Inspections and Permits Questions

[Bull]

I've always wondered about something. Let's say you live in a house that has had work done in the past without a permit, either while you were there or by a previous owner or occupant. If you then decide to pull a permit for a new project, is the inspector going to be looking around going "Hey, this looks newer over here, but we don't have a permit on file. What's the deal?" Or, "Hey, I'm here to inspect this shed, but that thing over there doesn't look up to code."

In other words, is it a risk to take a permit out when work has been done without a permit in the past?

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

Not sure what local laws are, but generally, yes, from what Ive learned, once they are asked on your property, things can go down hill, if they start looking around at other stuff, and asking questions. Im sure others will chime in.

I spent 10 years, as part of my job, dealing with local inspectors, and they can be just as power hungry and corrupt as any politician. They can also be a super pain in the ***, or a real asset (not too often I might add..).

I was witness to a Mayor, a City Manger, the Fire Chief and the Head inspector all of the same city, screaming at each other in my store (that I was building for a client). It was a power struggle, the head inspector was trying to pull rank over the Fire Chief on a fire prevention code. It was a "event" in the making, months or years before I ever laid foot in that town, the show down just happened to happen right in front of me.

Ive also had to go to the state inspector in a conflict with a local electrical inspector, because he wanted it "his way" even though we built it to code and the stamped print. I lost and had to re do it.

Ive alos been "shaken down" buy a building department in the state or Oregon. Inspector gave me a verbal "OK" to occupy, and then fined me $750 when we occupied it because I didnt buy a $75 temp occupancy permit. He didnt mention I needed to do that. It was dishonest and intentional.

Re-habbing the farm and being zoned AG, Ive needed no permits, due to the fact that Im the owner doing all the work. But I do need a permit for a fence and a cattle gate, which I will not apply for until Im completely done with everything, because I dont want to give them any reason to see anything at anytime for any reason. Call me paranoid, and Ive got good reason to be.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Depends on the location , what the code is and who the official is.

Some inspectors might make you bring the entire thing up to code, others might just look at what you're doing (less work for them).

I know when some commericial places change some things, they have to bring everything up to the fire code. It's not unusual to see things done after the inspector has been there and gone.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I was witness to a Mayor, a City Manger, the Fire Chief and the Head inspector all of the same city, screaming at each other in my store (that I was building for a client). It was a power struggle, the head inspector was trying to pull rank over the Fire Chief on a fire prevention code. It was a "event" in the making, months or years before I ever laid foot in that town, the show down just happened to happen right in front of me.

who won ?

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

...is it a risk to take a permit out when work has been done without a permit in the past?

Generally, no.
But! Yeah, there's a but- it just depend on the AHJ you're dealing with. The more information you can provide for a permit (work to be performed) narrows the scope of work. So prying eyes have no reason or authority to roam.

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

who won ?

The head inspector won. I had to tear out the sheet rock lid in the front of the store, and add a head. The space was clearly covered by the surrounding heads, the math all worked, layout matched the print, fire inspector already had signed off. Store was painted, and stocked, and ready to open, when the **** head decided that he wanted a head there.

Thats why the mayor and city manager where there. The client jumped in the mayor's ****, and was livid (rightfully), because they had already spent $ on advertising their grand opening, staff hired, manager hired, and then **** weed decides in the 11th hour he didnt like the layout of the sprinklers. It was a high end retail clothing store. Clothes where already on the racks. It was "go time"

Apparently the stamped print was little more than for "suggestions" as to the how and where the heads where to be placed.

 

[burleymike]

When I upgraded my electrical service the state inspector saw some of the mickey mouse **** the original owner did in the disconnect box and asked me if it was connected to anything I use. When I told him it was not he said "good because thar **** makes me nervous, how about you pull that junk out and put a knockout plug In the hole." After that he signed the sticker and I was on my way. He was really busy and covers a large geographic area so I dont think is cared to nose around.

 

[StaggeringGoat]

It's just like dealing with the police - don't give/show them any more information than you have to. Even if you aren't guilty they can find something to stick you with if they're having a bad day. If there's anything "funky" going on in the corner, cover it up!

 

[MrMark]

I suppose it's possible, but I would think very rare. It IS IMpossible around my city. The inspectors have no idea what has been permitted or hasn't been permitted. I'm not sure they could even figure that out if they wanted to, and if the building was old, I'm sure they couldn't. They are there to do a specific thing and that is all they care about. And, they only act on complaints here.

 

[darkk]

Around here, they only inspect what they came for unless they see something that is an obvious safety hazard.

 

[Wes Tex]

This is a very interesting line of questions. When I built my non-attached garage, I installed a separate electric service meter just for the garage to avoid questions about the service to my house. The electrical contractor was concerned that connecting into my existing house service would trigger an upgrade to all of my outside service boxes. The house has been added onto twice and passed inspection both times, but there are three boxes outside the house. The garage passed inspection and no questions were asked about the house. I do get to explain to the service provider whenever I change providers that I do have two meters. (Texas unregulated electricity is another topic.)

