Installing a Home Generator

[bczygan]

Recent threads about home generators and my experience with an outage in the last 24 hours bring me to begin this thread.

I'm talking about a portable gasoline powered generator being hooked up to feed essential services for an emergency.

I am taking a couple of things as givens.

A small portable generator isn't going to run for extended periods. It's more of an extender for freezer and fridge contents, and a provider of energy for a few electrical essentials, like minimum lights, TV and computer power, clock radio and charging for cell phones.

Maybe with a larger unit, and judicial switching of loads, a small microwave. But all cooking, household heating, water heating and clothes drying would be gas. For cooling, a box fan would substitute for AC.

So I'm thinking maybe 5500 watts capacity, plus or minus. Something that could be wheeled around, lifted and used for camping as well.

The question is how to integrate it with the household for emergencies.

If you are at home when the outage occurs, you can certainly turn on everything manually. You could even run some temporary extension cords all over the house and plug in some temporary lights.

I'm thinking of something a little more user friendly.

Don't know if this would be electric start, so the question of manual or electric transfer switch comes up.

And how do you configure a system?

Cost is an object. Most of our outages are a day or less. Just went through one. A freezer will last a few hours, and an extension cord with a portable generator will take us through most of the night.

A couple days or more are much more problematic. We've lost freezers and fridges of food a few times.

I also see that there needs to be a correct sizing of the generator to match what will be powered. You don't want to run a 5500watt generator to power a single light bulb.

So what's the setup I'm looking for?

Bill

 

[brewchief]

You can use a small transfer switch panel that will have a limited number of circuits or depending on your currant main panel you may be able to add a interlock kit that will allow you to safely backfeed the entire panel, some load management needs to be planned if this is done so only essential circuits are turned on.

Either way you would most likely add a power inlet box outside that a large cord from the generator would plug into.

 

[Slowgsr]

Inverter series Honda, doesn't scream at 3600rpm. Clean power for all your electronics, and reliable. Not cheap but you get what you pay for. If you want the 240v version then you have to go with a larger unit.

Put in a generator sub panel has a built in transfer switch, feed it with a 60amp 2 pole, put all your essentials into it then put a outdoor 120/240v 30a twist lock receptacle, connect it to your genny and your good to go.

Since it's portable keep in mind theft during a power outage.

Im not a fan of generac since when it's voltage regulator fails it's going to fry all your electronic devices (anything with a circuit board) they're badically throw aways.

If you want stick with good brands like cummins onan, kohler, etc.

 

[bczygan]

Inverter series Honda, doesn't scream at 3600rpm. Clean power for all your electronics, and reliable. Not cheap but you get what you pay for. If you want the 240v version then you have to go with a larger unit.

Put in a generator sub panel has a built in transfer switch, feed it with a 60amp 2 pole, put all your essentials into it then put a outdoor 120/240v 30a twist lock receptacle, connect it to your genny and your good to go.

Since it's portable keep in mind theft during a power outage.

Im not a fan of generac since when it's voltage regulator fails it's going to fry all your electronic devices (anything with a circuit board) they're badically throw aways.

If you want stick with good brands like cummins onan, kohler, etc.

Can this be avoided by isolating it somehow, maybe a power strip of some kind or a UPS?

Bill

 

[Jlarson]

Cheapest, quickest option is a back fed breaker with an interlock kit and an inlet outside where you want to run your generator. Put colored sticker dots on your emergency loads and turn everything non essential off.

 

[bczygan]

Cheapest, quickest option is a back fed breaker with an interlock kit and an inlet outside where you want to run your generator. Put colored sticker dots on your emergency loads and turn everything non essential off.

How does the interlock work?

Does it keep the main breaker in your panel off?
Do you then have a special backfeed breaker to feed your panel?

And the interlock plate prevents you from turning the main breaker on until the backfeed breaker is off?


Bill

 

[bczygan]

Does the backfeed breaker take up 2 slots?

 

[arsco]

http://www.interlockkit.com/

 

[Slowgsr]

I don't know about in the usa but in ontario they have a unit that goes between the meter and socket which allows you to connect that way with a 120/240 twist lock. It's pricey but idiot proof

 

[Trey T]

that interlock is ingenious!!!

 

[dogdog]

Just Google either interlock kit for your particular panel (very model specific). or... generator automatic transfer switch / manual transfer switch and move critical loads into those transfer switch/panels that the generator feeds.


interlock kit..... most major panel manufacture also have them but limited selection on the model. cheaper if you go asked at the HD or Lowes breaker isles. $50 vs $150 they sell online.... or order from them online... though their prices upded 3x for that generic ones.....

generators I would choose a dual fuel one, propane/gas / gasline. if you have cooking gas services. save trips to the gas station.... I remember there was a long long line to get gasoline when there was the black out and storm sandy in NYC area. they have the dual fuel portable generator unit for the same price as the gasoline units now.....

