Inground Lift

[rnpatrick]

Hey Guys - next question.

I definitely want to put a lift in my garage. Since I have not broken ground now is the time to plan.

What are your thoughts on inground lifts like this:

Downsides I have found so far are
1 - Increased cost
2 - Some of them require professional installation

But on the upside, this type of lift does not have the towers sticking up all the time which would look cleaner (a minor point) but would make it easier to use the
lift bay for parking. I don't mind parking my truck over the lift and having to step out over the lift arms but having to worry about opening the door and banging the lift post would be a major PITA to me.

Maybe I am worried about nothing - what do you guys do? Are 2-post lifts actually wide enough you can park between them without having to do acrobatics to get in and out?

FWIW, the max thing I would need to lift is a full size crew cab pickup or a full size SUV (i.e. Suburban) - which is probably also what I would be parking in the bay.

Any pros/cons of inground vs 2-post appreciated!

 

[ManOnTheCouch]

The type of lift pictured restricts a lot of access to the underside of a vehicle. Added expense and difficult maintenance, if needed, would be additional drawbacks. The standard two post lifts are popular because they're inexpensive and offer maximum access to the bottom of the car, unlike inground lifts and four post lifts. Just my $.02.

 

[jeepinerdeep]

The type of lift pictured restricts a lot of access to the underside of a vehicle. Added expense and difficult maintenance, if needed, would be additional drawbacks. The standard two post lifts are popular because they're inexpensive and offer maximum access to the bottom of the car, unlike inground lifts and four post lifts. Just my $.02.

I fail to see how access is restricted. The principle is the exact same as a 2 post above ground. Are you sure you aren't talking about a single post in ground?

OP- I think they are ****, I'd be tempted to go that way for astehics. They appear to be 3x the cost though.

 

[pbon]

I fail to see how access is restricted. The principle is the exact same as a 2 post above ground.

No, it’s not. The in ground posts are close together. 2 post lifts are far enough apart to drive through. Only the 4 arms encroach and they come in at frame level.

An asymmetrical 2 post, with posts angled, gives best access to get in and out if car. Bendpak makes a great one BP-10AS or something like that. Mohawk A7 is twice the price but more compact. And there are others.

 

[493mike]

I worked on one of those for several years mostly doing transmission work. The only issues I recall were some exhaust systems.
Mike

 

[Falcon67]

I fail to see how access is restricted.

I just did an oil change on our Fusion - the front post support on that lift would make it impossible to do the oil change. You'd have to drive it up on ramps. I can also see where it would make it very hard to release/install motor mounts and lower control arm work on the 60s Fords I keep here. No pulling the oil pan on a 70 Mustang for sure.

 

[rsanter]

I would love one of those.
I not do it because of the added cost and the fact that it does not leave me a clear floor.
As much as I want a 2 post I will end up with a 4 post so I can move it out of the way when I need the floor for other things

 

[pbon]

I really liked my Atlas BP8000 2 post floor plate. Was looking at Bendpak BP-10AS (or XPR or something like that) asymmetrical top plate 2 post and also at Mohawk A7. But bought Bendpak HD-9XW 4 post.

 

[LXCam]

My dentist has that style lift in his shop. I don't care much for it, it's not as convenient or clear as a two poster. But it also doesn't eat up the additional width of a two post either. Personally if I were to ever do an inground, I'd opt out for this kind. That way everything is flush when lowered and I'd just make arm adapters as needed for certain kinds of projects.

https://www.ebay.com/i/131853365644...7%26rvr_ts%3D38b24e421640a99c10237aaaffefcae5

 

[jeepinerdeep]

No, it’s not. The in ground posts are close together. 2 post lifts are far enough apart to drive through. Only the 4 arms encroach and they come in at frame level.

An asymmetrical 2 post, with posts angled, gives best access to get in and out if car. Bendpak makes a great one BP-10AS or something like that. Mohawk A7 is twice the price but more compact. And there are others.

I just did an oil change on our Fusion - the front post support on that lift would make it impossible to do the oil change. You'd have to drive it up on ramps. I can also see where it would make it very hard to release/install motor mounts and lower control arm work on the 60s Fords I keep here. No pulling the oil pan on a 70 Mustang for sure.