 

[Toomanytools?]

I've always wondered about something. Let's say you live in a house that has had work done in the past without a permit, either while you were there or by a previous owner or occupant. If you then decide to pull a permit for a new project, is the inspector going to be looking around going "Hey, this looks newer over here, but we don't have a permit on file. What's the deal?" Or, "Hey, I'm here to inspect this shed, but that thing over there doesn't look up to code."

In other words, is it a risk to take a permit out when work has been done without a permit in the past?

Yep it depends what is being inspected, and local codes. Do you have a specific concern? If you are having the inspector look at the wiring for your new stove in your un-permited kitchen remodel, don't walk him past the open walls and pile of new plumbing parts.
If there is a new or newer garden shed on the lot I doubt it would be a worry ( never know though). If he walks up your stairs and the shining fresh redwood handrail is too low and baluster spacing is wide enough for a bowling ball he may say something.
Like someone said the less they have to question the better.

 

[denis4x4]

I recently had a final inspection on an addition and the inspector told me that fifty percent of his time was spent on clearing up projects that were never permited. These projects were holding up pending home sales.

 

[ket-tek]

I've had great luck with them just walking in, looking at what the permit was for and leaving. No snooping or small talk, just in/out and pass/fail..

 

[GarageEnvy]

They certainly can in my area. I've dealt with properties that have ended up in foreclosure because an inspector found unpermitted additions and gave a 90 day notice to bring it to code or remove it.

I was VERY nervous about this exact same scenario when I built my garage. The prior owners enclosed a breezeway, added a bathroom and enclosed a patio. All of it was done poorly and we had rebuilt all of it prior to the garage. So basically it looked like we were the people who did it. I had considered doing some interior work at the same time but didn't do it because I wanted to keep the inspector out of the house. I consulted with a general contractor friend who gave me some very good advice. Because our back wall is all glass, an inside peek was inevitable if he went in the back. So I had all the blinds drawn on the front of the house, was rarely on site (and almost never available) during inspections AND we built a temporary fence using the 9' tall roll of Tyvek house wrap. It kept the inspector in the garage area.

I failed my final inspection because the electrician failed to put one GFCI plug on one circuit in the garage. The return inspector re-checked every single thing. He didn't just check the plug. I built an unpermitted shed in my setbacks that was oversized. Part of the condition for the final was removal of the shed (or getting a variance and permitting it). Final inspector 1 never mentioned it. Final inspector 2 wanted to check on it. I hadn't done anything with it. Inspector 2 opened the rear garage door without asking me and met my 90 pound lab who doesn't like strangers in the back yard. Door slammed closed. Final signed off. Good dog!

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

In general, I have no problem with permits, permitting, and the whole process, and I get it, I clearly understand why we have it, but as some one who has traveled the country dealing with them, at least 3 different inspectors, at a minimum of weekly, Id say the wrong people are attracted to the job.

Ive worked with some really great guys (handful), and Ive worked with some real "Napoleons" and a little bit of everything in between. I even had to work with a Asian in Silicone Valley that spoke damn near no English, let alone was he able to distinguish his **** hole from a tea cup. Would love to hear the story on how he got his job..but that was the California, so no surprises there.

 

[bdkruger1]

I work as an inspector. I only look at what I'm there to look at. If I do happen to spot something dangerous I inform the owner and explain why, but I don't write it up. I've always worked by the saying,"pass what you can, and only fail what you have to.

That said, I do work with a lot of inspectors who believe that once they're in the door, they are their to look at everything. Absolutely drives me nuts. It's definitely a power trip thing for a lot of guys.

 

[tcianci]

There is hardly a property in the world that doesn't have some code infractions. I wouldn't worry about opening a can of worms. The older the house, the more likely you are to have things that aren't up to snuff, but that's because "snuff" changes constantly and buildings don't. I did a bathroom a few years back for a customer and the back steps of the house were clearly done incorrectly... three seven inch risers and one 3 inch riser. They were a real hazard to use. The inspector got there and said WOAH! where did these things come from? I shrugged since I was there to remodel the bathroom and it was obvious that the steps had been that way for years. He just shook his head and walked away.

 

[G_P]

Here they love to check on sheds and other outbuildings and porches/patios.

If they come on your property for an inspection they WILL check for permits and zoning approval for anything they see outside.

Some have been even known to drive up and down streets looking for new sheds/patios/etc and then coming back demanding removal or payment if no permit was pulled.

Its a small town here and its more about revenue than safety. You can get almost any variance you want as long as it does not interfere with the lives of any of the rich well connected people in town. If it does then forget it. they will find any reason to deny your permits.

