Install AC myself?

[Innovate1]

Planning to do as much of a furnace/AC install as possible myself. The furnace and duct work with gas and electric is no issue - I have done that before. The AC is harder due to refrigerant. Have heard it is possible with precharged lines to DIY but don't know much more than that. The inside and outside units will be close together. Furnace will be hung from 14' ceiling and need to put furnace a little ways from the wall so perhaps a 25' line set.

Is this a realistic DIY project or should I get an HVAC company to do the AC refrigerant part after I mount all the components?

 

[dcg9381]

I've done ductless - I've installed 3 units total, but I had some HVAC tools from automotive. No real HVAC experience. To DIY - you'll need a few hundred dollars worth of tools and some patience.

The downside of DIY is outside of one specific brand, your warranty will be useless unless you pay an installer to "commission" it for you. Costs of commissioning - meaning vacuum, check for leaks, etc seem to range from about $150 (if you're ready to go) to $500+ for an hour of work. You'll likely need to find someone moonlighting to get it done, but it's not that hard.

Mark up on turn-key installed HVAC is huge - at least here - and I suspect it's higher in many places. So I could install 2 x 2 ton ductless units for about $2600 all in, or I could have paid a commercial company 2-3x that to do it for me end to end...

 

[SGKent]

If you don't want to take the time to learn how to size ducting, filtration, compressors, furnaces and other options then my suggestion would be to hire an HVAC company to do it all and just don't buy until you get a good price. That said, don't believe that just because someone hangs a sign over their door that says HVAC company it means they'll take the time to get those things right either.

 

[Innovate1]

I have some knowledge of the trade and already have the sizing of the units. I will probably install myself except for start up of the AC which I will get someone that does HVAC to do.

I completely agree that just because they have a sign or card that says HVAC doesn't mean they take the care to do things right. That applies to most other businesses as well. None of the people who quoted did accurate sizing and I was actually telling one of them about the sizing when they speced in a unit about twice as big as needed.

I am asking mainly about how to deal with the refrigerant issue.

 

[SGKent]

I would think if you are decided on a ductless electric system then the solution is to just get on the phone calling people and getting quotes, checking references etc..

 

[Innovate1]

This is a conventional gas furnace and AC with ducts.

 

[SGKent]

Check the ducts to be sure they are in good shape, mine needed replacement. We have 8 supply and 2 return. The lines get brazed, purged, often filled with nitrogen and purged again then a measured charge gets put in. Then the temperature differences are measured at specific spots in the lines and that determines the final charge. I am epa certified but chose to have someone else do it since my tools were all old. I paid about $600 labor to have a compressor changed and the system charged. It took about 4 hours and 2 people to do it plus that included a return call six months later to check on it. I provided the refrigerant.

 

[Innovate1]

New construction so no old ducts to check.

 

[SGKent]

New construction so no old ducts to check.

https://www.buildingincalifornia.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/duct-sizing-chart.pdf

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Buying the equipment you need to do it right is probably not any cheaper than just having someone run the lineset for you.

Tommy

 

[Innovate1]

Buying the equipment you need to do it right is probably not any cheaper than just having someone run the lineset for you.

Tommy

Yep. Totally agree on this on. Just planning to do the equipment placement install, furnace hookups, and duct work and leave the line set and refrigerant to someone else. I have some time on this after the building is finished.

 

[nsula_country]

Over the past 15 years or so I have installed about 20 split system. I'm not an HVAC trade professional. But use Industry Best Practices. The HVAC build in my signature thread I did 100% myself. When we built our house my wife and I installed all hard ducting and commissioned 2 Heat Pumps. This past fall I had to replace one of the evap coils. Coil was warrantied and I did the labor. Probably saved $1500.

I have all the tools that a HVAC tech has on the truck. All the special little tools, 5CFM vacuum pump, micron gauge, digital manifold, Oxy/Acy rig, Sheet metal tools, N2 tank. Probably use N2 more than they do.

It's not rocket science, but there is some science and physics involved. Some parts are heavy!

Agreed that if you don't have ALL the TOOLS to bend, swage, braze, evacuate or flow Nitrogen... Hire that part out.

