Installine POE Cameras

[Higgins]

I'm going to get started with installing a security system using POE cameras. I purchased one camera and some Cat6 cabling and was hoping to view the possible camera locations prior to purchasing the reaming cameras and Cat6 cables....

I understand I can connect a POE camera directly to a laptop. Does anyone know what software would be used on the laptop to view the camera??

Thanks!! - AL

 

[anythingyoucanimagine]

This is a loaded question/situation.

Sometimes the operating system may have drivers to recognize the device (camera) and therefore you may need nothing. On the other end of the spectrum, some manufacturers require proprietary (and even sometimes paid) software to use their devices.

To clarify: You just want laptop >> Cat6 cable >> PoE injector >> cat6 cable >> camera so that you can place the camera in various locations to see the viewing angles/coverage before you buy more cameras?

What brand camera did you buy and what kind of laptop do you have (what operating system)?

 

[klassenl]

In my experience accessing a single camera like this will be done through your Web browser. There should be an IP address in the back of the camera. You type this in the address bar. Alternately you can plug that camera into your router and use the same address to access it.

 

[Git]

Web Browser - you may have to load some sort of plugin. Keep in mine, you need to make sure that your laptop is on the same subnet as the camera. It is usually better if your laptop is not set to a static ip address.

Also, some cameras, like Hikvision, have a software tool that will scan for the camera and directly make some changes - it's called sadp

 

[newbinga]

As stated you'll need a POE injector. Also different cameras use different browsers. Most require Internet explorer. Some use chrome.

Scan tools like Sadp usually only work for their products as they search by MAC address.


Sent from my iPad using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[rmanrman]

Please tell me what a POE injector is? I’ve purchased a Poe Lorex camera and NVR set. The instructions are to set up the NVR but placement of cameras is not possible until the NVR is set up. Also the cameras get their power from the NVR so no external power needed
Therefore I’m not sure I need a POE injector. My old cctv cameras were analog all I needed was a small monitor.

 

[anythingyoucanimagine]

Please tell me what a POE injector is? I’ve purchased a Poe Lorex camera and NVR set. The instructions are to set up the NVR but placement of cameras is not possible until the NVR is set up. Also the cameras get their power from the NVR so no external power needed
Therefore I’m not sure I need a POE injector. My old cctv cameras were analog all I needed was a small monitor.

poe = power over ethernet. It's just 8 copper wires in the cat 5/6/7/8/9/10 cable. A laptop/switch/NIC doesn't push out power (voltage like a wall receptacle) does.


Think about a 9-volt battery. If you plug in an Ethernet cable to your laptop/computer and then stick your tongue to the other end... you'll get nothing...


You need to inject the power or voltage into the line. Your computer/laptop doesn't "output" that power.

A PoE injector is like splicing a 9-volt battery into the Ethernet cable so internet (****, web pages) still works... but also if you stick your tongue on the end you get zapped because now there's power. (over ethernet)

edit: feel free to add to that horrendous description of poe

 

[Git]

Please tell me what a POE injector is? I’ve purchased a Poe Lorex camera and NVR set. The instructions are to set up the NVR but placement of cameras is not possible until the NVR is set up. Also the cameras get their power from the NVR so no external power needed
Therefore I’m not sure I need a POE injector. My old cctv cameras were analog all I needed was a small monitor.

This thread was about temporarily setting up a camera and using a laptop to check the placement. With an IP type camera, the ethernet cable provides both the power and the digital signal. To temporarily view the camera with a laptop, you would connect them with ethernet cable (cat5 or cat6) and this is where the injector comes in. You connect the camera to the injector and then the injector to the laptop. The injector needs to be plugged in - usually 120v household current and it then provides power to the camera.

Something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001PS9E5I/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Higgins]

The laptop is a Lenovo G50
OS is Win 8.0
Camera is from Backstreet
U90VW

They suggested i use the following SW on the laptop, however, it will not load.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zstgeqvk...oftware & Tools?dl=0&subfolder_nav_tracking=1

The cameras when purchased, will be connected directly to a DVR and not to our Internet Router. We live in a rural area served by Frontier Communications who uses old obsolete routers, and they wont support any other routers but theirs! Consequently you don't want to try and connect devices to their equipment as they will not be any help in resolving any issues or problems!!!

