Install my own generator?

[imagineer]

I recently took advantage of a sale and purchased a 24kw Generac standby generator. My plan is to have it installed and run on natural gas.

My plan however is sort of up in the air as I can’t find a Generac certified installer who will install it because they are not the seller of the unit. There is one that will install it for me, but they’re 10-12 months out on their schedule.

I’m not an electrician, but I can follow instructions. Can anyone comment if this type of install should NOT be attempted by the homeowner? FWIW, there are plenty of plumbers around that I will be farming out the gas line.

 

[tarmy]

I just had mine installed recently. I rewired the entire old home, poured the pad and buried all the conduit to serve the generator and house from the overhead pole 500’ away. I paid a professional to set the panel, 200A transfer switch and generator. He tested and looked over all my work. Fired everything up and everything works as intended. I am very handy at electrical work, but no way was I gonna mess with all the big stuff. Good luck OP….sorta depends on your expertise and local codes/conditions.

 

[yeldogt]

I recently took advantage of a sale and purchased a 24kw Generac standby generator. My plan is to have it installed and run on natural gas.

My plan however is sort of up in the air as I can’t find a Generac certified installer who will install it because they are not the seller of the unit. There is one that will install it for me, but they’re 10-12 months out on their schedule.

I’m not an electrician, but I can follow instructions. Can anyone comment if this type of install should NOT be attempted by the homeowner? FWIW, there are plenty of plumbers around that I will be farming out the gas line.

That's quite large ... is it an air cooled ?

IMO the easy way to install them is to do a full whole house and 24kw should be able to do most places. If it's a new unit it should be able to to load shedding and that is often needed to meet code requirements. Auto transfer has to do the whole house or manage the load. All electric house could exceed and need the load relays.

I did a 22k and needed a bit of load shedding a couple years ago as 22kw was the biggest air cooled at the time.

With a hole house setup the main entrance feed gets cut and the transfer switch is put in between the meter and the main panel -- you could get an electrician to do that. It is a a SE transfer setup and it can go outside .. the generator connects to the panel as well. My place had a 200 amp feed and a 200amp transfer was installed.

 

[dcg9381]

I recently took advantage of a sale and purchased a 24kw Generac standby generator. My plan is to have it installed and run on natural gas.

My plan however is sort of up in the air as I can’t find a Generac certified installer who will install it because they are not the seller of the unit. There is one that will install it for me, but they’re 10-12 months out on their schedule.

I’m not an electrician, but I can follow instructions. Can anyone comment if this type of install should NOT be attempted by the homeowner? FWIW, there are plenty of plumbers around that I will be farming out the gas line.

I bought a "used" 20KW Generac. I bought a new ATS for it and wired it all up myself. If you can install a sub-panel you're 90% of the way there... Generator just has some "control wires" between it and the ATS that are additional over installing a sub-panel.

My only real gotcha was finding a set of 240V rated control wires so I could run control through the same conduit as power.

I was pretty nervous about start up, but it works great.

I'm sure some of the Sparky's on this board can give you some help if you get stuck.

I did "load shed" modules also. My master electrician F'd those up and I had to re-do them.

If it's a new unit it should be able to to load shedding and that is often needed to meet code requirements. Auto transfer has to do the whole house or manage the load. All electric house could exceed and need the load relays.

Load shedding is pretty darn easy with Generac. They have 50A and 100A load shed modules. They do not require control wires or any interface with the generator at all. You just place them in-line with the load. I placed a 100A in-line with a sub panel that had the loads I wanted to shed.

They are essentially big relays that are self-powered from line voltage. They turn on via an internal delay timer. If they detect 59 Hz (or less) they open the relay contacts and the timer starts over.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

since we dont know your skill level we have no way of knowing if you could install it...

 

[reader2580]

If you have the knowledge and comfort level to replace a load center you could probably install a whole house generator. I installed my own standby generator, but I have a pretty good comfort level with electrical work. I would talk to your local electrical inspector about anything he/she wants to see in a generator install. My generator is only a two wire start so I was allowed to run the control wiring in the same conduit as the power so long as control wires had same insulation rating. That probably won't work with newer generators.

