Industrial Air 80 gallon 3 phase Experience?

[BlackKnight427]

Any of you guys have any personal experience with this air compressor?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/203623...&productId=203623839&R=203623839#.UdjZbxadvuM

Im looking for any feed back on reliability and sound levels also if anyone has used it with a hvlp spray gun I would really like to hear any input on that.

I recently made the decision to move into a duplex that is owned by my father since he just had two 22x24 garages built in the back and the lower rent will make paying for college a lot easier for me. I was a professional mechanic for over 5 years before being laid off and deciding to go back to school. With that having been said I always have something going on with either a family's car or a friends car or side jobs and projects so I defiantly will get my use out of a compressor like this.

I was really drawn to it for the low amperage draw at 13 where most other compressors I have looked at are around the 22-24 range.

I also really liked the advertised 17CFMs at 100psi since I do spray things from time to time and the requirement for my spray guns is something like 15.2 CFM at 29psi and most other compressors (at least the ones I have looked at) usually fall just short of the 15.2CFM requirements

Im not really thrilled about the price on this particular compressor but hey you gotta pay to play. My original price range was 1000-1200 than I decided to bump it up to 1500 and now I find myself around the 1700 price range I really do not want to go any higher on the price range but I also don't want something that wont get the job done.

Im not dead set on this compressor and Im not brand loyal so if you guys have any different recommendations for me I would love to hear them.

 

[930dreamer]

I'm surprised Home Depot sells a three phase compressor.

 

[Coopduc]

If you can live with 60 gallon tank, here is an 18 Cfm unit for only $1000
http://m.northerntool.com/mt/www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_211720_211720

 

[zkling]

I'm surprised Home Depot sells a three phase compressor.

^ X2 news to me. I can't imagine many industrial places saying... We need a new air compressor. Lets go to The Home Depot

 

[Ad13]

Try looking for a used one in decent condition, can probably get one better for half the price.

 

[BlackKnight427]

I'm surprised Home Depot sells a three phase compressor.

Yeah I know i was surprised as well. They have quite a few different ones online and the one I listed up top is actually cheaper than on most other websites I have seen it on. Who would of thought.

 

[BlackKnight427]

Try looking for a used one in decent condition, can probably get one better for half the price.

Ive really thought about going this route but I was an automotive mechanic and don't know much about air compressors incase something went wrong. Im sure I could figure it out and handle any possible hiccup but I don't really want the headache of it in case something did occur.

 

[BlackKnight427]

If you can live with 60 gallon tank, here is an 18 Cfm unit for only $1000
http://m.northerntool.com/mt/www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_211720_211720

Thats a good find. Thanks.

Im not sure if 60 gallons would be enough or not to be honest.

Im not to thrilled about the 22-23 amp draw but its not a deal breaker I could probably make that work.

Ive beed lucky and am used to working with multiple 120+ gallon compressors out of shops. Just regular power tools Im sure it would be plenty but idk about running a spray gun since even a small drop in air pressure can have drastic affects on a paint job.

Im guessing even an 80 gallon would probably be cutting it close but I think I could time it by spraying a panel at a time and then letting the compressor catch up before continuing onto the next one.

Anyone ever try spraying a car with a 60 gallon compressor or an 80?

 

[Curmudgeon]

Im guessing even an 80 gallon would probably be cutting it close but I think I could time it by spraying a panel at a time and then letting the compressor catch up before continuing onto the next one.

Anyone ever try spraying a car with a 60 gallon compressor or an 80?

It doesn't matter what size the tank is. What matters is how much air the compressor delivers. If you're consuming 15 cfm and your compressor is delivering 18 cfm, you will never run out of air, regardless of tank size. If your compressor is delivering only 10 cfm, you will be constantly stopping and waiting for your compressor to catch up and it will never shut off, even with a huge tank. A large tank does not compensate for lack of air production.

If the Industrial Air delivers 17 cfm at 100 psi, it will probably give you well over 20 cfm at the 29psi your sprayer needs. If you're buying it primarily for your hvlp sprayer, it's extreme overkill.

The only advantage to a larger tank is that when you're using less air than the compressor delivers, it will start and stop less frequently. That and some guys seem to think it compensates for having a small tool.