 

[newbinga]

I own a security company and we install cameras, access control, etc.

POE is Power over Ethernet.

A CAT5/6 cable has 8 wires or 4 pair. Orange, green, blue and brown and orange/white, green/white, etc.

Data is usually carried over 2 pair, and the other pair are unused in most applications. So the unused pair get power. There are certain variances to this depending if you are using POE, POE+, etc but that's the jist. There are also different voltages but that should not be relevant for this project.

As explained above, 4 pair come into the injector, and power/voltage is applied to 1 or 2 pair. Most devises are auto sensing, so if you plug a laptop into a POE port on a switch, the switch will not turn on PoE and will just pass data. Injectors usually arent as smart, and just pass power regardless, so be careful and make sure you check your ports LAN/PoE before plugging stuff in.

PoE is PoE regardless if it comes from an NVR (IP devices use NVR's not DVR, Network Video Recorder versus Digital Video Recorder), switch, or injector. But the device has to be PoE capable. Not all switches are PoE capable, and they are more money.

Most of your consumer NVR's have ports built into them that are POE to keep it easy to use and manage. On commercial projects, we hate it and only use PoE switches.

The laptop is irrelevant and the OS should not matter, except for the software. The SW may not work on Win 8, but you should still be able to do everything you need from a browser. You should be able to access the NVR via a browser.

I will say the camera you have is manual zoom which means manual focus. Those are a PITA to adjust. There should be two screws, one for zoom, and one for focus, and the focus is usually down to hairline adjustments. We only use motorized lenses, and they are not that much more.

 

[HenryAZ]

As stated you'll need a POE injector.

I much prefer the POE injector over the alternative, which is a switch that provides POE ports. A POE switch consumes much more power than a regular switch, thus runs hotter and typically has fan(s) inside for cooling, which is (are) a point of failure, not to mention the extra heat in an enclosed network closet.

POE injectors are typically sold by the camera vendor and are ordered separately. Yes, they introduce more clutter, but if you already have a dedicated network area (such as in a laundry room closet, where mine is), you never see them. The provide a screw hole or holes for mounting them out of the way.

 

[TLCObsession]

I just setup my NVR again. I used the mobile access app so that I can get the cameras where I want them and aimed properly. I used a pre-made 100' ethernet cable out the front door to the camera sitting on a ladder. Once I got it close, I mounted it, and aimed it.

Then I pulled it down, drilled a hole, pulled and terminated the CAT6 cable and routed my wires. Turned out just right. For the record, I had the temporary mount setup for 2 days so I could test the motion alarm feature as we ll as the impact of other outside lighting on the night vision mode of the camera.

 

[JRC3]

What is the difference here over just buying a system like Night Owl or Wisenet from somewhere like Sams Club?

 

[cspcrx]

I am going through this very same thing with a Lorex system I bought. What I did was just took the NVR outside and plugged it in, plugged an old PC monitor into it then ran the Cat5e cable the camera came with to the camera. My wife helped some but it allowed me to see and fine tune them enough to get an idea of placement.


I originally purchased a device shown in another thread but found you still needed the NVR. So this is how I tackled it.

I just painted them yesterday to color match the exterior of the house to blend in. Next is running cables.

 

[A**holes Garage]

I've had my Hikvision system for about 3 years now or so. I just used the mobile app on the phone to get the camera placement and adjustments.

I painted mine to color match my house too, found out later that painting them violates the Hikvision replacement warranty. Wanted to get a local exchange under warranty on one camera due to a connector that was bad. They would not replace it, I had to send it in to the factory for repair and return.

 

[prot68]

Sorry I'm techno inferior but I have a question. Will these systems work say if installed in a metal shop (pole barn) where wifi currently doesn't reach? Would I be able to get visuals on my phone via app without wifi?