 

[imagineer]

since we dont know your skill level we have no way of knowing if you could install it...

To be honest, I'd much rather hand it off to a professional. I'm confident enough to add circuits to my existing panel and have done plenty, but I've no experience in messing with the main service to the house.

My question comes from nearing desperation in finding ANYONE willing to quote the install. Every local service contractor that offers or advertises 'generators' has said NO (or the functional equivalent) due to that I bought the unit myself (and not from them).

Yeldogt, I did use the Generac calculator to size the unit for my whole house and it recommended 19 - 20kw. The unit I purchased is a 24kw running on propane, but is devalued to 21kw running on natural gas. We lose power often in storms and have been getting by for years with a 9500 watt gasoline generator. In reality, the only items we NEED on the generator are fridge, freezer, well, furnace, gas water heater and (most importantly) 2 sump pumps. The desire to upgrade to a standby unit is so we can leave home with peace of mind.

 

[tester19]

Much better to install soft start on your AC. Forget the load shedding completely!

These are mandatory in my opinion when you have a whole house generator like I do. The difference is shocking as the generator does not change at all when the AC kicks in if you have these soft start modules. Easily installed on any AC.

Really these should come standard in all AC units but they do add cost.
Here is one, but there are other brands too;

AC Soft Start
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[wyliesdiesels]

To be honest, I'd much rather hand it off to a professional. I'm confident enough to add circuits to my existing panel and have done plenty, but I've no experience in messing with the main service to the house.

My question comes from nearing desperation in finding ANYONE willing to quote the install. Every local service contractor that offers or advertises 'generators' has said NO (or the functional equivalent) due to that I bought the unit myself (and not from them).

Yeldogt, I did use the Generac calculator to size the unit for my whole house and it recommended 19 - 20kw. The unit I purchased is a 24kw running on propane, but is devalued to 21kw running on natural gas. We lose power often in storms and have been getting by for years with a 9500 watt gasoline generator. In reality, the only items we NEED on the generator are fridge, freezer, well, furnace, gas water heater and (most importantly) 2 sump pumps. The desire to upgrade to a standby unit is so we can leave home with peace of mind.

well to be honest, I would say no for the same reason.

too much that could go wrong and then the blame game starts...

 

[dcg9381]

My question comes from nearing desperation in finding ANYONE willing to quote the install. Every local service contractor that offers or advertises 'generators' has said NO (or the functional equivalent) due to that I bought the unit myself (and not from them).

They want you to buy the generator from them. I can tell you from recent experience working with friends who wanted generators, the total cost of install was +100% (or more) the cost of the generator itself.

I can also tell you from working with Generac warranty support, if something goes sideways they are not going to warranty **** until you pay a service fee for someone to come out and test whatever component failed.. And if they didn't install it, most don't want to do that work either. I've had one load shed module fail. Bringing it into a local Generac dealer, they wanted about $100 to do "diagnostics" on it (basically plug it in) for it to be warrantied.

You need to find a licensed electrician that has done generator work before and wants to do a little "work on the side". I'd get it on a pad, bolted down, conduit run, as "setup" as possible to minimize costs.

 

[mark-NJ]

There's also the question of the gas line. *MANY* residences do not have the require supply volume, resulting in a need to trench out to the street connection and run a larger pipe. Not saying that's the case here...but it could be.

This is not a DIY job.

 

[larry4406]

Generac has a slick cable where all of the phase wires and control wires are all in one insulated pull. Direct bury, free wire, etc.

 

[Showkey]

There's also the question of the gas line. *MANY* residences do not have the require supply volume, resulting in a need to trench out to the street connection and run a larger pipe. Not saying that's the case here...but it could be.

This is not a DIY job.

Most NG pipes are adequate size and the utility will come and install a larger capacity meter. The meters are rated in BTU. Very unlikely the current is sized to run 24k unit.

Agree you can not install your own meter. Good news is many utilities replace the meter for a low cost service fee or even free. The monthly meter fee may go up for ever based on the size.