Comparing the $1000 IR to the Industrial Air is like comparing a bicycle to a Harley Davidson. They are not even close to being comparable.

A very important question is do you have 3-phase electric available in the garage you're going to be using? That would be very rare in a residential area. You can't just plug it into a residential 230V circuit.

 

[Stuart in MN]

A very important question is do you have 3-phase electric available in the garage you're going to be using? That would be very rare in a residential area. You can't just plug it into a residential 230V circuit.

This is the first thing you need to determine - as mentioned most residences have single phase power.

 

[Trash Mech]

Also, 3 phase compressors will be listed with different amperage draw depending on what voltage. If you have 208/230 it will be double the 460/480 amps. A 6hp or 10hp amp draw is pretty consistent with same voltage so I can't see that varying from brand to brand with similar size motors. Plus if you're looking at nameplate amps that is not what the constant draw on the motor is, it's usually 1/3 of that under normal load and maybe double on start up. That being said, look at cfm like someone else mentioned rather than amp draw.

 

[ssentt]

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/202053...H=REC-_-product-3-_-203623839-_-202053062-_-N

I have the single phase unit. Had it for a 3yrs now, so far so good. About in the middle for sound level. Not quiet but not excessivly loud either. The link I pasted to mine shows a control panel for air flow adjustment/management. That control panel setup on mine will not flow enough air for sustained use of high volume air tools. With the standard setup of a regulator/filter mounted on side of tank it it will run any airtools I use for extended periods of time. I have not used mine for painting but everything else from impacts, die grinders, cutoff tools, reciprocating saw, airfile, sanders and portable glassbeader with no problems what so ever. The only complaint I have is I wish the flywheel was a little more true. I'm a bit of a perfectionist. I did convert the tank drain to piping with a ball lever for easy moisture removal.

I got mine on sale for $999 from local Blains Farm and Fleet. http://www.farmandfleet.com/product...-80-gallon-2-stage-industrial-compressor.html they run these on sale $100-200 off couple times a year.

 

[BlackKnight427]

It doesn't matter what size the tank is. What matters is how much air the compressor delivers. If you're consuming 15 cfm and your compressor is delivering 18 cfm, you will never run out of air, regardless of tank size. If your compressor is delivering only 10 cfm, you will be constantly stopping and waiting for your compressor to catch up and it will never shut off, even with a huge tank. A large tank does not compensate for lack of air production.

If the Industrial Air delivers 17 cfm at 100 psi, it will probably give you well over 20 cfm at the 29psi your sprayer needs. If you're buying it primarily for your hvlp sprayer, it's extreme overkill.

Thank you for all the good info. I was hoping someone would chime in with exactly that kind of knowledge.

I believe your right about the 3 phase as well I doubt I have it so I will defiantly keep an eye on that to make sure I don't buy a compressor I cant even power.

I will defiantly start looking into a 60 gallon unit now since I think that will be sufficient for me and also cheaper especially since saving 4-500 dollars on the compressor will defiantly help me out with picking up a lift and welder sooner rather than later.

 

[BlackKnight427]

I got mine on sale for $999 from local Blains Farm and Fleet. http://www.farmandfleet.com/product...-80-gallon-2-stage-industrial-compressor.html they run these on sale $100-200 off couple times a year.

I was looking at exactly that one on farm and fleets site like a week ago lol I was originally thinking about that one but gravitated towards the 3 phase for the lower amperage draw, now that you guys have explained a little to me on both electrical availability and amperage specifications I think I can defiantly get by with either the unit you just posted or the IR.

I cant wait for the electrician to come out and hook up the garage. Im thinking about having them just set up like a 50 or 60 amp sub panel out in the garage but Ill save my questions on that for the electrical section.

 

[firebox40dash5]

Thank you for all the good info. I was hoping someone would chime in with exactly that kind of knowledge.

I believe your right about the 3 phase as well I doubt I have it so I will defiantly keep an eye on that to make sure I don't buy a compressor I cant even power.

I will defiantly start looking into a 60 gallon unit now since I think that will be sufficient for me and also cheaper especially since saving 4-500 dollars on the compressor will defiantly help me out with picking up a lift and welder sooner rather than later.