 

[csi123]

Sorry I'm techno inferior but I have a question. Will these systems work say if installed in a metal shop (pole barn) where wifi currently doesn't reach? Would I be able to get visuals on my phone via app without wifi?

If your WiFi (i.e wireless network) doesn't reach the barn, do you have a wired network that connect to it? If not then the answer is of course no you can't see it using your phone. Data from the camera can't magically get to your phone without a network.

 

[Daedalus]

Anyone have experience/feedback with GW NVRs?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07N31HVDT/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Also, does the Cat 5/6 cable for POE systems need to be shielded for these to work well? Unshielded cable is much cheaper

I pulled the trigger on a Lorex system recently, but apparently (according to Lorex) the NVR will only work with Lorex branded cameras. I have not opened the box yet, so might take it back to Costco.

I'm looking for a 4K system without completely breaking the bank. I have had 3 generations of analog systems over the years, the first having CIF resolution. Terrible!

.

 

[Bretny]

That amazon system is prety expensive for whatlooks to be an off brand and only 4 cameras.

My lorex 4k 6 camera systwm should be here today and the first thing i want to do is to try and get my Nest cam hooked to it. I have read that its possible in the settings and with the cameras IP address.

I have use Zmodo analog systems with BNC connectors and your luckey if you can tell the type of car at 50ft. Real bad quality.

 

[Bad Habit]

Yeah, Amazon isn't the best source for most things, just maybe the easiest. Effectively the same system for ~$300 less.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...&cm_re=gw_security-_-9SIA46G4YH7194-_-Product

I have a GW system at my place in the Cascades, they've been around a while. Components are all probably made in the same factory(s) as the more known brands. Been running it for almost a year now with no problems. Their NVR software has a few quirks that you have to figure out, nothing major. Every so often, it will turn on manual recording for all the cameras, I'm thinking it may be after a power drop at the house. The remote viewing app for your phone is ok, not great, part of that problem is also from having to live with a DSL that tops out at less than 3mb (does work though).

For any camera locations where you're expecting to use at night with the IR, make sure of placement. The IR illuminator will reflect back off of roof overhangs,etc and basically blind the camera. dome cameras are probably more susceptible to this than the bullets (which are way bigger than you think they are).

No, don't use shielded cables, and actually no reason to use anything better than Cat5e. Cameras typically only run on 100mbs ethernet (Cat5e will run 1Gbs anyway)

 

[Bretny]

That newegg link is to a $600 system with 4 cameras. Lorax has a 4k 8mp 6camera system for $650 shipped.

 

[Daedalus]

Yeah, Amazon isn't the best source for most things, just maybe the easiest. Effectively the same system for ~$300 less.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...&cm_re=gw_security-_-9SIA46G4YH7194-_-Product

I have a GW system at my place in the Cascades, they've been around a while. Components are all probably made in the same factory(s) as the more known brands. Been running it for almost a year now with no problems. Their NVR software has a few quirks that you have to figure out, nothing major. Every so often, it will turn on manual recording for all the cameras, I'm thinking it may be after a power drop at the house. The remote viewing app for your phone is ok, not great, part of that problem is also from having to live with a DSL that tops out at less than 3mb (does work though).

For any camera locations where you're expecting to use at night with the IR, make sure of placement. The IR illuminator will reflect back off of roof overhangs,etc and basically blind the camera. dome cameras are probably more susceptible to this than the bullets (which are way bigger than you think they are).

No, don't use shielded cables, and actually no reason to use anything better than Cat5e. Cameras typically only run on 100mbs ethernet (Cat5e will run 1Gbs anyway)

Well, to be fair the one I linked to actually records in 4k, and at 30fps. The newegg one is less than 4k, and only at 15fps. The bells and whistles simply cost more. I have top of the line stuff from 10-15 years ago that cost thousands just for the recorders, and which aren't worth jack today. Same for the cameras I ran.