 

[reader2580]

There's also the question of the gas line. *MANY* residences do not have the require supply volume, resulting in a need to trench out to the street connection and run a larger pipe. Not saying that's the case here...but it could be.

This is not a DIY job.

I did all of the electrical for my Kohler standby generator, but I hired someone to run the gas. The electrical also included a lot of changes inside the house to move circuits from the main load center to a subpanel for everything that would be powered by the generator. Yes, I got an electrical permit.

 

[nadogail]

The answer to your question starts with “”It Depends”. Will you need an Electrical Permit? Can you get one, if needed.? Do you have a set of manufacturers installation instructions?

You certainly don’t expect someone to work for free or peanuts helping you play Electrician.

 

[yeldogt]

Load shedding is pretty darn easy with Generac. They have 50A and 100A load shed modules. They do not require control wires or any interface with the generator at all. You just place them in-line with the load. I placed a 100A in-line with a sub panel that had the loads I wanted to shed.

They are essentially big relays that are self-powered from line voltage. They turn on via an internal delay timer. If they detect 59 Hz (or less) they open the relay contacts and the timer starts over.

That's interesting ..... The ones from Cummings are 50a. The unit has two relays for two loads and you have to connect them to the transfer switch. The transfer switch monitors the loads. They are powdered off .. so they are not energized under normal conditions.

 

[yeldogt]

Generac has a slick cable where all of the phase wires and control wires are all in one insulated pull. Direct bury, free wire, etc.

Seems that most places allow the combined cable as long as you use the factory cable bundle ... That's what I was told by my local official and I believe that only Generac has that cable. Did not know they had a direct burry version. I ran twin conduit for mine

 

[isb cornbinder]

I recently took advantage of a sale and purchased a 24kw Generac standby generator. My plan is to have it installed and run on natural gas.

My plan however is sort of up in the air as I can’t find a Generac certified installer who will install it because they are not the seller of the unit. There is one that will install it for me, but they’re 10-12 months out on their schedule.

I’m not an electrician, but I can follow instructions. Can anyone comment if this type of install should NOT be attempted by the homeowner? FWIW, there are plenty of plumbers around that I will be farming out the gas line.

If a gen-set is not wired into a system correctly, there is a real possibility the gen-set could feed back into the shared power grid. There is the possibility of causing damage to other person's property and appliances. This is not the time to economize. Maybe you cam get one of the electricians move his schedule up if you offer $$$ome incentive.

 

[yeldogt]

Yeldogt, I did use the Generac calculator to size the unit for my whole house and it recommended 19 - 20kw. The unit I purchased is a 24kw running on propane, but is devalued to 21kw running on natural gas. We lose power often in storms and have been getting by for years with a 9500 watt gasoline generator. In reality, the only items we NEED on the generator are fridge, freezer, well, furnace, gas water heater and (most importantly) 2 sump pumps. The desire to upgrade to a standby unit is so we can leave home with peace of mind.

Mine is 22kw on propane. Do you have the transfer switch?

The proper SE exterior rated transfer switch is what you need and any pro can do that -- you don't need a generator specific sparky to install. As I said above when you have a generator it's just a case of cutting in the transfer switch between the meter and the main panel --

Most have a wire to the meter from the street and another to the panel from the meter. Easy thing to pull the wire from the main panel at the meter and wire it up to the new transfer switch near the meter -- new wire is put in between the transfer and meter.

Some situations where the wire out of the meter is directly in the wall -- there is more involved.

 

[dcg9381]

We lost power today, it's 102 outside with a high tomorrow expected of 109. Generator kicked in, but power didn't transfer. What a difference one little wire makes (I probably snagged it on the cover at one time)...

 

[nadogail]

We lost power today, it's 102 outside with a high tomorrow expected of 109. Generator kicked in, but power didn't transfer. What a difference one little wire makes (I probably snagged it on the cover at one time)...

Electrical work should be done with great care.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I recently took advantage of a sale and purchased a 24kw Generac standby generator.

Just so we're clear...does this mean you found a new one on sale at a store or supplier, or that you bought a used one being sold by a private individual?