 

[wyliesdiesels]

OP- there is several good generator hook up threads on here. Have u searched for them?

Can this be avoided by isolating it somehow, maybe a power strip of some kind or a UPS?

Bill

A power strip wont help with brown outs nor will it help with spikes in voltage from the generator unless the voltage goes above the clamping voltage rating of the surge strip.

Youre best bet is to get a UPS that has AVR(automatic voltage regulation)...My UPSs have this and it doesnt use battery for minor brown outs.

APC also makes a 1200va AVR unit that doesnt have a battery. I use several of these for loads that dont require emergency backup power.

How does the interlock work?

Does it keep the main breaker in your panel off?
Do you then have a special backfeed breaker to feed your panel?

And the interlock plate prevents you from turning the main breaker on until the backfeed breaker is off?


Bill

An interlock is a metal plate that disallows 2 breakers(main and generator breaker) to be on at the same time.

The breaker isnt anything special. Its just a standard breaker that is listed for your panel(correct brand and model).

BTW what brand of panel do u have?

The interlocks only work with certain panels...

Does the backfeed breaker take up 2 slots?

If its a double pole 240v breaker(120v/240v generator) then yes.

 

[theoldwizard1]

By far the least expensive solution is extension cords. A couple of 50' 12 gauge or better yet 10 gauge cords and heavy duty triple taps. From the triple tap, you will need 16 gauge (14 gauge better) cords to go to each appliance.

I have a 5500 watt generator but have not had to use it since the Northeast blackout of 2003. I did buy a couple more extension cords, but nothing more.

If you aren't going to try and use the A/C and have no other 220V appliances, you can likely get by with about 3000-3600 watts.

Forget transfer switches. Use a generator interlock if possible. With a transfer switch you have one attempt to guess what are your most important circuits. With an interlock you can actually change things on the fly (like turn off the refrigerator and turn on the freezer).

If you do the interlock, make sure you have a generator that has 240V outlet. If not, you will have to move all of your "priority" loads to the one leg being powered by the generator.



FYI: Switching a generator to run on natural gas is not that difficult/expensive with a motor snorkel kit. If you think you might go this way, you should know that an engine running on natural gas makes about 10-15% LESS power.


PS: Knowing where you live, loss prevention is a big issue. A running generator broadcasts its presence to bad guys ! Best solution is a mean looking dog chained to the generator frame.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Does the backfeed breaker take up 2 slots?

Yes. If your panel is full, the solution is tandem breakers (2 breakers that take up one slot). Install 2 and now you have 2 free slots.

 

[theoldwizard1]

http://www.interlockkit.com/

Some "load center" (industry terminology for breaker panel) manufacturers (Square D) also sell kits, but only for certain models.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

intelockkits.com is terribly expensive, something like a $150. Depending on what panel you have, there are probably interlock kits made by the panel manufacturer for less than $100 and probably way less if you shop around.

Putting a mechanical interlock in a panel depends on having a main breaker in the panel, and, depending on the interlock, the top two breaker spots on either the left or right side free for the generator inlet breaker. Usually its the RH side but a few fit on the LH side.

See my thread on generator interlocks from a year ago. for some ideas.

GE, Siemens and Square D make several different interlocks that fit the majority of their panels. If you have a small panel the the main is simply a back fed 100 amp in one of the upper spots, Siemens makes interlocks for those also. If you have a main lug panel, you also could, depending on the panel, go to the trouble to install a main breaker kit in your panel, which would allow the installation of an interlock kit.

Charles

Below are a couple of examples of interlocks from the thread linked to above.

Square D 200 amp home panel

Siemens back and forth interlock that must be used with Siemens breakers.

 

[bczygan]

Panel is:
QO 200-Amp 30-Space 40-Circuit Indoor Main Breaker Load Center with Cover Value Pack
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-by-Schneider-Electric-QO-200-Amp-30-Space-40-Circuit-Indoor-Main-Breaker-Load-Center-with-Cover-Value-Pack-QO3040M200VP/202523118

Actually it's the future panel. Right now I have a 60A fused panel affectionately called "Old Sparky".

Also have a Centurion (By Generac) 3250 gasoline generator. Hand pull start and 240V 4 pin outlet.
https://centuriongenerators.com/products/portablegenerators/3250watts.aspx

With that low watts, and no electric start, and fairly low number of hours capacity, maybe the best bet is extension cords for now. All I really need is fridge and freezer, TV, some lights, computer and a fan.