CT

 

[Sanmiam]

Yep. Totally agree on this on. Just planning to do the equipment placement install, furnace hookups, and duct work and leave the line set and refrigerant to someone else. I have some time on this after the building is finished.

Done this before multiple times. As mentioned elsewhere if the equipment is not handy its cheaper to have the line sets brazed and charged by a pro. You will likely have trouble finding someone willing to do the work via cold-calling, and it will be comparatively expensive to complete.

Run the linesets yourself. I can count on 1 hand the number of runs I have seen that look anything to the level I would consider "professional" that were completed by professionals. The manuals from the equipment you are using should detail lineset requirements quite well. It is likely you will end up with Goodman equipment. I cannot advocate enough getting a variable speed (not two stage) furnace from them. The thermostat necessary is a tough cost to shallow ($400), but I can tell you first hand it is 100% worth it and then some.

I've never seen precharged linesets for a split system. I am doubtful they exist.

EDIT: if you run lineselts yourself get a crossbow style tube bender. They are invaluable and can be picked up on ebay for around $60-$70

 

[MattT]

Buying the equipment you need to do it right is probably not any cheaper than just having someone run the lineset for you.

If you have to buy everything, and don't have any other uses for the equipment, then yeah hire it out.

Personally I already had oxy/fuel, argon, vacuum pump and some smaller stuff like tubing cutters. So it really hasn't cost me that much to tool up for fixed HVAC linesets.

Also I'm using the tubing bender for other stuff. And have also started using the high pressure reg for other pressure testing. So that part isn't dead, fixed HVAC only, money.

 

[Countyroadtrailers]

Done this before multiple times. As mentioned elsewhere if the equipment is not handy its cheaper to have the line sets brazed and charged by a pro. You will likely have trouble finding someone willing to do the work via cold-calling, and it will be comparatively expensive to complete.

Run the linesets yourself. I can count on 1 hand the number of runs I have seen that look anything to the level I would consider "professional" that were completed by professionals. The manuals from the equipment you are using should detail lineset requirements quite well. It is likely you will end up with Goodman equipment. I cannot advocate enough getting a variable speed (not two stage) furnace from them. The thermostat necessary is a tough cost to shallow ($400), but I can tell you first hand it is 100% worth it and then some.

I've never seen precharged linesets for a split system. I am doubtful they exist.

EDIT: if you run lineselts yourself get a crossbow style tube bender. They are invaluable and can be picked up on ebay for around $60-$70

They may be rare, but pre-charged and flared linesets for split systems most definitely exist.

 

[nsula_country]

I have heard some mobile home AC linesets are precharged.

CT

 

[justinjoyal]

They may be rare, but pre-charged and flared linesets for split systems most definitely exist.

Pre-charged lines use quick-connect fittings, not flares. I have only seen them on DIY mini-splits, never on split systems and I doubt they exist.

 

[nsula_country]

Verified. Style Crest REVOLV series Mobile and Modular Home split systems have pre charged line sets.

HVAC Direct: Style Crest REVOLV, 2-4 tons, AC, HP, various furnace options.
https://hvacdirect.com/brands/brands-style-crest.html

Style Crest Corp Site
https://www.stylecrestinc.com/manufactured-housing-products/hvac/
The Corp Website shows they have split systems from 2-5 tons, 13 and 14 SEER with either sweat OR thier AccuCharge® Systems linsets.

"The most significant differentiation about Revolv® is its complete AccuCharge® Systems that deliver a factory-precise refrigerant charge, so installers are no longer forced to spend hours in the field balancing air conditioning systems."

Sounds like they found a way to install condensing units without requiring a HVAC tech. Equals lowest bidder/hack...

Research shows Style Crest is the distributor for REVOLV. REVOLV is made by Coleman. Coleman is a subsidiary of York which is a Johnson Controls company. Cannot find out what compressor they use though. Could be an LG.

CT

 

[Norcal]

Buying the equipment online usually means no warranty for the equipment so be careful.

 

[BD1]

As mentioned above, wherever you purchase equipment, verify that YOU can install. Many manufacturers state their equipment must be installed by their recognized contractor . This happened to my brother in-law . He bought online and did it himself. Had a problem and manufacturer said sorry as warranty stated to be installed by HVAC contractor.


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