Installing a 50A or 60A sub-panel-what wire to use?

[Model A Fan]

I have a 200A service for my house and currently, the wire that feeds my garage is a 10AWG (which is severely underpowered for ANYTHING garage related). I'd like to bump it to 50A or 60A for my future needs and the ability to expand and have found some wire locally that might work for my project. I just wanted to get a double check on it before buying it. The seller said the sheathing has 6/4 soow 600V FTS -40c +90c PP-07KA13007-MSHA 30-CFR-7.409. The run will be less than 60' and not be inside conduit, it will run up/in and interior wall, through an open space attic (can I attach it to my roof trusses with staples or run it through the attic floor joists?), then down the far wall into my garage (which shares a wall with the attic).

I know this isn't the best photo, but I was hoping to find out if this will work for doing my project. I was thinking traditional 6/3 was what I'd need for it, but this is pretty cheap and stranded from the photos he sent me. Traditional 6/3 will cost quite a bit more.

Thanks!

 

[mike93lx]

No, no, no. That's flexible cordage to use for temporary installs.

You need something like thwn, xhhw, mhf, or nmb

If you don't want to run conduit and you can protect the wire from damage, you could use aluminum ser, with 2-2-2-4 allowing a 90a feed. 4-4-4-6 would be good for 60a
6/3 nm-b copper would work but will be a lot more expensive

 

[Model A Fan]

No, no, no. That's flexible cordage to use for temporary installs.

You need something like thwn, xhhw, mhf, or nmb

If you don't want to run conduit and you can protect the wire from damage, you could use aluminum ser, with 2-2-2-4 allowing a 90a feed. 4-4-4-6 would be good for 60a
6/3 nm-b copper would work but will be a lot more expensive

Thank you for the quick and informative reply. I'm always on the hunt for materials for upcoming projects and this one has vexed me consistently as I have no 220V in my garage for ANYTHING so no welding, table saw, air compressor, etc.

I'll look into the other options. I'm thinking 60A will be sufficient since I'm a one man shop. I'd perhaps consider a 90A if it wasn't so difficult to run the 2-2-2-4 like I did for my barn.

For THWN/XHHW/MHF, I'm assuming I would have to run conduit for protection (either as individual strands or the twisted bundle)? What needs to be done for the NMB?

I'm looking for ease of use and not overly expensive, but I'd pay more to not have to use conduit. I don't know if I'd want to hook it up myself and run it or just pay an electrician to run it to my soon-to-be-newly-installed sub-panel (I will put it all in, just hooking it up is something I will likely have done for me).

 

[mike93lx]

For THWN/XHHW/MHF, I'm assuming I would have to run conduit for protection (either as individual strands or the twisted bundle)? What needs to be done for the NMB?

Yes, you would need conduit for all of those.

NM-b and ser need to be protected from damage, which can be a little vague. If there are sections that you are worried about, you can use pieces of conduit there, properly secured, as protection, or plywood, drywall, 2x4, etc.

If you are staying indoors for the whole thing, nm-b is OK, but expensive.

That 6/4 soow isn't all that useful, in reality, which is probably why it's being sold cheap and its covered in dust. A 50a generator cable is about all it is really good for.

Guess you could use it as an extension cord to the shop. Lay it out when you need it and plug stuff in, but it's not what I would want to do.

#4 ser is around $2 a foot

 

[Model A Fan]

The #4 SER in aluminum is THIS here? This is aluminum, which is what I what I am interpreting the gauge off of (#4 for aluminum, and #6 for copper).

If I used #6 SER in copper, it would be THIS HERE?

If I opted to use NM-B, I'd be using THIS HERE?

If all of that is correct, I'd likely opt for the #4 SER but what is the best way to run it without conduit? So, what I'm understanding is that if I don't want to run conduit, I can run the NM-B and run it through the floor joists, using plates over where it goes through the joist, and then lay plywood over the joists to protect it and act like a floor for my attic?

 

[mike93lx]

Yes, those are all the right wire types. All serve the same purpose, one is just a lot cheaper.

You only need nail plates when the wire comes close to the surface of the stud (1.5", IIRC). If you go through the middle of a joist, you are fine, assuming it is at least 2x6.

Plywood is good protection, but you don't need to create a floor in an attic just for this. Pictures of the locations would help.

