Industrial tool buyers

[Kscardsfan]

I've been tasked with assembling a new tool chest for our maintenance shop, so I naturally went to Williams and Proto first, even though in all likelihood I'm going to end up with a hodgepodge of brands like everywhere does. So to any of you who are buyers or managers for facilities, and to those of you who are end users, which tools from their catalogs do you guys like best and why? Does one brand seem to have better support than others? Who will make a better deal on a bulk purchase vs the others? I'm just now to the point of reaching out to discuss what our options are with both manufacturers, so we're still a long ways away from an actual purchase; but I want to do all my homework in advance. As always, thank you all for your wealth of knowledge and help.

 

[BarrelRoll]

I work in the mining industry though we provide our own tools at my current mine. I've used company tools at other places. Here's my thoughts on things:

Warranty:
Warranty and the hassle of how to warranty things should be taken into consideration depending on the structure of the company you work for. Some of the bigger places I worked at just order something new instead of trying to warranty a $25 tool. I work at a remote property in Alaska, town is 2 hour by boat and there's not many brick and mortar places to warranty stuff. I have to deal with shipping broken stuff out/ chasing down warranty issues on my days off, if it's cheap I don't even bother trying to warranty stuff. If it's something I break frequently I just buy it from snapon because we have a local rep and I can meet up with on my days off, he's easy to work with and doesn't ask for a receipt for a tool I haven't bought from him. Trying to find receipts from 3 years ago and spending half an hour on the phone is a pain in the **** and I've bought it out my pocket. I can't see most of the guys I work with dealing with the hassle for a company tool.

How many people in the department and will their be a guy responsible for tool maintenance/ warranty stuff? Will they be able and allowed to track down an original receipt, contact the vendor, and get the warranty initiated? Also how's your receiving department? If a warranty tool shows up without a PO is it going to disrupt their world? What I'm getting at is depending on the company and how cumbersome things are warranties can be a waste in the corporate/ industrial environment.

If you are going to warranty stuff having a rep you can contact directly who hopefully visits weekly would be something to consider. The guys can throw broken tools in a box, the rep grabs them weekly and shows up the next week with a replacement bypassing the front office, receiving, ect. and your guys aren't spending an hour + to get a $10 socket warrantied. You'll know who your vendors are who will work with you. The tool trucks who mainly deal with automotive shops may or may not be able to work with you. I believe snapon has industrial guys who sell to plants/ municipalities though don't deal with automotive shops. I know my rep can sell to the mechanics at the city garage though can't sell directly to the city, I don't believe he can sell directly to the mine either.

Complete Industrial Sets:
Every brand offers a master set, they throw a lot of stuff in you may or may not need. I've never looked at a set and gone that has everything I want and nothing that won't get covered in dust because of lack of use. Your maintenance guys should have a pretty good idea of what they do and don't need to do their job well. The last mine bought their mobile mechanics proto kits, there were a bunch of odd ball tools left after boxes had been picked over.

Brands:

-Williams. I have their supercombo full polished wrenches, they are amazing, my set goes to 1 1/2" in full polished and 1 9/16"-2" in stain. They work great, feel great, and I haven't broken one yet. Their black handled screw drivers are nice, I've broken a couple from abuse though a snapon blade fits a williams handle. I don't have any experiance with their sockets or ratchets.
-Grey Pneumatic, most of my impact sockets are GP. Most of their socket kits go bigger than a standard kit, my 1/2" deep standard goes from 5/16"-1 1/2" which the range is really nice, my 3/4" set goes to 2 1/2" when most sets go to 2", I do find my self using some of the bigger sockets. The only GP socket I've broken was a 3/8" drive 5mm allen, a new one was $10 on amazon so I didn't try and figure out where I bought it for warranty
-Proto. I've ended up with some older proto stuff, I really like their adjustable wrenches. I've used a lot of older proto wrenches and sockets from sets, they hold up decent though are very clunky compared to other brands.
-Gear wrench, I somehow haven't broken a gear wrench ratcheting wrench in 2 years, I have some of their sockets and the chrome is peeling. For an industrial setting I'd consider this stuff throw away junk.
-Snapon, I have a great rep he'll warranty things like broken chisels and brass drifts no questions asked. I find it's often times the same amount to buy something once from him than twice from somewhere else. The convenience of seeing him face to face is why I buy snapon, not to mention they are great tools and just plain work.