 

[Vegaman_Dan]

When home searching, I called the building office and had the inspector come out and take a look at a property I was interested in, asking their advice on how to resolve a code issue with converting a rec room back into the garage it was meant to be. It was a novel experience for the inspector being asked how he would like me to proceed and in what steps as to make everything right by them. It was appreciated and set the tone for a good relationship.

I didn't buy that home, but have since and that relationship is worth it. No longer confrontational or punitive.

 

[Racecarl]

I used Vegaman Dan's approach with our building inspector. The inspector started off right away grumbling when I stated I was going to be my own general contractor. Then he wanted to know who I was going to hire to build my garage, and got even more grumpy when I said I was going to build it myself. I could see this meeting going horribly wrong in a hurry, especially when he was pretty much telling me I could not build on my own property using my own labor.

I pulled out my newly purchased building code book and calmly stated that I had read the entire book and NO WHERE did it say that I could not build my own building on my own property. I then showed him the plans I had drawn on my DeltaCad program, and his tone softened. I then told him that I was going to build my garage to comply with the code book currently adopted by our city, and that if I had any questions that I would ask him before proceeding. I followed the check-off procedure on the building permit and we ended up getting along fine. He would give me a hard time occasionally for how long my construction process took (3 years) but I would always tell him that I worked for a living like he used to and that things would get done when they got done. It must have worked because I didn't have any problems.

 

[dtt454]

back a few years ago when i pulled a permit to put my power line underground and add a padio i asked the inspector beforehand if i should be worried about an attached carport that i suspect was built without a permit by previous owners, his response "just dont ever tear it down" i take that to mean he was only interested in what i was doing at that time. this was also in 2008 when not alot of other building projects were going on that i knew of. so i guess like the others said it depends on the person.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Depends on the location , what the code is and who the official is.

Some inspectors might make you bring the entire thing up to code, others might just look at what you're doing (less work for them).

I know when some commericial places change some things, they have to bring everything up to the fire code. It's not unusual to see things done after the inspector has been there and gone.

^^^^ Pretty much what he said... Each area has their own level of how strict they want things done... It pretty much depends on the inspector... If they want to be a ***** they will nit pick every last little thing, dig up your record to see what they have on file, etc, etc...

I've seen the county use satellite photography with software so they know when someone adds on to their house or puts in a pool or whatever... If they can see it from outside they sure as heck want to tax it, and probably get some permit fees for it too...

Sometimes inside things are considered "grandfathered" in as long as you don't touch them. I've seen whole facilities demolished in California except for paint booth's, then they build a new building around the old paint booth just because it was grandfathered and they wouldn't be able to build a new one otherwise.

Fire Code is another issue in itself... Sometimes if it's a serious hazard they will make you bring it all up to code. If it's something minor and it's been like that forever then they might let it slide.

Also doing work yourself on your own property can be different than if you hire people. For instance, it is legal here to do your OWN electrical work (obviously even if you aren't a licensed electrician), however if you have someone else do it, they BETTER be licensed by the state.

 

[amolaver]

just to add on to EOC Jason's comments. i got my 40x60 shed permitted because i knew i was going to need separate electric service, and the power company wouldn't touch it w/o a permit. as i was navigating the waters of getting said permit (a year-long nightmare), i discovered they are indeed using satellite images (think google earth) specifically for sheds/outbuildings and pools. and when they find them, you get a couple of ugly choices to make in an awful hurry - fill in the pool or pay the penalties, back taxes, permit fees, etc. knock down the shed or pay penalties/taxes/permit fees. and i believe you only get 30 days - not sure if there would be a way to contest it to extend that window.

ahm

 

[wedge40]

I'm in the process of getting cement poured in the garage/barn I had built last year. I'm wanting two gray water lines, water and sewer line placed, but not hooked up till sometime next year. Right now I've got a "buddy" checking on weather I should get permits or not.
Next year I want to put in new septic system so I know I'll have inspectors out for that. My current tank is 300' from the house and hasn't been cleaned since it was put in 20 years ago. Drain line runs through the woods so very difficult to get truck down there. The septic problems I have I blame the county inspector for not doing his job 20 years ago.

Wedge

 

[Ajustable]

When home searching, I called the building office and had the inspector come out and take a look at a property I was interested in, asking their advice on how to resolve a code issue with converting a rec room back into the garage it was meant to be. It was a novel experience for the inspector being asked how he would like me to proceed and in what steps as to make everything right by them. It was appreciated and set the tone for a good relationship.

I didn't buy that home, but have since and that relationship is worth it. No longer confrontational or punitive.

That's a great idea Vegaman Dan, I think I will try that for my Garage build, the Inspector is due out to my place for final inspection for the mudroom.

I want to rebuild, a shabbily built lean-too, attached to the barn. I will ask for advice then. Thanks

 

[joe_padavano]

As others have noted, this is very location-specific and even inspector-specific. The worst thing that can happen where I live is that you will be required to get an as-built inspection and fix anything not to code. I HAVE seen the inspectors get VERY nit-picky in those situations, however, sort of levying punitive damages.