If it's new from a supplier, can't that company do the installation? If it's used, there may or may not be any sort of warrantee that's transferrable to you, and if that's the case the electrician doesn't necessarily need to be certified by Generac - they just need to be familiar with the requirements for wiring up a generator and transfer switch. There may be detail differences between brands, but functionally they all operate pretty much the same.

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

A generator install is NOT a "thing" to learn electrical and natural gas work on.
Call (and wait for) a pro……. Your loss may be more than just financial. One wrong thing and Generac will NOT honor the warranty.

BTW! "IF" you decide to tackle a generator install by yourself make sure you obtain the proper permits and don’t get upset "IF" you fail the inspection and have to redo everything to make it right…….. I have failed a few "experienced" contractors for installing generators too close to combustable walls or not meeting minimal manufacturer clearances and everything had to be redone.

 

[reader2580]

If it's new from a supplier, can't that company do the installation? If it's used, there may or may not be any sort of warrantee that's

There are many places that sell Generac generators that can't do the installation. Heck, Menards and Home Depot will both sell you a Generac whole house generator. Costco sells Honeywell generators that are Generac inside. I bet some of the full service generator installation companies might not even sell you a generator without installation.

 

[doctorjdog]

I just had mine installed recently. I rewired the entire old home, poured the pad and buried all the conduit to serve the generator and house from the overhead pole 500’ away. I paid a professional to set the panel, 200A transfer switch and generator. He tested and looked over all my work. Fired everything up and everything works as intended. I am very handy at electrical work, but no way was I gonna mess with all the big stuff. Good luck OP….sorta depends on your expertise and local codes/conditions.

I did the entire install myself for my generator. I bought a 20KW from Costco a little over a year ago. I was getting a new ac/furnace and the old ac was in the exact spot I needed to install generator. I made sure with the hvac place that they could place at a different spot and it was confirmed that they could do that. I could have waited until they ripped out the old one, but I drained the refrigerant to the compressor (this involved closing the one valve I think and letting it run until the compressor sucked everything up) and was able to just cut the copper out. I had to also rip out the old interrupt which wasn't being used as a meter interrupt any longer, it was just wired straight through. Then I poured a cement pad myself. I had to run a new line from the meter to the ATS, which I chose to just use a conduit into the ATS. I connected it to the main panel which I also had upgraded from 150A to 200A box. I got the generator to the pad, then ran conduit into the ATS using tray cable because it was a lot cheaper than individual. I ran the gas line and did a pressure test with a manometer. I also ran fiber optic into the generator and used a media converter to connect to a raspberry pi that has a genhat on it to monitor and control the generator.

Had the inspector out and he asked me if I was an electrician and I said no that I work in healthcare. His response was "Wow. That's crazy because you did a better job installing your generator than many of the electricians." I had to do hundreds of hours of research and studying for every aspect from the electrical to pouring the cement and the gas line. That being said I wouldn't recommend most people to do it because it can be very dangerous especially if you're working in the meter box with live wires.

 

[imagineer]

So far, I've racked up 13 flat-out "No's" and only 3 "Maybe's, but in 6 months", so I'm just going to handle the electrical prep work myself. It should not be a problem getting a local plumber, who has done work at my house before, to to the gas piping.

I got to say it's extremely discouraging how unmotivated, unhelpful and mostly unfriendly the electrical contractors have been.

The Generator is a new, purchased from Menard's and includes a 200amp whole-house transfer switch. With the 11% rebate, (which, per Mrs. Imagineer, will go toward replacing our 30 year old fridge) it ended up being a really good price.

I've been studying the install instructions and bringing questions to the electrician at my plant, and am confident I can handle everything up to installing the new service entry wire from the meter to the Generac transfer switch. Maybe with 95% of the work done, I can bribe my plant electrician to look over my shoulder for the final connections.

 

[Milton Shaw]

One note about NG. In a lot of areas, in case of emergency, flood, tornado, etc. one of the first things they do is turn off the Natural Gas. They do this because there are a lot of open pipes from houses gone. I looked into my area and decided on a 500 gallon (400 usable) propane setup so I would know I have gas available. This is just for your information. I did the total install on mine with a transfer switch, concrete pads for generator, and tank. I decided on what circuits I wanted on backup and what I did not need and wired only those circuits on backup. For instance I did not hookup an Electric stove as it draws as much as the generator can supply by itself.