 

[Kscardsfan]

I work in the mining industry though we provide our own tools at my current mine. I've used company tools at other places. Here's my thoughts on things:

Warranty:
Warranty and the hassle of how to warranty things should be taken into consideration depending on the structure of the company you work for. Some of the bigger places I worked at just order something new instead of trying to warranty a $25 tool. I work at a remote property in Alaska, town is 2 hour by boat and there's not many brick and mortar places to warranty stuff. I have to deal with shipping broken stuff out/ chasing down warranty issues on my days off, if it's cheap I don't even bother trying to warranty stuff. If it's something I break frequently I just buy it from snapon because we have a local rep and I can meet up with on my days off, he's easy to work with and doesn't ask for a receipt for a tool I haven't bought from him. Trying to find receipts from 3 years ago and spending half an hour on the phone is a pain in the **** and I've bought it out my pocket. I can't see most of the guys I work with dealing with the hassle for a company tool.

How many people in the department and will their be a guy responsible for tool maintenance/ warranty stuff? Will they be able and allowed to track down an original receipt, contact the vendor, and get the warranty initiated? Also how's your receiving department? If a warranty tool shows up without a PO is it going to disrupt their world? What I'm getting at is depending on the company and how cumbersome things are warranties can be a waste in the corporate/ industrial environment.

If you are going to warranty stuff having a rep you can contact directly who hopefully visits weekly would be something to consider. The guys can throw broken tools in a box, the rep grabs them weekly and shows up the next week with a replacement bypassing the front office, receiving, ect. and your guys aren't spending an hour + to get a $10 socket warrantied. You'll know who your vendors are who will work with you. The tool trucks who mainly deal with automotive shops may or may not be able to work with you. I believe snapon has industrial guys who sell to plants/ municipalities though don't deal with automotive shops. I know my rep can sell to the mechanics at the city garage though can't sell directly to the city, I don't believe he can sell directly to the mine either.

Complete Industrial Sets:
Every brand offers a master set, they throw a lot of stuff in you may or may not need. I've never looked at a set and gone that has everything I want and nothing that won't get covered in dust because of lack of use. Your maintenance guys should have a pretty good idea of what they do and don't need to do their job well. The last mine bought their mobile mechanics proto kits, there were a bunch of odd ball tools left after boxes had been picked over.

Brands:

-Williams. I have their supercombo full polished wrenches, they are amazing, my set goes to 1 1/2" in full polished and 1 9/16"-2" in stain. They work great, feel great, and I haven't broken one yet. Their black handled screw drivers are nice, I've broken a couple from abuse though a snapon blade fits a williams handle. I don't have any experiance with their sockets or ratchets.
-Grey Pneumatic, most of my impact sockets are GP. Most of their socket kits go bigger than a standard kit, my 1/2" deep standard goes from 5/16"-1 1/2" which the range is really nice, my 3/4" set goes to 2 1/2" when most sets go to 2", I do find my self using some of the bigger sockets. The only GP socket I've broken was a 3/8" drive 5mm allen, a new one was $10 on amazon so I didn't try and figure out where I bought it for warranty
-Proto. I've ended up with some older proto stuff, I really like their adjustable wrenches. I've used a lot of older proto wrenches and sockets from sets, they hold up decent though are very clunky compared to other brands.
-Gear wrench, I somehow haven't broken a gear wrench ratcheting wrench in 2 years, I have some of their sockets and the chrome is peeling. For an industrial setting I'd consider this stuff throw away junk.
-Snapon, I have a great rep he'll warranty things like broken chisels and brass drifts no questions asked. I find it's often times the same amount to buy something once from him than twice from somewhere else. The convenience of seeing him face to face is why I buy snapon, not to mention they are great tools and just plain work.