What?? Are you sure guys aren't looking at his thing sideways?? Again, all I'm seeing is the same principle as above ground. It's not a center support pole lift. I'm open for education if I'm missing something

 

[Paycheck]

There’s another thread in here somewheres on in floor lifts. Might have some good info.

 

[finn]

Couch is looking at it wrong. The posts of that lift go outside of the car, not under the middle like the 1950s service station oil change lifts where either a single or dual post was under the car.

My only comment for any in ground lift is that you better have a real good oil containment system. Our vehicle service area of the engine lab pulled one for replacement. It had been in the ground for fewer than ten years, but we could no longer get parts for it.

Ended up having to remediate tons of soil because the seals leaked hydraulic fluid and the containment didn’t hold. Costs were in the tens of thousands of dollars.

 

[rburke65]

I don't understand what they are talking about. I don't see where there would be any obstructions to any work.

 

[log man]

That pic gives me a much different perspective than the initial one. I wouldn’t want to step over that parking everyday. The scissors lift really intrigue me but they are a bit pricy.

 

[LXCam]

That pic gives me a much different perspective than the initial one. I wouldn’t want to step over that parking everyday. The scissors lift really intrigue me but they are a bit pricy.

Something to consider, there won't be anything cheap about installing a inground lift. You might find that the cost to install this one would offset the purchase and installation of the twin plate system I linked.

 

[rsanter]

Couch is looking at it wrong. The posts of that lift go outside of the car, not under the middle like the 1950s service station oil change lifts where either a single or dual post was under the car.

My only comment for any in ground lift is that you better have a real good oil containment system. Our vehicle service area of the engine lab pulled one for replacement. It had been in the ground for fewer than ten years, but we could no longer get parts for it.

Ended up having to remediate tons of soil because the seals leaked hydraulic fluid and the containment didn’t hold. Costs were in the tens of thousands of dollars.

The new versions of this lift system are done by pouring your concrete with a specific sized hole or concrete box cast into the ground. In fact the lifts come with the form so to speak that creates the proper sized pocket this drops into.
The oil is contained in that cast concrete hole. When yo need to service this unit you pull the whole thing out of the pocket in the concrete

 

[ConCretin]

Most of the negative comments are completely unfounded. I have one and absolutely love it. More costly and complicated to install but worth every penny. Same access as a two post without the posts.

 

[6768rogues]

My friend had an inground lift. In about a 15 year period, he had to jackhammer his floor three times and dig down to do repairs and fix leaks. One time he had to remove a lot of contaminated soil. He yanked it out an put in an above the floor lift. Based on his experience, I bought an above floor lift.

 

[pbon]

What?? Are you sure guys aren't looking at his thing sideways?? Again, all I'm seeing is the same principle as above ground. It's not a center support pole lift. I'm open for education if I'm missing something

When it is raised, the posts are under the car where they can get in the way of certain work and you moving around. With a two post lift, the posts are on the outside of the car. Probably fine for what most people do. Each style lift has its pros and cons.

 

[rnpatrick]

Most of the negative comments are completely unfounded. I have one and absolutely love it. More costly and complicated to install but worth every penny. Same access as a two post without the posts.

LLWillysfan - just curious what brand you have? Not every lift company makes an inground model.

 

[jtbinvalrico]

Consider a flush mount scissor lift. Atlas FM9SL, 9000 lbs capacity. $3600 for the lift plus concrete work.
http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/FM9SL-In-Ground-Lift


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rnpatrick]

When it is raised, the posts are under the car where they can get in the way of certain work and you moving around. With a two post lift, the posts are on the outside of the car. Probably fine for what most people do. Each style lift has its pros and cons.

At least for the Rotary brand lift, the posts are still mostly out from under the car but I will agree that the top plate holding the arms is closer on the Rotary inground than anything on a 2-post. I looked at the specs and unless you have a super narrow car (which I don't) I think I am going to be driving over the plate on the top of the post.

I doubt this is a huge concern or issue but definitely something to make me keep scratching my chin...

 

[rnpatrick]

Consider a flush mount scissor lift. Atlas FM9SL, 9000 lbs capacity. $3600 for the lift plus concrete work.
http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/FM9SL-In-Ground-Lift

I saw these scissor lifts before posting and in all honesty, I feel like if all I did was rotate tires or change oil this would be OK and really good considering the flush floor.