You can look into availability of 3 phase power. I'm no expert on it, but it depends on the area and the power company as far as what it takes and what it costs to get it. It does run stuff more efficiently, and you can get deals on really good old compressors with 3P motors, because many people don't want to mess with it. I doubt it would make sense for your stated occasional uses, but ya never know. IIRC the guy I know said he pays like $40 a month minimum (as in above his 'normal' service and use) for the 3 phase, but I think he said that includes some amount of usage that about covers his needs.

We have an old Champion R15/Speedaire at the shop with a 60 or 80 gallon (not really sure, never checked much) tank and a 5hp single phase motor, and it's never given any trouble with 2 users. Keep in mind that even a 25A rating isn't much for 240V. My HVAC unit at home is on a 40A breaker, and an electric water heater can easily draw more than that. Ours is wired with 6ga, but only because we had it laying around, you could run that a reasonable distance (I checked 30') on plain old 14ga romex.

As for output, the compressor won't be linear (10cfm @ 50psi doesn't equal 5cfm @ 100psi) but the air in the tank is. If you've got a 60 gallon tank with 150psi in it, that's like having 300 gallons at 29psi, which is a pretty damn big buffer even if your pump were a little underperforming... which a 5hp 2 stage unit shouldn't be at such a low pressure.

 

[BlackKnight427]

Keep in mind that even a 25A rating isn't much for 240V. My HVAC unit at home is on a 40A breaker, and an electric water heater can easily draw more than that. Ours is wired with 6ga, but only because we had it laying around, you could run that a reasonable distance (I checked 30') on plain old 14ga romex.

Well my concern is that my breaker in the house says it only has a 100 amp main and I doubt I could or rather should get a sub panel that has too high of a amperage rating out in the garage to run the lights/lift/compressor/welder/window ac/heater/ and a fridge now obviously I wont be running all of those at the same time but figure a compressor going off as someone uses the lift and I weld. That already is a decent amount of amperage (at least I feel like it is) not to mention the lights and fridge. Its not out of the realm of possibility that several of the above components may be under usage at some point.

 

[sanddrag]

I've been happy with this Chicago Pneumatic compressor with a newly installed Wilkerson X51 auto-drain valve. They have the 80 Gallon for $200 more.

 

[firebox40dash5]

Well my concern is that my breaker in the house says it only has a 100 amp main and I doubt I could or rather should get a sub panel that has too high of a amperage rating out in the garage to run the lights/lift/compressor/welder/window ac/heater/ and a fridge now obviously I wont be running all of those at the same time but figure a compressor going off as someone uses the lift and I weld. That already is a decent amount of amperage (at least I feel like it is) not to mention the lights and fridge. Its not out of the realm of possibility that several of the above components may be under usage at some point.

Depends on the loads you have in the house... I assume with that small main you've got mostly gas or oil for heating appliances? Well pump? Heat pump?

Panels are a little out of my area, but maybe yours is undersized for your service? If it's rickety and old you might do well to get a newer one, if you've got a higher-amp service than that. Or you could get a 2nd service for the garage... my aunt & uncle's house has something like dual 200 or 300 amp services for their 2 heat pumps and 450' deep well pump.

 

[BlackKnight427]

Depends on the loads you have in the house... I assume with that small main you've got mostly gas or oil for heating appliances? Well pump? Heat pump?

Yeah it does look pretty old, and yeah everything is mostly gas powered, no well/heat pump, central ac is of course electric, heater runs on gas. and only a small sump pump down stairs

yeah I didn't know you could upgrade service like that I will defiantly have to check that out as that may be a worthwhile investment. If not I will look into getting the garage a second source of power from ComEd.

Unfortunately the garages where kind of like a packaged deal so the electricians will only run 110 out to the garage and set up a few outlets and like 2 lights. Anything more than that is up to us. Also the company that did that has been dragging and keeps giving us ridicules excuses as to why things have taken as long as they have, so I personally would rather pay a different electrician to come out and run 220 and/or a sub panel than try saving some money by having these guys do anymore than what was already negotiated and signed for.