But lots of good info here.

 

[bczygan]

By far the least expensive solution is extension cords. A couple of 50' 12 gauge or better yet 10 gauge cords and heavy duty triple taps. From the triple tap, you will need 16 gauge (14 gauge better) cords to go to each appliance.

I have a 5500 watt generator but have not had to use it since the Northeast blackout of 2003. I did buy a couple more extension cords, but nothing more.

If you aren't going to try and use the A/C and have no other 220V appliances, you can likely get by with about 3000-3600 watts.

Forget transfer switches. Use a generator interlock if possible. With a transfer switch you have one attempt to guess what are your most important circuits. With an interlock you can actually change things on the fly (like turn off the refrigerator and turn on the freezer).

If you do the interlock, make sure you have a generator that has 240V outlet. If not, you will have to move all of your "priority" loads to the one leg being powered by the generator.



FYI: Switching a generator to run on natural gas is not that difficult/expensive with a motor snorkel kit. If you think you might go this way, you should know that an engine running on natural gas makes about 10-15% LESS power.


PS: Knowing where you live, loss prevention is a big issue. A running generator broadcasts its presence to bad guys ! Best solution is a mean looking dog chained to the generator frame.

Or my wife!

 

[brewchief]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CONDIGO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Add a breaker, inlet box, a bit of wire and a cord designed to connect the inlet box and generator, could be all in for 200$ or so. It's nice to not have to pull out the fridge to plug it into an extension cord or eat dinner with a trouble light lighting the kitchen because everything else in there is an overhead light.

My generator isn't that much bigger, it would have been ideal to wire it with a 20 amp inlet but they are hard to find locally, I did everything for a 30 amp inlet then use a 20 to 30 amp twist lock adapter to plug my 20 amp cord into the 30 amp inlet, I can upsize the generator and only need to upgrade the cord(I would have bought a 30 amp cord but I snagged a 20 amp one on clearance).

 

[wyliesdiesels]

BCzygan- what brand of panel do u currently have? Sounds like a relic!

 

[sberry]

If I was in Bills shoes would look for a small genset and a couple of cord. Forget all that **** and you would be ready now and could use it for camp if you wanted the noise. I am on the verge of getting a little Honda too.

 

[Slowgsr]

Check out the square d generator sub panels, I installed one in my sister in laws house, and it worked out since their main panel was way too full.

 

[theoldwizard1]

If I was in Bills shoes would look for a small genset and a couple of cord. Forget all that **** and you would be ready now and could use it for camp if you wanted the noise. I am on the verge of getting a little Honda too.

The Honda EU2000 is the "gold standard", but I think it is overpriced for what you get. The Yamaha inverter generators are not much less expensive.

The Champion 3100 watt inverter generator does weigh almost twice as much, but it also has 50% more capacity and costs several hundred dollars less.

Another "off brand" model is the Boliy Pro3600SI. About the same price as the Honda, but again 50% more power. It use the same engine as some of the Yamaha generators with a Nikasil coated cylinder.

 

[theoldwizard1]

... maybe the best bet is extension cords for now. All I really need is fridge and freezer, TV, some lights, computer and a fan.

Lamp cords from a power strip will cover most of what you need. You can buy 250' of lamp cord at HD for under $50. Press on/crimp lamp plug and receptacles should only be a couple dollars each.

If you have a DETACHED garage, run your genny inside it. Helps keep the noise down.

Also remember to check the oil level EVERY TIME YOU FILL THE GAS when you are doing extended runs.

 

[sberry]

+Thanks, I might look in to some of those.

 

[theoldwizard1]

+Thanks, I might look in to some of those.

Champion is your typical US company, with Chinese suppliers doing all of the manufacturing. Their "claim" is that they have a US warehouse for parts and try to keep 100% of the parts in stock in the US.

They also have a 2 year warranty.

 

[Jlarson]

A proper inlet and transfer equipment looks a lot better to line crews during an outage.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

A proper inlet and transfer equipment looks a lot better to line crews during an outage.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I was in Wallyworld today (buying oil) and I noticed they had polarized 15' 16 gauge 2 wire lamp cords for less than $3, For that price it is worth having a few around in your spares box.

 

[CJ7VFR]

If you have a DETACHED garage, run your genny inside it. Helps keep the noise down.

I would be very wary of doing this.

Even though the garage may be detached, if the generator is running for along time, the carbon monoxide levels can get really high inside the garage.

If you go in to check the generator, it can over take you in a matter of minutes if you decide you are going to change the oil on the generator or something like that.