But what worries me is that those pads extend further under the side of a car than I would want. I have 2 cars that have fuel filters along the frame rails and have spend a fair amount of time working on various things that look like those lift pads would be more pain than benefit. Correct me if I'm wrong on that but I value mostly unhindered access when the car is up over a completely flat floor when it is down.

The inground style seemed to be a good compromise but maybe the asymetric style is almost as good but 1/3 the cost?

 

[ConCretin]

LLWillysfan - just curious what brand you have? Not every lift company makes an inground model.

It’s a Rotary SL210. 10,000 lb capacity. It has a fiberglass enclosure that contains any leaks and protects it from groundwater. All the mechanicals are accessible from above for repairs and maintenance. I really haven’t found a downside to this lift.

 

[walrus]

It’s a Rotary SL210. 10,000 lb capacity. It has a fiberglass enclosure that contains any leaks and protects it from groundwater. All the mechanicals are accessible from above for repairs and maintenance. I really haven’t found a downside to this lift.

Yeah, that's a great lift. Imho, much better than above ground. I have an above ground rotary, it's a nice lift but not as nice as their below ground stuff

Sent from my SM-G950U using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[pbon]

Consider a flush mount scissor lift. Atlas FM9SL, 9000 lbs capacity. $3600 for the lift plus concrete work.
http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/FM9SL-In-Ground-Lift


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’d take the in ground 2 post over the scissor since the scissor structures get even more in the way than the closely spaced 2 posts and plates when working under the car. But even a scissor lift is way better than no lift, though.

2 post asymmetrical column is my first choice like Mohawk A7 or Bendpak XPR-10AS. But sometimes we have to compromise — I just bought a 4 post due to the design of my new shop space. I will be able to do everything I need on it but will have to be more patient or creative at times.

 

[Mosby]

I have been a mechanic in dealerships for over 25 years now. I have worked on cars/trucks using single post in ground air/hydraulic lifts, 2 post air/hydraulic, 2 post symmetrical and non symmetrical above ground lifts, 4 post lifts, and in ground dual front/back air over/hydraulic lifts ( mostly for trucks, lifts from the axles) and I can tell you in general usage the in ground electric lifts like the OP posted are by far the best to work under.

The in ground portion of the lift is entirely contained in a sealed container, one poster said it is fiberglass, I thought it is plastic, but I could be wrong. No danger what so ever of oil getting into the ground. The lift is powered by the same type of pump as a twin post electric lift. And it is mounted on the wall wherever convenient. Uses air pressure to open the lift locks, so a loss of pressure locks the lift to keep it from falling and the locks are automatically engaged. Powered by 220v electric.

There is no repairs on any car I can think of that would be blocked by the arms or posts. Possibly installing running boards, or nerf bars would be a bit of a hassle. But still doable. No exhaust system other than side pipes would be an issue either.

Much more stable than a non symmetrical lift for longer vehicles like pickup trucks etc. Since the lifts arms are in the middle.

They are repairable with out digging anything up. The current shop I work in we are just starting to have to replace some of them for being worn out at around the 20 year mark. They bring in a new "Cassette" unbolt the arms, and the top plates. Use a fork lift to lift the old cassette out. and drop the new one in. We are a very busy shop open 6 days a week. The average homeowner or even serious hobby shop would never wear one of these out.

The only downside I can think of would be initial cost of installation. I would think you would want to pay someone to do it, I don't think it is a job for even the handiest of homeowners. But once it's installed anyone who can work on their own cars could do just about any repairs it might ever need, but I doubt you would need to.

Twin above ground post lifts are economical to install, its what I have in my home work shop, but I would much prefer the in ground lift the OP is considering.

If you haven't poured the floor yet, get with the lift install company, they can work with whomever is pouring the concrete and mock up the lifts in place before the pour. I have seen it done at a dealer I worked at that built us a new shop. It should save some on the installation costs. And make for a cleaner install, otherwise they do have to dig out a pretty big hole, then re concrete around it. You would also want to plan where you want to control to be mounted since they will also need to concrete in a tube to run the hose from the wall mounted pump to the lift.

To reiterate for the TLDR crowd. Single downside to this lift is installation cost, after that almost zero downside to using it. Coming from a tech with over 25 years working under cars and trucks.