 

[imagineer]

One note about NG. In a lot of areas, in case of emergency, flood, tornado, etc. one of the first things they do is turn off the Natural Gas. They do this because there are a lot of open pipes from houses gone. I looked into my area and decided on a 500 gallon (400 usable) propane setup so I would know I have gas available. This is just for your information. I did the total install on mine with a transfer switch, concrete pads for generator, and tank. I decided on what circuits I wanted on backup and what I did not need and wired only those circuits on backup. For instance I did not hookup an Electric stove as it draws as much as the generator can supply by itself.

Thanks for the heads up about the gas supply, but for where we live, it's not a concern. We're well out in the boonies, and if there's an emergency, we're probably the last ones to get FEMA attention.

FWIW, I believe my NG inlet meter has a doo-hickey on it that will close or restrict the supply valve if it senses an abrupt loss of house side pressure.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

One note about NG. In a lot of areas, in case of emergency, flood, tornado, etc. one of the first things they do is turn off the Natural Gas. They do this because there are a lot of open pipes from houses gone. I looked into my area and decided on a 500 gallon (400 usable) propane setup so I would know I have gas available. This is just for your information. I did the total install on mine with a transfer switch, concrete pads for generator, and tank. I decided on what circuits I wanted on backup and what I did not need and wired only those circuits on backup. For instance I did not hookup an Electric stove as it draws as much as the generator can supply by itself.

here in california weve had our share of natural disasters and the NG has never been shut off

 

[ihateminimumwage]

I've done plenty of startups but not the physical install on standby equipment. I know with some of the HSB installs people will do a lot of work themselves (setting a pad and the generator, trenching, burying the conduit and wire) and have the electrician come out to make the final connections. Get real familiar with code on where to set, dig and route everything.

 

[nadogail]

here in california weve had our share of natural disasters and the NG has never been shut off

What California city was the Natural Gas Pipeline explosion in?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What California city was the Natural Gas Pipeline explosion in?

San bruno... and that wasnt a natural disaster... it was negligence by our gas company

 

[jeepxj]

One note about NG. In a lot of areas, in case of emergency, flood, tornado, etc. one of the first things they do is turn off the Natural Gas. They do this because there are a lot of open pipes from houses gone. I looked into my area and decided on a 500 gallon (400 usable) propane setup so I would know I have gas available. This is just for your information. I did the total install on mine with a transfer switch, concrete pads for generator, and tank. I decided on what circuits I wanted on backup and what I did not need and wired only those circuits on backup. For instance I did not hookup an Electric stove as it draws as much as the generator can supply by itself.

uhh wut you smoking. NG isolates problem areas and is left up farrrr beyond the electrical grid.

 

[AP514]

They Never turn off the NG here in Houston Texas..Fire, Flood, Hurricains and of course Sub Zero temps...

 

[yeldogt]

So far, I've racked up 13 flat-out "No's" and only 3 "Maybe's, but in 6 months", so I'm just going to handle the electrical prep work myself. It should not be a problem getting a local plumber, who has done work at my house before, to to the gas piping.

I got to say it's extremely discouraging how unmotivated, unhelpful and mostly unfriendly the electrical contractors have been.

The Generator is a new, purchased from Menard's and includes a 200amp whole-house transfer switch. With the 11% rebate, (which, per Mrs. Imagineer, will go toward replacing our 30 year old fridge) it ended up being a really good price.

I've been studying the install instructions and bringing questions to the electrician at my plant, and am confident I can handle everything up to installing the new service entry wire from the meter to the Generac transfer switch. Maybe with 95% of the work done, I can bribe my plant electrician to look over my shoulder for the final connections.

In most installs the hardest part for a novice is the meter needs to be pulled in order to disconnect the line from the street ... In some areas the power company will actually do this for you.

You will have to lay out the install and see what works best. My nephew was lucky with everything in the same area -- both gas and electric service entrance and his AC compressors. The transfer switch was able to be attached to the meter pan with conduit and the rewire was easy.