A lot of what you're describing about having lots of junk we don't need or won't use is what has me concerned. One of the things that appeals to me about industrial tool suppliers vs over the counter is the ability to get foamed sets so we can immediately verify inventory. I am already battling hoarding and loss issues, so being able to see what's not in place immediately has great appeal to me. I'm glad the super combos are a good deal, I was torn between them and Wright. I might still end up with Wright for the metric side of things. I am just starting out on this adventure, so I am still a long ways from making a purchase outright for anything yet. The one advantage I have is that our entire staff is 7 people, 9 if you include the part time help, so it's relatively easy to track purchases etc. in this organization. But it also means we're all spread pretty thin most days trying to keep up with everything.

 

[Fly YX]

I would buy USA but It seems a lot of vendors are having fulfillment issues. For easy returns I have used Tekton and Capri for tools on the floor/shop that way If you have a problem you can take a pic and send a email from there website. You don’t have to wait for the truck and don’t have to go to the store and hope the person at the counter is having a good day. If you use Tekton and do it from there website and you will get 10% back for your next purchase. And some tools are USA made. Capri has 10% For military.

 

[CS454]

Sharing ideas, my stock keeper has a policy of ordering a second, redundant tool whenever we hand him a broken tool for warranty, and keeping those redundant tools under lock and key until such time arises they're needed.

This way stores usually has a 2nd wrench, socket, etc they can switch out for emergency situations. Saves downtime (to a point obviously) and justifying buying a single tool once in a while vs a full 2nd set has kept management happy.

 

[scooby074]

What about Snap On industrial? Warranty service and Tool Control? https://snaponlevel5.com/

A plant I used to work had SO Industrial. An Industrial driver would swing by and pick up brokens and drop off new tools. Was sweet. Then they went cheap and started buying china **** other than a couple SO tools like pullers. It sucked.

 

[Professional Tool User]

It will have to depend on what the bean counters have to say at the end of the day and what distribution channels you have easy access to. If you have access to a Snap on industrial rep or a rep from a supply house that sells industrial tool brands like Proto or Wright, it will really depend on who can give you the best deal and service. Your goal is to stick with one supplier for convenience/one stop shopping reasons. How you spec the tools may affect which brand is more price competitive. I've heard that if the wrenches are black oxide, going with Snap on may actually be cheaper than Proto. You're going to have to make your own inquiries. As an end user, I'm not partial to any particular brand. I generally go with whoever can give me the best deal, quality, and service at various price points.

Do I love my Proto tools? Yes. Would I pay full price for them. No. Where do I go for service/warranty? The local Dewalt Repair Centre. At a previous job (this is in Canada), most of the non specialty shop tools were Jet tools due to Lordco (auto parts chain that carries a lot of inventory) being a 5 minute drive away. It really depends on what works out best for your situation.

 

[dnschmidt]

Depends upon how big a company you are. At Westinghouse it was strictly Snap-On because they had a worldwide purchasing agreement with Snap-On that enabled them to buy at probably half price. You told the guy that managed the tool crib what you needed and he had it the next day. A guy that worked for Boeing told me they had the same deal.

 

[Jlarson]

What brand(s) does your hardware/industrial parts supplier rep? Ours does mainly Proto, I just toss broken tools at our rep or counter guy and they send it on back, only had a few Proto things break, mainly small hex sockets from reefing on set screws lol.

 

[mogandave]

If you do not have a single person that will be financially responsible for the tools, buy good storage and cheap tools.

 

[RedneckWelder]

You need a tool crib attendant for one if you want to buy the good stuff. We are a relatively small shop but without one our tooling disapppears. We had a brand new portable AC recovery unit walk off a week after it arrived and anything else disappears like crazy plus the tool room stays disorganized and messy no matter how much it gets cleaned up and such. Lots of wasted man hours finding stuff and lots of money replacing stuff

As far as warranty if you can get a vendor or rep to come in and service your inventory that would be best. Locally we have a good Industrial hardware company that is a Proto dealer along with being a Milwaukee and DeWalt and so on dealer they service industry as well and bring out orders and such to the customer much like Grainger and Fastenal do.

 

[Kscardsfan]

What about Snap On industrial? Warranty service and Tool Control? https://snaponlevel5.com/

A plant I used to work had SO Industrial. An Industrial driver would swing by and pick up brokens and drop off new tools. Was sweet. Then they went cheap and started buying china **** other than a couple SO tools like pullers. It sucked.