 

[58Yeoman]

When I was working as a mechanic in the 70's, I was the transmission guy and I had a two post inground lift. But, it was one for the rear axle and one for the front. The front was adjustable, the rear wasn't. That's the kind of lift I'd like now, but with the new cars, it wouldn't work. Of course it would work nicely for my 58 Chevy, 63 Ford and 14 Tacoma, but not the Escape. I've got so much stuff in my shop now, that I wouldn't have room for an above floor lift, not to mention the door banging problem.

 

[rnpatrick]

I have been a mechanic in dealerships for over 25 years now. I have worked on cars/trucks using single post in ground air/hydraulic lifts, 2 post air/hydraulic, 2 post symmetrical and non symmetrical above ground lifts, 4 post lifts, and in ground dual front/back air over/hydraulic lifts ( mostly for trucks, lifts from the axles) and I can tell you in general usage the in ground electric lifts like the OP posted are by far the best to work under.

The in ground portion of the lift is entirely contained in a sealed container, one poster said it is fiberglass, I thought it is plastic, but I could be wrong. No danger what so ever of oil getting into the ground. The lift is powered by the same type of pump as a twin post electric lift. And it is mounted on the wall wherever convenient. Uses air pressure to open the lift locks, so a loss of pressure locks the lift to keep it from falling and the locks are automatically engaged. Powered by 220v electric.

There is no repairs on any car I can think of that would be blocked by the arms or posts. Possibly installing running boards, or nerf bars would be a bit of a hassle. But still doable. No exhaust system other than side pipes would be an issue either.

Much more stable than a non symmetrical lift for longer vehicles like pickup trucks etc. Since the lifts arms are in the middle.

They are repairable with out digging anything up. The current shop I work in we are just starting to have to replace some of them for being worn out at around the 20 year mark. They bring in a new "Cassette" unbolt the arms, and the top plates. Use a fork lift to lift the old cassette out. and drop the new one in. We are a very busy shop open 6 days a week. The average homeowner or even serious hobby shop would never wear one of these out.

The only downside I can think of would be initial cost of installation. I would think you would want to pay someone to do it, I don't think it is a job for even the handiest of homeowners. But once it's installed anyone who can work on their own cars could do just about any repairs it might ever need, but I doubt you would need to.

Twin above ground post lifts are economical to install, its what I have in my home work shop, but I would much prefer the in ground lift the OP is considering.

If you haven't poured the floor yet, get with the lift install company, they can work with whomever is pouring the concrete and mock up the lifts in place before the pour. I have seen it done at a dealer I worked at that built us a new shop. It should save some on the installation costs. And make for a cleaner install, otherwise they do have to dig out a pretty big hole, then re concrete around it. You would also want to plan where you want to control to be mounted since they will also need to concrete in a tube to run the hose from the wall mounted pump to the lift.

To reiterate for the TLDR crowd. Single downside to this lift is installation cost, after that almost zero downside to using it. Coming from a tech with over 25 years working under cars and trucks.

Mosby - thank you for taking the time to write all that up. You had some really good points and if I can afford it will go the in ground route.

 

[gnpenning]

When I first saw this post old memories of working for a dealership many years ago resurfaced. Almost all bad. The soil corroded the air and hydraulic lines. Many leaks and repairs. Not to mention having it drop to the
Lock and even jumping when going up. The thing was a death wish. After reading about it being a self contained unit omitting some of the failures of old I find it interesting. The concerns I would have, not knowing how the top is sealed would be, if changing oil and you have a spill or when washing or dripping snow, can any get in the"cassette" or box. If so do you have access to clean it out? What is the access for repairs or possible maintenance?

 

[ManOnTheCouch]

Couch is looking at it wrong. The posts of that lift go outside of the car, not under the middle like the 1950s service station oil change lifts where either a single or dual post was under the car.

My only comment for any in ground lift is that you better have a real good oil containment system. Our vehicle service area of the engine lab pulled one for replacement. It had been in the ground for fewer than ten years, but we could no longer get parts for it.

Ended up having to remediate tons of soil because the seals leaked hydraulic fluid and the containment didn’t hold. Costs were in the tens of thousands of dollars.

You're right. My view of it was off by 90 degrees. Thanks for the correction. There wouldn't be any obstruction by driving between them rather than over them.

 

[pbon]

You're right. My view of it was off by 90 degrees. Thanks for the correction. There wouldn't be any obstruction by driving between them rather than over them.