 

[Model A Fan]

Yes, those are all the right wire types. All serve the same purpose, one is just a lot cheaper.

You only need nail plates when the wire comes close to the surface of the stud (1.5", IIRC). If you go through the middle of a joist, you are fine, assuming it is at least 2x6.

Plywood is good protection, but you don't need to create a floor in an attic just for this. Pictures of the locations would help.

I'm doing a plywood floor in the attic area as I recently insulated the attic and want to be able to use it for storing tubs of clothing, decorations, and whatever else I can't seem to part with...not that I'm a hoarder, I just have lots of...hobbies . I can try to get photos sometime soon.

I think the AL #4 SER will be my go-to for this project. Thank you very much for your help! I'm still wrapping up my barn wiring project as I've had to renovate a nursery for my baby to have her own room.

 

[mike93lx]

I'm doing a plywood floor in the attic area as I recently insulated the attic and want to be able to use it for storing tubs of clothing, decorations, and whatever else I can't seem to part with...not that I'm a hoarder, I just have lots of...hobbies . I can try to get photos sometime soon.

I think the AL #4 SER will be my go-to for this project. Thank you very much for your help! I'm still wrapping up my barn wiring project as I've had to renovate a nursery for my baby to have her own room.

Whoa, you did a nursery before getting new wire to the shop?? What's the world coming to?!

 

[Model A Fan]

Whoa, you did a nursery before getting new wire to the shop?? What's the world coming to?!

Well, it was either a nursery or a bunch of grumbling about not having a place for the baby to sleep by my wife...the garage is also much more problematic than an average one. The slab has a bad crack lengthwise and the 1/3 that is cracked is tilting away from the front, so there's a slant on a good chunk of the floor. The ceiling is 7' from the slab, very little wiring, and what is there is poorly done, not even connected to the sub-panel in the garage...it disappears into the ether, and is somehow powered by the main panel in the house. I plan to re-wire the whole thing to be usable and more organized as there are only a handful of outlets and no overhead lighting besides a single socket I put one of those three panel LED things in. Otherwise, all the lighting is from LED shop lights daisy chained together to surge protectors. Right now, the only equipment I run is my miter saw, a small 8" table saw, a refrigerator, and battery chargers.

Once I get the nursery done, I am free to work on my hobby spaces, as I've been requested to not have any more room renovations this year. I'm very meticulous so it takes longer for me to get done than if I did things half-way like the previous 70 years worth of owners. I have to undo their poor craftsmanship, bring it up to snuff, and then do my renovation/restoration, all while being a new father and having limited time to do the work. Its nice though that the end of the tunnel is near and the light is not a train's headlight.

The nursery needed flooring, drywall, wiring, trim, windows, lighting, paint, restoration of a wall and ceiling where shiplap was failing, etc. Not a massive job, but lots of little jobs were completed to get it ready for the renovation job parts. I'll see if I can post some pics later in a separate thread if I can get the time. Thank you again for the help on this project. It is actually what instigated my barn wiring project, but the barn became my main focus as I didn't have any power out there at all.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

yeah thats the wrong wire. hopefully you can return it...

 

[Model A Fan]

yeah thats the wrong wire. hopefully you can return it...

I appreciate it, but I have not purchased it and won't now. I'm kind of a scavenger when it comes to getting deals, but I know I don't know enough yet, so I double check so I don't burn my house down or fry myself.

 

[Jim greengo]

I have a 200A service for my house and currently, the wire that feeds my garage is a 10AWG (which is severely underpowered for ANYTHING garage related). I'd like to bump it to 50A or 60A for my future needs and the ability to expand and have found some wire locally that might work for my project. I just wanted to get a double check on it before buying it. The seller said the sheathing has 6/4 soow 600V FTS -40c +90c PP-07KA13007-MSHA 30-CFR-7.409. The run will be less than 60' and not be inside conduit, it will run up/in and interior wall, through an open space attic (can I attach it to my roof trusses with staples or run it through the attic floor joists?), then down the far wall into my garage (which shares a wall with the attic).

I know this isn't the best photo, but I was hoping to find out if this will work for doing my project. I was thinking traditional 6/3 was what I'd need for it, but this is pretty cheap and stranded from the photos he sent me. Traditional 6/3 will cost quite a bit more.

Thanks!

Looks like some kind of sjo cord for extension cords from the picture.
Not made for what you want to do,would make for a really hd cord though.