Infared nat gas heater as supplement?

[RazorSVT]

Hey guys, I currently have a 60,000btu natural gas forced air heater which takes a long time to warm up the garage in -40 conditions. I live in northern Alberta, where these are normal winter temperatures. I was wondering if many people use an infrared tube heater as a supplement and if it’s a good idea?

Shop is 30’x32’ and 10’ ceilings.
When I’m not in the garage my thermostat is set to 42F (5 c) and when working in there I’m comfortable at 62f (16c).

 

[4x4Pete]

Nice shop! I have the same size shop as you do, but I have 12'6" ceilings and is located in south central Ontario. I use a 60k nat gas radiant tube for heat, but the heat calcs said 40k would be sufficient. I keep the temperature up at around 20°C 24/7, and it never has a problem to maintain temp. It's really comfortable, has no cold spots and is ready to go when I am The problem with radiant tube heat is similar to slab heating. It needs to be kept at a set temperature for it to be most effective. Maybe you can try to keep your place a bit warmer to help with warm-up time? Or use a wifi tstat to increase the temp an hour or two before you head out there?

 

[RazorSVT]

Nice shop! I have the same size shop as you do, but I have 12'6" ceilings and is located in south central Ontario. I use a 60k nat gas radiant tube for heat, but the heat calcs said 40k would be sufficient. I keep the temperature up at around 20°C 24/7, and it never has a problem to maintain temp. It's really comfortable, has no cold spots and is ready to go when I am The problem with radiant tube heat is similar to slab heating. It needs to be kept at a set temperature for it to be most effective. Maybe you can try to keep your place a bit warmer to help with warm-up time? Or use a wifi tstat to increase the temp an hour or two before you head out there?

Thanks man, it’s a work in progress. Oh ok right on, as a supplement I was just thinking of getting a 30,000 btu. I have a wifi Tstat and yup have to set it about 2 hrs before I want to work in there. I work 6 and 6 so for 6 days I don’t step foot in there so leave it at 5 degrees so I’m not spending an extra couple hundred/month for nothing. Just wondering if it would be a good idea to work in conjunction with my forced air on the same Tstat so shop would warm up faster everytime know what I mean?

 

[Bert_]

The radiant is nice because if you are near it you feel warm, even if the air is cold.

At 10' you are marginal even for low clearance models. I really like overhead radiant but I have 9' ceiling in my garage and installed forced air.

 

[4x4Pete]

I'm thinking the 5° is too much to overcome in a fairly short time. Everything in the shop will be cold and forced air will take a long while to warm up the things in cupboards and toolboxes. I'd try and set the temp up a few degrees during your unoccupied times and see how much it really costs. My (detached) shop is fairly well insulated, R22 walls and R 40+ in the ceiling and sealed as tight as possible for a garage with 2 overhead doors, 3 windows, and a man door. I keep it at 20° all the time and it only costs about $300 for the whole wimter. My attached garage is heated by a 50k 80% eff. furnace. At one point we received a notice from the gas supplier that we were using about $120 a year more gas in comparison to the neighbors. They thought I should look at a new system. My wife complained to me about the cost of the gas after seeing this letter. I laughed and said we keep the garage heated all winter for only $120! You might be pleasantly surprised how much it really costs.

 

[BillK]

Oh ok right on, as a supplement I was just thinking of getting a 30,000 btu. .............. 5 degrees so I’m not spending an extra couple hundred/month for nothing.

So how much is the supplemental going to burn through ?

One of my good customers who is a commercial HVAC contractor told me years ago that turning the thermostat down really does not save anything because it takes forever to warm everything back up including the concrete slab and any equipment etc. Since then I leave the thermostat alone and I really do not think there is much difference. I haven't touched it in 20 years.

 

[RazorSVT]

The radiant is nice because if you are near it you feel warm, even if the air is cold.

At 10' you are marginal even for low clearance models. I really like overhead radiant but I have 9' ceiling in my garage and installed forced air.

Yes that’s pretty cool, that’s why I was thinking maybe it would be a good compliment to my forced air as well. Oh really? So I would have to look at low clearance models?

I'm thinking the 5° is too much to overcome in a fairly short time. Everything in the shop will be cold and forced air will take a long while to warm up the things in cupboards and toolboxes. I'd try and set the temp up a few degrees during your unoccupied times and see how much it really costs. My (detached) shop is fairly well insulated, R22 walls and R 40+ in the ceiling and sealed as tight as possible for a garage with 2 overhead doors, 3 windows, and a man door. I keep it at 20° all the time and it only costs about $300 for the whole wimter. My attached garage is heated by a 50k 80% eff. furnace. At one point we received a notice from the gas supplier that we were using about $120 a year more gas in comparison to the neighbors. They thought I should look at a new system. My wife complained to me about the cost of the gas after seeing this letter. I laughed and said we keep the garage heated all winter for only $120! You might be pleasantly surprised how much it really costs.

