Insl-x GarageGuard water base Epoxy?

[CLL]

Hi all,

I am thinking to paint my garage floor recently. The hardware shop here only sells Insl-x GarageGuard water base Epoxy. Any good or bad comments on this product? From Amazon one review was found but it was only a one-star very bad comment.

Just would like to check on a few things as well:
a) Can I air spray the water base Epoxy? I am not sure I like to use the roller.
b) Do I need a primer for water base Epoxy to prevent bubbling?
c) Do I need a top clear coat on top of this GarageGuard stuff to prevent pickup in future?
d) My garage has the concrete lip extending to the driveway and exposed to sunshine. I understand the epoxy will be chalked under direct sunlight. What do this "chalk" mean? Just getting dull or peel off? What if I apply clear coating on that of it?

This is my first post here in GJ. Thanks in advance for all your help.

 

[dandan111]

I don't know the brand but everyone says the water based stuff is not good.

 

[CLL]

I don't know the brand but everyone says the water based stuff is not good.

Thanks Dandan. Do you know the link of some of the discussions regarding the negativity of water based Epoxy? I tried to search but couldn't find much.

 

[dandan111]

I don't. Tire pick up seems to be the problem I have heard. Go back to amazon and read reviews of other water based epoxy.
I would roll the product on you will get better coverage and primer seems to be good insurance against bubbling.
I didn't use primer and had no problems however many guys aren't so lucky.

 

[Voi]

Not familiar with this product but I believe some of these waterborne garage coatings are fairly low in solids and use aziridine or isocyanate hardeners.

If the latter is true for this product a forced air respirator might be recommended when spraying assuming they're like other isocyanate activated coatings.

I'm also making a semi-educated guess that airless would be recommended over air spraying.

The low solids simply means you're getting less material for your buck.

 

[dmeadow]

Search for comments on Rustoleum versus Rustoleum Pro. The former is water based and the latter is not.

I used the water-based on a garage floor and it suffered from pick up from hot tires.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Less solids, means less material on the ground.
Wearing faster, less hide, etc...

If prepared correctly and what you have is actually epoxy and not a glorified paint it should not be hurt by hot tires.

Apply a primer, base coat and clear coat for maximum protection.

Remember, that you will do the same prep for the wb as the preferred 100 percent solids, so think about your plan.

 

[dcs Inc]

A high solids water based epoxy on well prepped concrete (that is spiraled ground) will not peal. Apply a high wear urethane top coat and you have a very good thin mil surface. Not as good as a thicker mil 100% solids epoxy application but it is less expensive.

 

[CLL]

A high solids water based epoxy on well prepped concrete (that is spiraled ground) will not peal. Apply a high wear urethane top coat and you have a very good thin mil surface. Not as good as a thicker mil 100% solids epoxy application but it is less expensive.

Thanks all of you providing me more information.

For the urethane top coat, I don't find their information a lot. Does it the same as polyurethane coat. Are they solvent based? If so, this top coat can work with water based epoxy? Do I need to wait 24 hours after finished my second coat of epoxy to coat urethane paint?

The technical datasheet from GarageGuard says that dry film thickness of single coat is 25 to 32 mils. Does that mean it is not 100% solid epoxy? If I coat 2 layer, total thickness will be around 50 to 60mils. Would that be thick enough to last say 10 years?

Sorry for asking so many questions. Appreciate all your help.

thanks,

 

[Voi]

The technical datasheet from GarageGuard says that dry film thickness of single coat is 25 to 32 mils. Does that mean it is not 100% solid epoxy?

Do they list what wet film thickness? Is so divide the dry film thickness by the wet film thickness, multiply that by 100, and you will have the percent solids by volume.

I've seen waterbornes as low as 28% but most are closer to 50%.

 

[CLL]

Do they list what wet film thickness? Is so divide the dry film thickness by the wet film thickness, multiply that by 100, and you will have the percent solids by volume.

I've seen waterbornes as low as 28% but most are closer to 50%.

Thanks Voi. My apology for making a mistake on the dry film thickness. Below is the correct one: Wet: 5.3 to 6.4 mils and Dry: 2.7 to 3.2 mils.

So if I divide the dry by the wet, it is roughly 50%. Is this a good Epoxy?