But the software is what I also care about. Customizable logic for all conditions is what I want, to help make sure I record what I want to record, and not record what I don't want to record. Even a day/night differentiator for motion sensitivity would be good to have. With plain vanilla logic I had to choose between recording real motion at night and everything else during the day, or real motion during the day and nothing at night.

 

[Git]

Well, to be fair the one I linked to actually records in 4k, and at 30fps. The newegg one is less than 4k, and only at 15fps. The bells and whistles simply cost more. I have top of the line stuff from 10-15 years ago that cost thousands just for the recorders, and which aren't worth jack today. Same for the cameras I ran.

But the software is what I also care about. Customizable logic for all conditions is what I want, to help make sure I record what I want to record, and not record what I don't want to record. Even a day/night differentiator for motion sensitivity would be good to have. With plain vanilla logic I had to choose between recording real motion at night and everything else during the day, or real motion during the day and nothing at night.

You need to go over to ipcamtalk and start reading - no one uses 30 fps, there is simply no need. People get hung up on frame rate and megapixel. Some of the better cameras, especially for low light situations (nightime) are only 2 megapixel. It's all marketing hype

https://ipcamtalk.com/forums/ip-cameras.4/

 

[Bretny]

4k is the size of the picture...so you could record 4k at 1fps. It would look like a flip book but still be 4k.

I just did a quick test on my lorax 4k 8mp system. You cant licence plates that are moving at 50ft if recording at 4k 15fps. Im going to try 2k and 24fps and see how that goes next. If that dosnt work il really have to strategy place a camera at vehicle height by the driveway. That will require putting a cat5 cable under ground.

 

[Moosefire]

4k is the size of the picture...so you could record 4k at 1fps. It would look like a flip book but still be 4k.

I just did a quick test on my lorax 4k 8mp system. You cant licence plates that are moving at 50ft if recording at 4k 15fps. Im going to try 2k and 24fps and see how that goes next. If that dosnt work il really have to strategy place a camera at vehicle height by the driveway. That will require putting a cat5 cable under ground.

Are you looking to get license plate #s from cars on the road, or just if they pull into your drive way? Either way how would you hide or disguise the camera that far away? Fab it into a lamp or flag pole or something?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[Git]

4k is the size of the picture...so you could record 4k at 1fps. It would look like a flip book but still be 4k.

I just did a quick test on my lorax 4k 8mp system. You cant licence plates that are moving at 50ft if recording at 4k 15fps. Im going to try 2k and 24fps and see how that goes next. If that dosnt work il really have to strategy place a camera at vehicle height by the driveway. That will require putting a cat5 cable under ground.

There is no way your going to be able to capture a license plate at 4k. It doesn't work that way (like you see on TV). It takes a dedicated camera zoomed in for a plate.

I made a post about it, I will see if I can find it again

 

[Bretny]

I have trees in my yard. Im also thinking about putting one in a bird house.

I kind of figured i wouldnt beable to read license plates. But that is why i bought a 6cam system with an 8ch NVR. They have to make a zoomed 4k camera. I just havnt had much time to look into anything.

 

[cspcrx]

The Lorex system I bought (4KHDIP822) came with 4 cameras. Two that have audio and two that have 4x optical zoom. It is model LNB8963.

If you system will work with Lorex POE cameras that may be a solution for you. I plan on using one facing my driveway so I can zoom in on it.

 

[Toomanytools?]

So about every 3 months I get back on the " I need to get cameras" train, then I get overwhelmed with information and move on. So my question would be what is the intended goal to security cams? If you aren't on a monitored system like ADT, aren't you just watching the bad guys? I'm not trying to rock the boat here, I get the idea of cameras.

My BNL has wireless cams set up at his cabin Uniden, they record leaves falling, snow falling, wind blowing, all this and you get an email every time.
Most of the people I see on his camera I know so it's easy to pick out "hey that's John". Some of it is camera quality and distance, but I doubt I could pick out someone and identify them if they broke in, certainly can't make out a license plate. It just seems by the time you get an alert and call the cops the break in is over, lot's of variables to this.

Anyway I'm looking for a setup mainly so I can "see" what is going on around the property, so I'm interested in the discussion.