Actually talking to the Snap-On industrial/Williams rep about our shop later this week. I want the best quality for the best price like everybody does.

 

[scooby074]

Actually talking to the Snap-On industrial/Williams rep about our shop later this week. I want the best quality for the best price like everybody does.

Yean, but dont get blinded by low prices. I watched it happen. It also has a demoralizing effect on the workers too. " Its a moral killer when the company doesnt provide quality tools. Just a fyi.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

Proto is the only industrial brand for us. It’s easy to work with McMaster or Grainger and our rep to get the tools and to warranty them. Proto also has better stock availability and a comprehensive tool offering. If you absolutely need the tools and know you’re going to rely heavily on that warranty I’d talk to your local industrial rep and see what they have. The other one that we use a lot is Grainger’s house brand, Westward which is alright. Not as big of a fan but we’ve had Grainger give us Westward stuff in lieu of Proto if the lead time was out there.

*EDIT* I should disclose that we also have a small industrial supplier that we rely heavily on and they also sell Proto. Very few Williams hand tools through them. I just think machining suppliers gravitate to Proto because of their manufacturing footprint.

 

[Xcursion88]

If you said and I didn't see....
But what industry are you in

And....

Nobody can give you a concrete answer on this.....

Why???

Reps make all the difference in the world.

You'll know as you go who is the good rep and who are the average reps.

Quality...well none of the brands you're prospecting are junk so who can provide you the best service?
Unless someone here deals with the same reps you do nobody can really answer that

 

[Boogerman]

What I arrived at few years ago similar situation (I owned the company): Tools walked or lost or abused. Shared boxes missing stuff. Cheap tools hated/caused morale problems.

I bought top quality tools, supplied basic sets to guys. My arrangement was: Those tools were theirs if they work for me a decent amount of time; the tools go home with them when they go, if we go on good terms. They were accountable for having a full set of tools, at all times; loss or abuse they replaced at their own cost. Expendables, we bought if they weren't disappearing at excessive rates. Worn out or legitimately lost or damaged tools we replaced with discretion depending on credibility of owner; and how valuable their contribution was to company.

Result was guys had excellent tools all the time; The cost of tools going with quitting workers was less than our previous loss/replacement cost. Quality and quantity of work was better with good tools on hand at all times.

Of course, some less used tools were still communally used; and they were cared for better than before, just carryover from guys taking better care of their own tools.

Brands? Proto, Williams, Starrett, Lufkin; throw-away/expendable stuff at that time Craftsman. I'd do same now, but throw-away Dewalt.
List minimum set commonly used; compare price that to master sets Proto or Williams, buy whichever cheaper. If sets cheaper, throw excess pieces in bin for contingency use, make sets actually match work so not excess stuff in boxes.

 

[speed bump]

As much as I love buying tools I just take the list and give it to my industrial tool guys (industrial sales, fastenall, Grainger,) and tell them to give me a bid price. My personal approach is buy cheaper hand tools (particularly wrenches and sockets) unless it's something we break a lot or a specialty tool because we tend to lose a lot of tools (nature of a huge facility).

 

[Odd-job]

@ Kscardsfan might make sense to give folks some background on your shop, type of work, number of people, budget.

Sounds like you still have the shovel hoarder that made that awesome socket adapter.

Only manage myself and lose all my own tools, but unless you can make it worthwhile for a tool truck to stop by with some frequency, would consider Carlyle only because Napas are everywhere. Plus its easy to source singles when the tool hoarders decide they need multiples of something that everyone else needs. This is assuming your local Napa is well stocked. Looks like the closest distribution center to you is Kansas City (I think you are in Kansas). For reference I usually have to wait a day to get things from Sacramento to the Bay area. Also would make sure they don't hit you with special shipping charges if coming from the distribution center.

McMaster Carr and Grainger seem too far away to deal with logistically speaking.

Ohhh and Harry J Epstein is only 120 miles away... it would be my dream to walk in there and buy a tool chest's worth of stuff.

 

[BarrelRoll]

A lot of what you're describing about having lots of junk we don't need or won't use is what has me concerned. One of the things that appeals to me about industrial tool suppliers vs over the counter is the ability to get foamed sets so we can immediately verify inventory. I am already battling hoarding and loss issues, so being able to see what's not in place immediately has great appeal to me.