More details of the Insl-X GG info:

RESIN TYPE: Amine Adduct Epoxy
VOLUME SOLIDS: 50.5 ± 1.0% Mixed (Varies by color and base)
WT. PER GALLON: 11.0 lbs. Mixed
MIX RATIO: 3:1 (Prepackaged in proper ratios – Mixing partial kits not recommended)
INDUCTION TIME: 30 Min. @ 77°F
POT LIFE: 8 hrs. @ 55°F / 4 hrs. @ 77°F / 2 hrs. @100°F
FLASH POINT: 200°F. or greater (TT-P-141, Method 4293)
GLOSS: 35 - 55 units @ 60°
FILM THICKNESS: Wet: 5.3 to 6.4 mils Dry: 2.7 to 3.2 mils

 

[CLL]

For the urethane top coat, I don't find their information a lot. Does it the same as polyurethane coat. Are they solvent based? If so, this top coat can work with water based epoxy? Do I need to wait 24 hours after finished my second coat of epoxy to coat urethane paint?

I found these two products from my local shop. One is Urethane coat. The other one is polyurethane coat. Please advice which is the right one for top coat. Thanks.

a) Mastershield UA20 Urethane Acrylic
USES
As a high gloss clear sealer over concrete, Stencilcrete,
Resurfacing Systems, Stampcrete & Mastershield M90.
Advantages:
* Non yellowing
* Very good solvent and chemical resistance
* Long pot life
Description:
Mastershield UA20 Urethane Acrylic is a clear straw
coloured two pack sealer with good wear and chemical
resistance.
Properties:
Solids: 39+- 2% w/w
Specific Gravity: 0.99 (mixed A + B)
Tack free time @ 25°C: 30 min - 2 hours
(depending on conditions)
Pot Life @ 25°C: Approx 4 - 8 hours
Film properties after mixing
A + B and cured 7 days
Appearance clear
Flexibility semi rigid
Weathering Resistance: Excellent- non yellowing

b) Lustreseal Polyurethane M20
Uses:
Lustreseal Polyurethane M20 is a high build coating,
formulated for both interior and exterior application to
provide a clear, high gloss, high abrasion resistant finish to
concrete surfaces for high trafficable areas.
Advantages:
Lustreseal Polyurethane M20 has a high build gloss finish
when dry. It cures quickly and is suitable for use over a
range of temperatures and has UV protection added. More
scratch resistant than acrylic sealers. Certain anti graffiti
capabilities tyre marks easier to remove, longer life span
then acrylic sealers.
Description:
Clear liquid with slight yellow tinge and a pungent odour. It
is a single pack, high performance, moisture curing
polyurethane.
Properties:
Colour: Straw coloured
ResinType: Single pack industrial grade self
curing system.
Coverage Rate: Approximately 5m² to 10m² per coat
dependent on surface texture.
Re-CoatTime: 6 – 16 hours, depending on
temperature.
S.G: 0.98 (9.8 kg / 10 litre)
NCO: 2.8 – 3.1

 

[Voi]

Thanks Voi. My apology for making a mistake on the dry film thickness. Below is the correct one: Wet: 5.3 to 6.4 mils and Dry: 2.7 to 3.2 mils.

So if I divide the dry by the wet, it is roughly 50%. Is this a good Epoxy?

Both 2.7/5.3 & 3.2/6.4 equal 0.5 rounded so yes, that epoxy is 50% solids by volume.

You might compare the cost per gallon of this stuff to something with 100% solids.

For example, if this waterborne is $80 per gallon (total of part A & B) and you can get a 100% solids epoxy for $100 per gallon (again, total of part A & B), you'd be getting twice as much epoxy for only 25% more money.

With a 100% solids epoxy the dry film thickness is going to equal the wet film thickness because there is no carrier or solvent to evaporate.

If you find one, you should also look at the total dry film thickness they recommend for a garage floor.

Now, with that aside, if the waterborne is easier to apply there might be some value there, making it worth the greater cost for the actual solids. Also, this doesn't assume that the actuall epoxy portion of each would be equal in durability. You'd have to get the advice from someone with more expertise than I on that.

