On my wand I have two wraps (complete coils) as it seemed to be the best compromise of size and efficiency with about a 4 foot lead. I am not sure what they are for a regular hand held induction heater but I suspect they would be around three wraps as well.

 

[zendriver]

Bolt induction heater is one of the few tools I don't have that I've thought might come in handy.

Other than the obvious COO and possible longevity, how much difference is there between a $150 chinesium version and a $600 mini-ductor original?

$450?

 

[Duker]

If I use the induction heater, and the stud gets red hot, would a vise grip be the best way to remove it? I don’t want to end up snapping it off inside the bell housing.

I had some really frozen bolts on my F250 exhaust and between heat and then hitting with a hammer once the color went out of the bolt I could get them off with an impact. Just be sure that the metal has lost some heat/color before using the vice grips as the metal will probably lose its temper so could be softer and more likely to break off.

 

[zendriver]

If I use the induction heater, and the stud gets red hot, would a vise grip be the best way to remove it? I don’t want to end up snapping it off inside the bell housing.

I use a small hf cut off tool to cut flat spots and I get either adjustable wrenchor at least a better grip with vice grips

You may or may not have that amount of room to work in the vice grips might be your only choice

You likely don’t even have to get the bolt red hot I never
Get them that hot, at least not yet

 

[WesternReach]

It can potentially arc but more importantly it can affect efficiency of the coil. Most coils for a 15Kw induction heater are usually only three or four wraps. On my wand I have two wraps (complete coils) as it seemed to be the best compromise of size and efficiency with about a 4 foot lead. I am not sure what they are for a regular hand held induction heater but I suspect they would be around three wraps as well.

Thank you for the clarification

 

[WesternReach]

I use a small hf cut off tool to cut flat spots and I get either adjustable wrenchor at least a better grip with vice grips

You may or may not have that amount of room to work in the vice grips might be your only choice

You likely don’t even have to get the bolt red hot I never
Get them that hot, at least not yet

Thank you for the reply

 

[WesternReach]

I use a small hf cut off tool to cut flat spots and I get either adjustable wrenchor at least a better grip with vice grips

You may or may not have that amount of room to work in the vice grips might be your only choice

You likely don’t even have to get the bolt red hot I never
Get them that hot, at least not yet

Yeah it’s tight, so vise grips are the only way to go.

 

[WesternReach]

Would something like this work:

1) in lieu of using the induction heater.

Or

2) after the induction heater?

 

[zendriver]

Would something like this work:

1) in lieu of using the induction heater.

Or

2) after the induction heater?

#2 gets my vote as a perfect combo

The bolt was stuck, not rusty so just using that tool alone on it you’re gonna be at the same fight

Imo spending $150 or $600 for an induction bolt heater could be worth every penny you paid for it

 

[Callelle]

I can't see any reason not to use a torch. Being a little oily around it isn't going to immediately burst into flames, I soak things in PB/Thrust for days and then hit it with a torch right off the bat. Better yet, weld a nut to it.

 

[NHtoolguy]

I can't see any reason not to use a torch. Being a little oily around it isn't going to immediately burst into flames, I soak things in PB/Thrust for days and then hit it with a torch right off the bat. Better yet, weld a nut to it.

I, too, would use a torch for this situation. Shield the surrounding areas with sheet metal or ceramic wool. Direct a propane flame on the aluminum where the bolt is threaded into the bell housing. Remove the flame and grab the broken bolt with vice grips and apply torque in both directions until the broken piece breaks loose. It may take multiple heat cycles. Be patient. You have plenty of protruding threads to grab. Sometimes light tapping on the vice grips can help also.

A propane or MAPP gas torch is not hot enough to melt the aluminum, but will cause thermal expansion of the metal surrounding the bolt to help loosen it. In my experience, no extractor can apply more torque than the original bolt head, and will only make things worse. Heat is your friend!

 

[American Locomotive]

You really want to heat the aluminum - not really the bolt. The aluminum will expand more, and you will want the bolt to be as strong (cool) as possible for removal.

Torch is not an option due to safety concerns, kinda oily underneath and this is being done on the ground as well.

I understand your trepidation, but I promise you it's really not a problem. There's a catalytic converter right next to that area that will get up to 1,200°F+. Any oil on the bellhousing will just smoke and sizzle. Make sure your torch isn't pointing towards any fuel lines or wires, and you're good to go.

A few minutes with a standard torch blasting the aluminum and a fresh pair of vise-grips with sharp teeth clamped right on the threads will take that right out.

 

[JradM]

Would something like this work:

1) in lieu of using the induction heater.

Given how much you have to work with, I would try it before I sprung for an induction heater. If I could get a pair of vise grips on there, I would probably start by just clamping them as firmly as I could, then tapping them back and forth with a hammer - the impact action is the key.

I've also had good luck using bolt removal sockets with an impact gun - but start out gentle or you'll just twist off the remaining stub. Going back and forth helps a ton. It looks like the straight-wall removal sockets you posted would be helpful for that.

That said, if you're not careful and patient, you might curse me and wish you'd just started out with the induction heater. Your skills and budget are key considerations. If you decide to try it, start out so gentle that you're not sure you're actually doing something.

