Inflation reduction act

[pcmeiners]

The inflation reduction act will help out home owners/businesses outfit energy efficient upgrades....

Here's how the Inflation Reduction Act's rebates and tax credits for heat pumps and solar can lower your energy bill

www.morningstar.com

 

[yeldogt]

It's going to be interesting ...

NJ had a great program for years that was not income based that made doing the better HP equipment a no brainer ..... they were cheaper after the rebates --- so people always installed the better heat pumps. The problem was --- those with NG never used the heat pump with NJ's high electric cost. Did help with AC -- and the units are quiet and more comfortable.

My guess is with the rebates there will be almost no selling of traditional electric stoves or water heaters.

 

[reader2580]

The greatest advantage with heat pump water heaters is going to be in warmer parts of the USA. A heat pump water would just **** all the heat I paid for out of my basement in the winter. I already have enough issues keeping my basement warm. (I planned for a separate zone for basement, but not enough room to run the extra ductwork.)

 

[azmodela]

The 150% median income requirement will hurt the efficiency and effectiveness of the bill. 150% isn't much, and those that fall within it probably aren't going to upgrade early, or upgrade to the much more expensive systems. There's a big difference between a heat pump water heater, and a gas one. That difference continues through the life and maintenance of the system. Same for an AC/furnace system, to change it out to a heat pump, and be upsold on the higher seer, vfd type of systems, when compared to the price of a single or even dual stage heat pump system.

 

[pcmeiners]

"A heat pump water would just **** all the heat I paid for out of my basement in the winter."

In Europe and Japan the use heat pumps station outside, using a gas to water heat exchanger, piping water lines to an interior tank, much more efficient . Guess in a few years the US will wise up, maybe; you can get one of the units but over here they are ridiculously expensive.

 

[reader2580]

I suspect the income limit is because of all the concerns that the current $7,500 EV tax credit is mostly going to high income people that would most likely buy the vehicle with or without the credit.

 

[mike93lx]

The 150% median income requirement will hurt the efficiency and effectiveness of the bill. 150% isn't much, and those that fall within it probably aren't going to upgrade early, or upgrade to the much more expensive systems. There's a big difference between a heat pump water heater, and a gas one. That difference continues through the life and maintenance of the system. Same for an AC/furnace system, to change it out to a heat pump, and be upsold on the higher seer, vfd type of systems, when compared to the price of a single or even dual stage heat pump system.

Have you actually checked the numbers ? In my area, median is 101k and it isn't a HCOL. Lots of people will qualify and those are the ones that need the incentives.

 

[mike93lx]

I suspect the income limit is because of all the concerns that the current $7,500 EV tax credit is mostly going to high income people that would most likely buy the vehicle with or without the credit.

We do need adoption to help the tech grow, so the incentives aren't wasted by any stretch, but yes, they do help the wealthy for sure.

Even just the mechanism of having to wait up to 15 months to get the credit is something that wouldnt work for the people that need that kind of credit.

 

[jar944]

Have you actually checked the numbers ? In my area, median is 101k and it isn't a HCOL. Lots of people will qualify and those are the ones that need the incentives.

Looks like the upnfront incentives drop out at 130k (couple filing jointly) in VA. That may just be bad programming on the calculator I was looking at or they went off state median.

 

[mike93lx]

Looks like the upnfront incentives drop out at 130k (couple filing jointly) in VA. That may just be bad programming on the calculator I was looking at or they went off state median.

I didn't think it was by state. I used a link provided by the gov't and it took me to a map where I input my zip code. Using my figure, it would be just over $150k, so not massively different

 

[White Shadow]

I suspect the income limit is because of all the concerns that the current $7,500 EV tax credit is mostly going to high income people that would most likely buy the vehicle with or without the credit.

All of the "expensive" EVs are excluded anyway. There's a $55K cap on sedans and an $80K cap on trucks and SUVs. That doesn't leave much beyond the more basic EVs. The only Teslas that are under the cap are the base Model 3 and the Model Y (since it's classified as an SUV, even if it's really just a taller Model 3)

There are other exclusions as well besides vehicle price and income limits. Manufacturing locations and source of materials for the batteries can also block the credit. I think they screwed this up royally if trying to incentivize EVs was the goal. If anything, it will probably have the opposite effect.

 

[yatg]

Its fundamentally wrong to use OPM (other people's money) to pay for OPS (other people's "stuff").

 

[jar944]

I didn't think it was by state. I used a link provided by the gov't and it took me to a map where I input my zip code. Using my figure, it would be just over $150k, so not massively different

Odd I did that for chantilly (loudoun county) zip and got 130k (which is lower than the median for the county.) Something seems screwed up.

 

[American Locomotive]

The greatest advantage with heat pump water heaters is going to be in warmer parts of the USA. A heat pump water would just **** all the heat I paid for out of my basement in the winter. I already have enough issues keeping my basement warm. (I planned for a separate zone for basement, but not enough room to run the extra ductwork.)

Most people don't have heated basements, and for those that do, they still much cheaper hot water for 60-70% of the year. Actually, heat pump water heaters are so efficient (and standard natural gas storage tanks so inefficient), that if you heat your house with a 90+ natural gas furnace, you'll likely still do better in the winter with a heat pump water heater.

 

[azmodela]

Have you actually checked the numbers ? In my area, median is 101k and it isn't a HCOL. Lots of people will qualify and those are the ones that need the incentives.

Of course, I wouldn’t have made such a statement if I didn’t. A median income north of $100k is rare, and probably only applies to less than 10% of all zip codes.

Lots of people will qualify, but these generally aren’t the people who proactively make upgrades for efficiency. They replace things when they die. System costs will be a big factor in their decision. The cost of a full HVAC system these days is not cheap, the more efficient ones are thousands more than the basic single stage heat pump. Also, the language says “up to…”. Probably only the most efficient systems will qualify for the full amount. We’ll see how the states setup the rebate programs.

 

[Jackfre]

Transitions are hard. I made a living selling oil and gas equipment. Rebates drove the business in many cases. I’m a member of a couple private oil groups and those guys are going nuts. Their Dad’s enjoyed the rebates of that period, but the worm turns. For me, a dedicated gasser, I will probably replace my tankless gas water heater with a HP. Not sure when, but making power with the solar system I installed myself at half the cost the pros were quoting me, it makes sense to use as much as possible and get out of propane except for the generator. That also means getting an induction range and dropping the gas range which I will do soon. I’d love to buy an EV, but as little as we drive, being retired, those numbers don’t make sense right now. I think the limits on the EV qualification will push manuf to produce vehicles in the lower price ranges. We all like features and benefits in a vehicle or any purchase, but net/net a vehicle is how to get some where cost effectively. It is going to be a messy transition but I for one am happy that this bill passed. Way to go Joe!

 

[mike93lx]

Of course, I wouldn’t have made such a statement if I didn’t. A median income north of $100k is rare, and probably only applies to less than 10% of all zip codes.

Lots of people will qualify, but these generally aren’t the people who proactively make upgrades for efficiency. They replace things when they die. System costs will be a big factor in their decision. The cost of a full HVAC system these days is not cheap, the more efficient ones are thousands more than the basic single stage heat pump. Also, the language says “up to…”. Probably only the most efficient systems will qualify for the full amount. We’ll see how the states setup the rebate programs.

Just over 1/3 of American households are over 100k. I haven't found data on median by area (trying to find it by zip code), but I bet it's higher than 10%.

No argument on proactive vs reactive. I'm replacing two systems right now and am lucky to be able to do it proactively

 

[DenisG]

All bandaids and misdirection from the very people who are causing currency devaluation.