 

[imagineer]

In some areas the power company will actually do this for you.

I've been trying for 8 days now to get AEP to provide information about what I'm obligated to do in terms of a generator install. 3-4 times per day, I call their technical help line, only to be put on hold, and 20-30 minutes later the call gets dropped.

All I want to know is, am I required to have the fuse at the power pole pulled before opening the meter box? About 15 years ago, I had my breaker panel replaced and the electrician who did the work, pulled the meter, but left the fuse at the pole connected.

I should mention that American Electric Power are encouraging folks to invest in stand-by generators.

I might have found a solution though. Last evening on a test drive of my '72 MG Midget, I passed an newly established Amish run company that advertised they provide Alternative Energy Products and Solutions.

Almost all the Amish homes in this area have solar panels. Some have enough solar square footage that they connect to the grid such that they "sell" their excess generation back to the power company.

I correctly assumed, since these guys would do meter work, they would be interested in my project too. It interested them even more when I described the focused scope of work; new wires from the meter to the transfer panel and from the transfer panel to my house panel. I'll be handling everything else.

 

[yeldogt]

I've been trying for 8 days now to get AEP to provide information about what I'm obligated to do in terms of a generator install. 3-4 times per day, I call their technical help line, only to be put on hold, and 20-30 minutes later the call gets dropped.

All I want to know is, am I required to have the fuse at the power pole pulled before opening the meter box? About 15 years ago, I had my breaker panel replaced and the electrician who did the work, pulled the meter, but left the fuse at the pole connected.

I should mention that American Electric Power are encouraging folks to invest in stand-by generators.

I might have found a solution though. Last evening on a test drive of my '72 MG Midget, I passed an newly established Amish run company that advertised they provide Alternative Energy Products and Solutions.

Almost all the Amish homes in this area have solar panels. Some have enough solar square footage that they connect to the grid such that they "sell" their excess generation back to the power company.

I correctly assumed, since these guys would do meter work, they would be interested in my project too. It interested them even more when I described the focused scope of work; new wires from the meter to the transfer panel and from the transfer panel to my house panel. I'll be handling everything else.

electricians just pull the meter ... I stay away from all of that. years ago when young and doing rehabs with services changes my local electric company in nj was great .. they would come over and disconnect at the house for a new service and come back in a few to reconnect.

in pa .. forget it. had to hire someone

 

[imagineer]

Probably a dumb question about conduit size, but… For the install of my new Generac stand by generator, I’ll be running 4/0-4/0-4/0-2/0 (aluminum) and 6 x 18ga from the generator to the transfer switch panel.

I don’t intend to ‘pull’ the wire through the conduit, rather I’ll thread all the conductors though the various conduit components loose and glue it together as I go along. According to the Southwire conduit fill calculator, 1 ½” conduit is not up to NEC code (at 54% filled). I’d prefer to stick with 1 ½” because the knockout in the generator cabinet is that size. Will I be creating a potential problem later on by going with the smaller conduit, or should I just stop being cheap and lazy and upsize to 2”?

For your reference, all total, from the generator to the transfer switch panel will be under 16’

 

[Max]

I don’t intend to ‘pull’ the wire through the conduit, rather I’ll thread all the conductors though the various conduit components loose and glue it together as I go along. According to the ’

I am pretty sure that technique is not to the NEC - which requires wires pulled through completed conduit. Your way you will get glue on the wires and may even glue them to the conduit.

Don’t take me as the last word - hopefully one of the practicing electricians will confirm or deny...

 

[tester19]

Never in 30 years of living on the gulf coast has the NG EVER been turned off?
This is an urban legend and false. NG is way more reliable than electric. I mean think about it for a minute?? He is installing a NG generator to cover electric grid failures. If they keep turning off the gas how would this work?

You bring up a good point about your gas meter too. I have a pool heater and large whole house generator as well as gas heat. Just call your gas company and ask if your current meter has the BTU capacity you need for what you house has. I have found that they will install a larger capacity one for no charge but I am sure this varies with location.
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