 

[CLL]

Now, with that aside, if the waterborne is easier to apply there might be some value there, making it worth the greater cost for the actual solids. Also, this doesn't assume that the actuall epoxy portion of each would be equal in durability. You'd have to get the advice from someone with more expertise than I on that.

Thanks again Voi for your inputs.

 

[CLL]

Thanks again Voi for your inputs.

I just called up local construction supplies shop and discussed about their Urethane Acrylic and Lustreseal Polyurethane products as the top clear coating of my epoxy floor.

The guy I talked to was not particular helpful as he rushed to get out of the door as it was business hour closed. Anyway he was direct and honest though.

He told me that these Urethane and Polyurethane would not work on my epoxy floor as they could not be able to apply on "painted floor". They need porous and unpainted floor. I tried to explain to him that it would be freshly painted epoxy (i.e. within 12 to 24 hours) but this guy told me no way I could get good bite of the two coatings.

Also although in this forum almost everyone suggested to have top clear coat (Urethane type) on top of epoxy coat, my local forum people suggested no need for top coat. I am now very confused. Top coat or not top coat?

I am also wondering as Insl-X (an Benjamin Moore Company) GarageGuard Epoxy is an american product, how come no one seems to use it before? Is Insl-X a reputable business/brand in US?

Thanks,

 

[Voi]

A lot of people topcoat epoxy coatings with polyurethane. I think primarily for UV protection and maybe future repairability? I'm sure there is a polyurethane top coat that is compatible with 2K waterborne epoxies.

I think your best bet is to really get lost in some of the posts here in the flooring forum. When you find posts from some of the pros click on their profile and search other posts of theirs. There have been so many discussions on this. I'm sure you'll find the info you need.

I would also find some of the threads that compared the Rustoleum solvent based and waterborne epoxies. I believe they were mentioned earlier in this thread.

 

[ChrisBrooks]

If you don't mind, I'd like to add my two cents. I bought the epoxy gray, but elected to use Kemiko Acid Stain, then the the sealer. The good thing about this is you can add sealer over-and-over to get depth and waxing can avoid scratching. You will never lift the stain from the cement. You either wax-buff or in my shop, I just add another sealer coat every two years or so. //http://www.artisticconcretedesign.com/id859.htm.

This is not my shop but it looks just like this (without the middle design). Beleive me, it handles anything I put on it.

 

[CLL]

If you don't mind, I'd like to add my two cents. I bought the epoxy gray, but elected to use Kemiko Acid Stain, then the the sealer. The good thing about this is you can add sealer over-and-over to get depth and waxing can avoid scratching. You will never lift the stain from the cement. You either wax-buff or in my shop, I just add another sealer coat every two years or so. //http://www.artisticconcretedesign.com/id859.htm.

This is not my shop but it looks just like this (without the middle design). Beleive me, it handles anything I put on it.

Thanks ChrisBrooks. This can be a better approach.

For the epoxy way, it is just too confusing and probably need a pro to get the job done.

 

[dandan111]

What is the end result you want? It's only as confusing as you want to make it. I degreesed,acid washed and put down rustoleum pro. No big deal.
I did not do a clear coat but that would be just one more step. It's really not that hard.

 

[CLL]

What is the end result you want? It's only as confusing as you want to make it. I degreesed,acid washed and put down rustoleum pro. No big deal.
I did not do a clear coat but that would be just one more step. It's really not that hard.

Doing the cleaning, etching, coating, etc is not hard as you said. But finding and choosing the right products is damn hard. If u know what u r doing and did it before, u already know which products to use. Everything is easy. For a DIYer like me, from choosing the right degreaser, acid, concrete filler, primer, epoxy coat, top coat, non skid additive, grinder, squeegee, roller, ..... All are hard choice cause I simply don't know whether they would work for each others. It is also a locality issue. U may find it easy to buy all the things u talk about in your local shop but it can be ****** hard to find in some other places.

 

[dcs Inc]

Where you located?

 

[CLL]

Where you located?

Brisbane australia.

 

[dcs Inc]

I've allways wanted to check out Australia. I had one of my trained installers just return from Melbourne. She went over at Elite Crete of Australia's request to do a floor mural for a local fish market. Here's a link that show's some pretty cool photo's of the finished project.

http://www.elitecreteaustralia.com....orative-concrete-mural-on-a-concrete-sidewalk