Correct, when the lift is retracted into the ground and the arms pulled sideways to behind the posts/plates. When the lift is raised, the posts are essentially under the sides of the car. The dimensional diagram for one shows this:

https://www.bestbuyautoequipment.co...MI_4O04PTx2wIViVuGCh3qZQ47EAQYASABEgInB_D_BwE

 

[MikeNEOH]

A shop I rented had a Challenger EX1020 10K in it and it was fantastic. Never had an issue with it and fully intended to put one in my outbuilding currently being erected. Once the budget was worked out though, I ended up putting in an Atlas FM9SL scissor lift.

For what I use it for, it will work fine but I could see some access issues for certain tasks. But I love that the scissor lifts leave the floor completely clear for what activity is happening that day. Trade-offs either way...

 

[9C1]

The Community College I attend, and taught at, has five of these lifts by Rotary. They came with a fiberglass containment to prevent ground contamination. There are no access issues to the underside of cars or trucks. I think our units are 9000 lb capacity, but I haven't had reason to look in a while.

The posts are near the edge of most vehicles and there is a plate over the posts that the vehicle has to be motored over. Not a big deal unless one is pushing a disabled vehicle. Sometimes the lifts fail to go all the way down and getting the vehicle over those plates can be problematic until we get the lift serviced. I am not sure what causes this, but it is an issue from time to time. Additionally the few occasions we have to put pick-up trucks on them the wheel width is tight between the pushed back arms. One of the students has a 1/2 ton Ram that just fits on the width. I don't know what model our lifts are, so that is something to check if you are going to put a truck on there regularly.

One of the lifts was low enough I could get the arms under my 2008 Corvette, but it locked in the up position one day (low fluid and inexperienced operator. We had to use the fork lift from the maintenance shop to get the lift & car off the locks). After it was serviced it never again went low enough for the Corvette, and I have to drive the car onto 2x10s to get it up enough to get the arms under it.

As you can gather we have the lifts serviced professionally, and I expect you will be relegated to that for most if not all situations. They are not a DIY tool.

We used to have an in-ground two post with the posts under the car as described by Mosby above. The front post moved to allow one to get the posts under RWD cars/trucks of different wheelbases. It was great for them, but as more and more cars are FWD and it had no containment; it had to go. It was a huge mess getting it out. Back hoe and weeks of work. Not something I would want to pay for.

I like these in-ground two posts for a variety of undercar work. As has been repeatedly said: the install cost is the big factor. Maintenance will be costly as well, but you likely will use it less than we do and you might take better care of it than most of our students do. If you can afford it, co for it. You will like it.

 

[jtbinvalrico]

To me, everything after a proper two-post is a compromise. As we (and I) try to stuff these things into our slices of suburbia and leave room for the wife to park next to it each night, something’s gotta give.

lol....I can just see my wife tripping over the arms of the in-ground cassette unit and falling into her car! I’d never hear the end of it. So my compromise is the scissor.

OP....or anyone else, would it be possible to recess the cassette to cause the arms to be flush with the floor when not in use? Or maybe that would create a fall hazard for the user when the lift was in use....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Falcon67]

LOL, probably did look at it wrong. That said, I have no issues with my two post and the posts are not in the way, nor the arms. Yes, I have tripped over the arms once in a while but Chief Fumblethumbs has also tripped over the riding lawn mower, the dragster, the...

I could park two cars in the shop before the lift, and can park two in there after.

 

[Bretny]

Dont do an inground lift! I use to work in a building built in the mid 80s. After about 20yrs those lifts were nothing but a EPA hazard. Oil pipes leaking into the pits/ground. Cylinders so pitted they would loose oil or get stuck so you couldnt get a car off.

I worked in that building for another 9 yrs. Out of the 9 lifts 1 was working when i left.
Any maintenance and checks that are easy on a above ground are almost impossible on an in ground. Dont fix whats not broken my friend.

 

[pbon]

The issues from the old days are real but should no longer exist with the modern cassette style in ground lifts.

 

[nes999]

At our other location we have two of them. One they use for trucks the other they leave wood on to lift carts/lawn mowers etc. I love when I get sent over there. Sometimes its hard to get out of the bigger trucks on our two posts but the in ground lifts solve that issue.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

 

[zkdiesel]

They are the best, only reason I do not have one is I don constant cab removal of trucks and it won’t work for that application near as easy as my conventional two posts.