 

[Bretny]

So about every 3 months I get back on the " I need to get cameras" train, then I get overwhelmed with information and move on. So my question would be what is the intended goal to security cams? If you aren't on a monitored system like ADT, aren't you just watching the bad guys? I'm not trying to rock the boat here, I get the idea of cameras.

My BNL has wireless cams set up at his cabin Uniden, they record leaves falling, snow falling, wind blowing, all this and you get an email every time.
Most of the people I see on his camera I know so it's easy to pick out "hey that's John". Some of it is camera quality and distance, but I doubt I could pick out someone and identify them if they broke in, certainly can't make out a license plate. It just seems by the time you get an alert and call the cops the break in is over, lot's of variables to this.

Anyway I'm looking for a setup mainly so I can "see" what is going on around the property, so I'm interested in the discussion.

True your not going to stop a break in with cameras unless you have set the motion sensing perfect. Each camera has zones that can be adjusted.

For my needs i worry less about a break in and more about a lawsuit, someone blaiming my dogs for something and just generaly whats going on at my home. We also have a house thats rented out across the street and they havnt been the best neighbors. The landlord is almost absent from the place for months on end.

Also i would much rather have video evidence of a crime after its happened than nothing at all. Paying a monthly fee wasnt an option for me.

 

[ddawg16]

I am going through this very same thing with a Lorex system I bought. What I did was just took the NVR outside and plugged it in, plugged an old PC monitor into it then ran the Cat5e cable the camera came with to the camera. My wife helped some but it allowed me to see and fine tune them enough to get an idea of placement.


I originally purchased a device shown in another thread but found you still needed the NVR. So this is how I tackled it.

I just painted them yesterday to color match the exterior of the house to blend in. Next is running cables.

The Lorex system I bought (4KHDIP822) came with 4 cameras. Two that have audio and two that have 4x optical zoom. It is model LNB8963.

If you system will work with Lorex POE cameras that may be a solution for you. I plan on using one facing my driveway so I can zoom in on it.

I have the Lorex NVR as well. What I did was set up the NVR first...get the app working on my phone....then I just used my phone outside to help aim the pictures.

Side note....I have enough street lights near my house such that I get better recordings with the night mode turned off. You can actually see more when you have color.

 

[ddawg16]

True your not going to stop a break in with cameras unless you have set the motion sensing perfect. Each camera has zones that can be adjusted.

For my needs i worry less about a break in and more about a lawsuit, someone blaiming my dogs for something and just generaly whats going on at my home. We also have a house thats rented out across the street and they havnt been the best neighbors. The landlord is almost absent from the place for months on end.

Also i would much rather have video evidence of a crime after its happened than nothing at all. Paying a monthly fee wasnt an option for me.

My big *** black lab (125 lbs) prevents the break in's.....

But my cameras have stopped more than one guy....they look up and see them...then keep walking....

 

[Falcon67]

But my cameras have stopped more than one guy....they look up and see them...then keep walking....

This is 90% of how cameras "work". Just about everyone with a decent camera installation will say similar if they have had encounters with strangers on property. Except maybe porch pirates in hoodies.

 

[vette-kid]

Are you looking to get license plate #s from cars on the road, or just if they pull into your drive way? Either way how would you hide or disguise the camera that far away? Fab it into a lamp or flag pole or something?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Why hide it? It's not a deterrent if they don't know about it.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

[Ferrino]

Where do most folks store their NVRs, which are recording 24/7? For me, the most secure and centrally-located area would be in the attached garage. Temps in there are hotter than house but cooler than attic. But I could run some fans that I probably wouldn't be able to in the house. The alternative is in a clothing closet in the house, but although the temps in there are lower, there is no active airflow and I don't really want fans whirring away inside the home...

 

[Denwood]

Lorex NVR is a POe switch so will provide power to the cams. Just plug a monitor to the lorex unit, connect the NVR to your network via the network port, and do your setup. After that you can access the NVR via internet explorer, the smartphone app, or FLIR cloud software. I just finished a lorex commercial install.