This is one thing I don't miss about company tools. Trying to figure out where ED left the X sized wrench was fun. It could be anywhere in a mine with 4 pump stations, 2 buggies, and separated by 15 minutes of driving and 2,000' vertical from top to bottom.

Do your guys all have their own basic stuff? The mine I worked at where Ed would leave stuff everywhere my boss bought me a bag and basic tools to fill it. It saved me hours trying to track down simple tools. The hording and loss issues seems to happen when there's no real accountability.

What I arrived at few years ago similar situation (I owned the company): Tools walked or lost or abused. Shared boxes missing stuff. Cheap tools hated/caused morale problems.

I bought top quality tools, supplied basic sets to guys. My arrangement was: Those tools were theirs if they work for me a decent amount of time; the tools go home with them when they go, if we go on good terms. They were accountable for having a full set of tools, at all times; loss or abuse they replaced at their own cost. Expendables, we bought if they weren't disappearing at excessive rates. Worn out or legitimately lost or damaged tools we replaced with discretion depending on credibility of owner; and how valuable their contribution was to company...

One of the major mining companies at least used to do this. They bought you a 40" proto box and tools, if you stayed on 2 years you got to keep your box and tools. One of my current coworkers still has his tools from them. My current employer gives us $1,500 a year for tool allowance which helps though a base set of tools is about $2-$8k or more depending on the quality you want and if you go to 1/2" drive sockets and wrenches to 1 1/4" or 3/4" drive sockets and wrenches to 2". The current place has a fair amount of big/ specialty stuff though I've bought a lot of it on my own so I don't have to play detective or find it put away broken.

There's 2 sides to the personal vs. company owned tools side. I don't like spending the money though like having the tools I think make my job easier vs. what an office guy or sales rep thinks I need. When I die my wife can auction off my tools and buy a new car or take a nice trip. I did work in a machine shop with company tools that was very well organized, the hunt for tools wasn't too bad. I believe this organization was put in place from day 1. Getting people to buy into an organization system when they are set in their ways for decades can be pretty hard.


Rock solid organization with socket racks or blow molded cases, wrench racks, ect. can be a pretty simple way to see what's missing. Everything needs a place. Spend 2 minuets opening drawers and it's obvious to see what's out of place. I've had an intern using my tools this past summer and it's pretty easy to figure out what he's put in the wrong place or hasn't made it into my box yet. Most of my common stuff is organized and my disorganized wrench drawer ect. will be fixed when my new bigger box finally shows up.

It sounds like it's too small of an operation to have a dedicated tool room attendant and your guys are spread pretty thin already. Having 1 guy responsible for tools might make your life easier if you can spare an hour or 2 a week for him to spend on tools.

 

[matt_i]

Shared-useage toolboxes are the birds because its always lowest-common denominator on who cares to put things back in place as has been mentioned. Worst are "project engineers" who come to get a system working seemingly as quickly as possible then jet off, they are known to "borrow" aka cherry pick what they need, lose half of it and on the last day, jam it all back into another shared box somewhere across the plant as they try to get rid of their giant junk pile.

I buy Tekton tools for the boxes as they are a good proposition for value and quality. I get the technician group a personal tool bag and some basic stuff (screwdrivers, adjustables, pliers, measuring tools, a file), its a balance between lightweight and having exactly what's needed, but aimed to be lightweight so no full wrench or socket sets.

A couple years back Tekton were also sold at Meijer (regional grocery + "other useful stuff" store) probably both being headquartered out of Grand Rapids, MI area and my rationale was "why steal a tool you can buy at a grocery store?

 

[buildyourown]

If you dont have an attendant stuff walks away.
We buy HF for the communal box and it gets replaced when it goes missing.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

God, after reading so many of these posts all I can say is that I'm very fortunate to work at the shop I do. We've never had any issues with company tools taking a walk. The only problems we have are that guys tend to hoard specialty shop tools so people are always having to walk all over the shop to get them from another machinist's bench and that the shop tools are treated rough. No one bothers to clean them or report them to procurement if the screwdriver tips are rounded or if an open end on a wrench is spread or if a punch is bent. They just continue to beat on them and then put them back into the community chest until that one guy finally snaps and asks for replacements.