 

[zendriver]

I’d worry about cracking the aluminum fell housing or damaging the threads, using a torch, but if that is all I had, I’d give it a go

At least on the starter side, the bolt look good so if the head snapped off from turning force, it seems doubtful you’re gonna grab it with anything and work it loose

An induction pool heater should work just fine on that put it on the threaded side it doesn’t look like it at first but threads have a lot of surface area. It’s just stuck from galling overtime. And maybe some galvanic corrosion.

Just likely needs heated up enough to break the surface tension

Imo it’s not going to budge at all without at least some kind of heat

 

[Sumboodie]

That's a perfect use of an induction heater as you can keep the heat concentrated on the bolt. I have a 15Kw one that I use for blacksmithing that I added a wand to do be able to use on my trucks exhaust bolts. You can also bend the coils (or make/use custom coils https://cluaranforge.com/collections/all) to help make access easier as long as they don't touch each other.

15kw.. dang! Heat that bolt to lava in 3 seconds!

 

[rust in the eye]

Looking at your photo I'm inclined to think this bolt broke because it was cross threaded not from rust.
An induction heater might help but I suspect you'll be drilling before the day is through. Hope I'm wrong. Good luck

 

[rustyzman]

You can make your own inductor ends from heavy copper wire. I have done that. You can also make open sided ones if access is an issue. It won't get you to OA heat, but you can get to 1200-1500-ish degrees if everything is right.

I did some experimenting with a cheap chinese one for a heat treatment experiment and it functioned well, but could not quite achieve the temp I needed. Its still in use in the maintenance department now working fine.

 

[mikedodge]

Looking at your photo I'm inclined to think this bolt broke because it was cross threaded not from rust.
An induction heater might help but I suspect you'll be drilling before the day is through. Hope I'm wrong. Good luck

I don't see that from the pic at all?

It's a normal thing to happen on those engines, I think it's from the wrong grade of bolt or not being big enough because there's not a lot of force involved it just snaps.

 

[zendriver]

You can make your own inductor ends from heavy copper wire. I have done that. You can also make open sided ones if access is an issue. It won't get you to OA heat, but you can get to 1200-1500-ish degrees if everything is right.

I did some experimenting with a cheap chinese one for a heat treatment experiment and it functioned well, but could not quite achieve the temp I needed. Its still in use in the maintenance department now working fine.

Uninsulated copper wire carrying electrical current in close proximity to conductive metals?

 

[rust in the eye]

I don't see that from the pic at all?

It's a normal thing to happen on those engines, I think it's from the wrong grade of bolt or not being big enough because there's not a lot of force involved it just snaps.

I didn't see any corossion, perhaps unseen galvanic.
No resolution from the OP.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Uninsulated copper wire carrying electrical current in close proximity to conductive metals?

That's what the inductive heater coils turn into. Insulation melts/burns off and you'll have exposed copper. I have a few which are 75% exposed copper on the coil tip. I would agree insulation makes them safer, although there's probably a breaker/fuse in the tool, and it's plugged into the wall on a breaker. Insulation is probably more important between the tool and coil itself, once the coil section/business end is working it's not uncommon to have open copper touch the work piece.

 

[zendriver]

That's what the inductive heater coils turn into. Insulation melts/burns off and you'll have exposed copper. I have a few which are 75% exposed copper on the coil tip. I would agree insulation makes them safer, although there's probably a breaker/fuse in the tool, and it's plugged into the wall on a breaker. Insulation is probably more important between the tool and coil itself, once the coil section/business end is working it's not uncommon to have open copper touch the work piece.

Probably, just seems like a good idea to work safe from the get go, so maybe why they all use insulated wire.

Do not use any heating coil if insulation has been breached. If insulation has been breached it will cause sparking when contacting with a vehicle. This will be a fire hazard especially when working on or near gas lines and/or gas tanks.

This is from the Mini ductor user manual.

No experience myself, since my coils are fairly new.

 

[rustyzman]

Probably, just seems like a good idea to work safe from the get go, so maybe why they all use insulated wire.


This is from the Mini ductor user manual.

No experience myself, since my coils are fairly new.

If you wish you can buy high temp insulation for the shop made coils. In practice in industrial settings, the coils are uninsulated copper. it doesn't take much care to use it without shorting it on anything. Your mileage may vary, but I've not had any issue with moderate care.

 

[zendriver]

If you wish you can buy high temp insulation for the shop made coils. In practice in industrial settings, the coils are uninsulated copper. it doesn't take much care to use it without shorting it on anything. Your mileage may vary, but I've not had any issue with moderate care.

IMO, controlled Induction heat-treating metal rod - in a factory and laying on your back, under a vehicle to get to some rusty-*** bolt - two different animals.

if you have not had any issues, maybe you never will.

Just figured ready made coils are completely insulated for a reason , maybe one of safety.

 

[plinker]

A mini ductor would work fine along with a bolt out, But I'd be more inclined to weld a nut to it and and go that route. That'll heat it and give something solid to put a socket on. This assumes welding is an option.

For induction heaters, I've used Mini ductor and currently have a Bolt buster (was on sale). Slight preference to the Bolt buster, no particular reason why.