Just set up the NVR, plug in the camera via a long CAT5 or six cable and experiment. They likely included long network cables...

 

[My Old Tools]

Where do most folks store their NVRs, which are recording 24/7? For me, the most secure and centrally-located area would be in the attached garage. Temps in there are hotter than house but cooler than attic. But I could run some fans that I probably wouldn't be able to in the house. The alternative is in a clothing closet in the house, but although the temps in there are lower, there is no active airflow and I don't really want fans whirring away inside the home...

Mine is on top of a cabinet in the laundry room. High ceilings and molding around the cabinet top make a nice hidden spot. The 4 camera 8 channel Q-See system from Costco was $300 or so.

 

[DetachedGarage]

I own a security company and we install cameras, access control, etc.

POE is Power over Ethernet.

A CAT5/6 cable has 8 wires or 4 pair. Orange, green, blue and brown and orange/white, green/white, etc.

Data is usually carried over 2 pair, and the other pair are unused in most applications. So the unused pair get power. There are certain variances to this depending if you are using POE, POE+, etc but that's the jist. There are also different voltages but that should not be relevant for this project.

As explained above, 4 pair come into the injector, and power/voltage is applied to 1 or 2 pair. Most devises are auto sensing, so if you plug a laptop into a POE port on a switch, the switch will not turn on PoE and will just pass data. Injectors usually arent as smart, and just pass power regardless, so be careful and make sure you check your ports LAN/PoE before plugging stuff in.

PoE is PoE regardless if it comes from an NVR (IP devices use NVR's not DVR, Network Video Recorder versus Digital Video Recorder), switch, or injector. But the device has to be PoE capable. Not all switches are PoE capable, and they are more money.

Most of your consumer NVR's have ports built into them that are POE to keep it easy to use and manage. On commercial projects, we hate it and only use PoE switches.

The laptop is irrelevant and the OS should not matter, except for the software. The SW may not work on Win 8, but you should still be able to do everything you need from a browser. You should be able to access the NVR via a browser.

I will say the camera you have is manual zoom which means manual focus. Those are a PITA to adjust. There should be two screws, one for zoom, and one for focus, and the focus is usually down to hairline adjustments. We only use motorized lenses, and they are not that much more.

I just learned so much in your one post! Thanks so much! I will definitely be reaching out to you when I do my Security episode for my build and YouTube Channel!

 

[cspcrx]

Got mine up and running. Lorex NVR fan is loud! Mine is with other components and connects to our TV so we can see them from our couch. Found a few videos on replacing the fan in the power supply with a quieter one. Going to try that.

I like the app for monitoring remotely. Still fine tuning motion settings to drive down false alerts from shadows and bugs at night.

Overall wasn’t too bad to install but my attic is fairly easy to get around in. The included 100ft cat5e cables were plenty long enough for me.

 

[Tmart86]

4k is the size of the picture...so you could record 4k at 1fps. It would look like a flip book but still be 4k.

I just did a quick test on my lorax 4k 8mp system. You cant licence plates that are moving at 50ft if recording at 4k 15fps. Im going to try 2k and 24fps and see how that goes next. If that dosnt work il really have to strategy place a camera at vehicle height by the driveway. That will require putting a cat5 cable under ground.

You can get license plate at 50’ with 4k its all about lenses and shutter speeds. You would want to select a lens that allows you to achieve 100 pixels per foot or more. In the day time you can get away with 80ish pixels per foot but at night you will want more like 120 pixels per foot. Also for night capture you will probably need external IR emitters or a camera designed for LPR that has high power IR. So on a 4k camera you would need something along the lines of a 8 or 9mm focal length. This would give you a scene width of 35.5 feet and height of 19’ at 50’ away from the camera.

Next you need to figure out shutter speed based on speed of the car you are looking at. So 25 mph = 36.66 feet per second so a fixed shutter speed of 1/800 to 1/2000 should be used to allow each frame to capture minimal movement of the plate. This combined with 30fps and you should have no problem capturing license plates