I have the same amount as windows and doors as you and pretty sure the same insualation value. Ya I guess I could test it by turning it up a bit on my days off but when I’m away at work there would be absolutely no need to set it above 5. Wow that’s it? I’m pretty sure mine would be a lot more than that winter. Fort McMurray winters up here. Lol

I also doubt my Reznor furnace is anywhere close to 80% efficient. lol

So how much is the supplemental going to burn through ?

One of my good customers who is a commercial HVAC contractor told me years ago that turning the thermostat down really does not save anything because it takes forever to warm everything back up including the concrete slab and any equipment etc. Since then I leave the thermostat alone and I really do not think there is much difference. I haven't touched it in 20 years.

What do you mean how much it will burn through? I can understand that but for 6 days when I’m at work my garage doesn’t even get opened so I always leave it at 5. The higher I turn it the more the furnace kicks on. However for my 6 days off I can do a test and leave it turned up abit to see the costs. I also have RaceDeck tiles so no need to warm concrete.

I was just hoping as a supplement to use it with the forced air right before I want to work in there.

 

[BillK]

What do you mean how much it will burn through?

Just that. How much gas will the radient use and will that counteract any savings you might get my turning it down ?

The higher I turn it the more the furnace kicks on.

Thats because it is trying to heat everything up. When you turn the heat down all of your tools, tool boxes, hardware etc etc etc all get cold too and until they warm back up they are making your heater work harder. Do you have an infrared thermometer ? Next time you go out to your garage after the heat has been turned down see what temperature one of your lift columns is. And see if it ever gets up to 62 deg while you are in there.

I also have RaceDeck tiles so no need to warm concrete.

Race deck or not there is still cold concrete that is making the heater run more to heat it up.

I was just hoping as a supplement to use it with the forced air right before I want to work in there.

 

[RazorSVT]

Just that. How much gas will the radient use and will that counteract any savings you might get my turning it down ?

Thats because it is trying to heat everything up. When you turn the heat down all of your tools, tool boxes, hardware etc etc etc all get cold too and until they warm back up they are making your heater work harder. Do you have an infrared thermometer ? Next time you go out to your garage after the heat has been turned down see what temperature one of your lift columns is. And see if it ever gets up to 62 deg while you are in there.



Race deck or not there is still cold concrete that is making the heater run more to heat it up.

You may be right if just turning it down for the night, but I’d like to think for 6 days of inactivity at a time it would be saving to keep turned down and cost a lot less to use sparingly. -40 and howling winds outside still play a part no matter how insulated a shop is. However I have not tested this but logically to me it makes sense.

I get your point and I’ll try the laser thermometer out on things.

 

[4x4Pete]

If you're not using it for 6 days straight, turning it down makes sense. Maybe another approach is to turn it up the night before going out there, giving more time to warm up? I doubt I could cope with -40° on a regular basis. I also doubt my heating bill would be as low as it is.

 

[fitter30]

There were two in my house when a purchase it both were bigger that 30k . Fired them up and they scared me. Having a open flame with just a flimsy wire grill not for me. Can work on a 5+ million btu burner in a boiler or a oxy acetylene torch with a rose bud. But in my house no.

 

[dscheidt]

You may be right if just turning it down for the night, but I’d like to think for 6 days of inactivity at a time it would be saving to keep turned down and cost a lot less to use sparingly. -40 and howling winds outside still play a part no matter how insulated a shop is. However I have not tested this but logically to me it makes sense.

I get your point and I’ll try the laser thermometer out on things.

setbacks save money. The energy input into a building is directly proportional to the temperature differential, so the lower the differential, the less energy required. The details vary on how energy efficient the building (insulation, air sealing) is. Well sealed and well insulated modern buildings can lose amazingly little energy, while a drafty old shop leaks like a seive. The heat the contents absorb on the way up is given up on the way down, minus some inefficiency, which determines how long you need hold the lower temperature to break even. The calculations change if you use a different heat source to do the reheat -- like a heat pump switching from heat pumping to electric resistance backup, or a secondary source is used to speed up the reheat that is not as efficient. overshooting also causes inefficiency (but it's a possible comfort booster, so not always pure waste.)

 

[pbon]

Buy a thermostat that you can control with an app on your phone and turn up the heat the day before you return. Beware that condensation from warming and cooling and warming and cooling can damage power equipment over time (welders, power tools, etc).

 

[MichaelP]

I don't think condensation will be an issue in the situation. There is almost no moisture in the air at freezing temperatures, so heating dry air shouldn't really cause condensation.

 

[Bert_]

There were two in my house when a purchase it both were bigger that 30k . Fired them up and they scared me. Having a open flame with just a flimsy wire grill not for me. Can work on a 5+ million btu burner in a boiler or a oxy acetylene torch with a rose bud. But in my house no.

Fyi, none of that describes a radiant tube heater.

There is no open flame, no wire grill, and you would never have one installed in a house.

A tube heater has a burner that fires into a 20-70' long tube that exhausts outside the building. The tube gets hot enough to give off radiant heat like the sun. They are hung from the ceiling usually at least 12' off the ground.