 

[speed bump]

If you dont have an attendant stuff walks away.
We buy HF for the communal box and it gets replaced when it goes missing.

I always thought that but everywhere I worked that didn't buy junk generally also didn't lose a lot of tools. At my current plant we buy a lot of smaller sockets and wrenches (sub 1" stuff) but our facility exists to generate dust so stuff gets lost.

 

[NoahG]

I actually get along well in a shop with hoarders. It’s better, in my view, to know that the guy across the shop is bogarting the set of, say, expensive chisels, where I know he’ll keep them together and well maintained, and they’re not just waiting in the tool crib to be used as pry bars and the best sizes lost.

 

[Kscardsfan]

I actually get along well in a shop with hoarders. It’s better, in my view, to know that the guy across the shop is bogarting the set of, say, expensive chisels, where I know he’ll keep them together and well maintained, and they’re not just waiting in the tool crib to be used as pry bars and the best sizes lost.

Our guy hoards them and then doesn't keep them together, maintain them, and uses them as prybars right out of the box.

 

[will335i]

What kind of work are you and/or the others doing? Equipment maintenance, fabrication, or a little bit of both. If it is strictly maintenance I would look at the manuals for the equipment to see if they provide any guidance for what tools are needed for each job. Then you could take that and create kits per job or per piece of equipment depending on the amount of overlap. Then when employee 1 is assigned to perform task A, B and C they can go to the tool crib and pull the exact kits they need. This also aids in tracking who used what tools. With fabrication it is trickier since you don't necessarily know what tools are needed until the job comes up.

If they custom kits are useful to you then you might lean towards the manufacture that is willing to build out those kits for you and keep track of past orders if you need to replace a kit or get more.

 

[Kscardsfan]

What kind of work are you and/or the others doing? Equipment maintenance, fabrication, or a little bit of both. If it is strictly maintenance I would look at the manuals for the equipment to see if they provide any guidance for what tools are needed for each job. Then you could take that and create kits per job or per piece of equipment depending on the amount of overlap. Then when employee 1 is assigned to perform task A, B and C they can go to the tool crib and pull the exact kits they need. This also aids in tracking who used what tools. With fabrication it is trickier since you don't necessarily know what tools are needed until the job comes up.

If they custom kits are useful to you then you might lean towards the manufacture that is willing to build out those kits for you and keep track of past orders if you need to replace a kit or get more.

Well I manage a state park, so we do a little bit of everything. And because we're an underfunded state agency, we have equipment from almost every major manufacturer and from multiple eras. So metric, SAE, and homemade repairs and patch jobs are the norm for us. I got a quote from Snappy and I'm waiting on Proto to get back to me still. So we'll see. But to more specifically answer your question, we don't have any dedicated or special machinery operating here for the most part that has a dedicated repair manual or tool list etc. when it breaks, we fix it and keep rolling. Some days I am strictly a cop/ranger, other days I'm riding one of the tractors with the bush hog behind it with a badge and gun on. It's very normal for me on busy weekends to replace someone's breaker or 50 amp outlet while I'm wearing all my patrol gear lol.

 

[sparky 1971]

I didn't read all of the posts so this may have already been covered. A good friend of mine was the superintendent for the county maintenance shop and told me about the pricing they got from Snap On. One of the perks to being a county mechanic is that the county supplies the tools. Of course, that was off set by horrible pay. He had been a heavy equipment mechanic for over 30 years at other shops before going to work there so he had a very extensive set of tools at his home shop and supplemented his income there. Anyway, he wanted the Snappy 1/2" drive locking flex 24" ratchet. The next time he saw a truck, he bought the ratchet for $230 cash. The county did not have one. Upon becoming the super, he ordered one of the ratchets for shop use. $90. He told me that everything was priced like that through Snap On with the government account, but they didn't deal with a driver. Ordered directly from Snap On and it was delivered by UPS. I would think the Park Service would qualify for the same type of pricing, but maybe not. Of course, Tekton is decent and even at full price is less than 1/2 of Snap On government pricing.