During Hurricane Sandy, my power was out for 11 days, and my generator ran almost non stop for that entire time. I had mine outside. If it was inside my garage or even my shed, the carbon monoxide levels would be dangerously high running it for days at a time!

Be very careful!

Jim

 

[Falcon67]

A small portable generator isn't going to run for extended periods. It's more of an extender for freezer and fridge contents, and a provider of energy for a few electrical essentials, like minimum lights, TV and computer power, clock radio and charging for cell phones.

Ah - why not. Just got back from a 3 day race, our 3500w Champion ran Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Friday it was on about 12 hours, Saturday 15 hours, Sunday 10 hours. That's since we can sleep at the house. because it's 15 miles from the track. It was hot and humid, so the 14K BTU AC on the trailer was running constantly - that's 18~20A, closer to 20A when you get above 90F. It chewed about 12-15 gallons over the weekend more or less. It's a $300 unit, pull start with low oil shutoff. Works great. If we had an extended outage, I'd just use cords here.

As for inside/outside - it rained like hell for an hour Friday and the gen was surrounded by water, out in the open. Never hiccuped.

Northern sells a nice Honda 6500 unit that has the same dB rating as our Champion, but it's $1400 on sale and weighs twice as much. I'd love to have one but these $350 race weekends to win $0 get in the way of finances.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Even though the garage may be detached, if the generator is running for along time, the carbon monoxide levels can get really high inside the garage.

Use the garage door, not the man door.

 

[muddy tires]

I picked up a Generlink http://www.generlink.com/about_generlink.cfm. It installs behind the meter so gives a generator plug and a proper transfer switch. I like it because i can manually manage my load, depending on my current needs.

The trouble with the extension cord method is that it is really hard to power hard wired equipment like furnace and well pump.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I'm not a fan of interlocks. Makes it too easy to overload the genset. That being said, I'm only talking about when "technically inept" types are trying to use it. Probably doesn't apply to 99% of the readership here.


Tommy

 

[Jagmandave]

I picked up a Generlink http://www.generlink.com/about_generlink.cfm. It installs behind the meter so gives a generator plug and a proper transfer switch. I like it because i can manually manage my load, depending on my current needs.

The trouble with the extension cord method is that it is really hard to power hard wired equipment like furnace and well pump.

Thanks for the link, but nowhere on the site could I see a price! What does it cost?

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Thanks for the link, but nowhere on the site could I see a price! What does it cost?

A bunch if I recall............. way more than its worth. Of course the power company has to install it, and probably will charge you for doing this.

Charles

 

[Jlarson]

Don't run your generator inside, besides the CO hazards if it starts on fire you're gonna be totally SOL.

 

[CJ7VFR]

A bunch if I recall............. way more than its worth. Of course the power company has to install it, and probably will charge you for doing this.

Charles

Those things can cost in excess of $850.00! I don't know if your electric company charges to install it, but if they do, that will add to the cost as well.

They still require the home owner to turn off all the breakers in the main panel before you hook up your generator, and then turn on the ones you think you will need during your power outage. That can be a hassle sometimes if you are not the only one doing it. If you have a wife or kids, and you are not around to turn the breakers on and off, who knows what they might turn on!

I bought a 10 circuit Manual Transfer Switch from a company called GenTran a few years ago.

Here is mine. I got the Power Inlet box and 25 foot 10/3 cord as well:

Mine is hooked up to the 8 most important circuits in my house (two being double pole breakers for my well pump and septic system). I have a Briggs and Straton Storm Responder 5500/8250 generator that supplies power to the transfer switch via the Power Inlet box mounted on the outside of the house.

It worked great during the 11 days I was without power during Hurricane Sandy.

Without that we would have lost hundreds of dollars of food getting spoiled, not to mention the basement getting flooded because the sump pump would have been off. And it was cold during those 11 days, and having heat and hot water to take a shower is something you don't think about until you don't have it!!!

No matter which route you go with hooking up your generator, it is a godsend to be able to stay in your home and live some-what comfortably, take a shower, flush the toilet, have your septic system still work and not freeze during a power outage that can last along time!

Jim

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I bought a 10 circuit Manual Transfer Switch from a company called GenTran a few years ago.

Here is mine. I got the Power Inlet box and 25 foot 10/3 cord as well:

It worked great during the 11 days I was without power during Hurricane Sandy.

Jim

I have the same MTS, but hardwired to the intlet box. AFAIC, you can't ask for a much easier setup.

Tommy

 

[theoldwizard1]

I have the same MTS, but hardwired to the intlet box. AFAIC, you can't ask for a much easier setup.

Tommy

IMHO, a generator interlock IS easier to install and use. Likely less expensive and much more flexible.