I just built my new garage and need to install a 200 amp service. Have some questions about install. I am installing the meter socket opposite the panel. I plan on running from the mast head outdoor cased wire into the meter socket through a rubber seal that clamps down tight when you tighten the nut and further sealing it with silicon just incase. I plan on coming out of the meter socket on the bottom and running the wire through 2 inch conduit into an LB and through the wall. On the other side of the wall i plan on connecting the LB outside with an LB inside and running it into the box on the bottom all through conduit. Other than it being tuff to pull and bend that wire does anyone see a problem with this?
installing a new 200 amp service
- Thread starter otherone
- Start date
pattenp
Well-known member
That's okay, but did you consider using SER cable out the back of the meter socket box straight through the wall then into the service panel and not use conduit? That's provided the SER would be within the wall.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
Why go through all that trouble? If you're concerned about water tightness, just put a bead of silicone around the meter socket!
Speedy Petey
Well-known member
This is what I would do only I would use SEU. SER is not used for service entrance.
If you are worried about sealing use a good amount of duct seal behind the meter.
pattenp
Well-known member
I used the term SER loosely, and yes SEU is used typically for service entrance. But that does not mean that SER cannot be used, it is a service entrance cable. SER has a regular stranded bare ground where the SEU has a concentric ground wrapping the conductors.
Speedy Petey
Well-known member
SER and SEU are two distinct cables. You cannot use one "loosely". "SE cable" is a term you can use loosely.
SER is used for service cable after a main disconnect.
SER also has a superfluous conductor for service entrance applications. What would you do with it?
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
Older pics of my meter and panel installation. You can see, I ran the 2" conduit straight thru the wall from the back of the meter/disconnect to the back of the panel. Cut a perfect hole just large enough for the conduit to pass thru. Applied silicone/RTV around the conduit where it passed thru the sheet metal. I used galvanized pipe couplings as spacers behind the meter socket to raise it up where it would not contact the ribs of the metal and allow enough room for the PVC conduit connector on the back of the disconnect. You can also see the 3/4 plywood (painted white and with rounded edges to keep from cutting the insulation) which I backed up the meter with. The conduit passes thru the plywood.
Charles
pattenp
Well-known member
Superfluous conductor? Are you referring to SER with 3 conductors and bare ground? SER also comes in two conductor with a bare ground.
See Southwire: http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheet273
Last edited:
Speedy Petey
Well-known member
The bare wire in a 2+1 SER is a bare equipment ground, NOT a neutral. It CANNOT be used for a single phase 120/240v service.
pattenp
Well-known member
I see what you are saying, but further down in the charts the SEU is referred to as 2 conductors and a concentric ground. My question is where in code does it say the SE has to have a concentric neutral/ground to be use as a service. You saying the SER cannot be used for single phase service comes from where? The application from Southwire states...
APPLICATIONS
Southwire Type SE, service entrance cable is used to convey power from the service drop to the meter base and from the
meter base to the distribution panelboard; however, it may be used in all applications where Type SE cable is permitted. SE
may be used in wet or dry above ground locations at temperatures not to exceed 90° C. Voltage rating is 600 volts.
If SER can't be used as a service entrance then why is it listed as a SE cable?
Not to argue with you, but we have a different point of view.
APPLICATIONS
Southwire Type SE, service entrance cable is used to convey power from the service drop to the meter base and from the
meter base to the distribution panelboard; however, it may be used in all applications where Type SE cable is permitted. SE
may be used in wet or dry above ground locations at temperatures not to exceed 90° C. Voltage rating is 600 volts.
If SER can't be used as a service entrance then why is it listed as a SE cable?
Not to argue with you, but we have a different point of view.
Speedy Petey
Well-known member
I specifically stated the SER 2-conductor with a GROUND cannot be used for a 120/240v service. It clearly states that this cable is SER.
Where it refers to SEU in the chart as 2- conductor plus a concentric ground is kind of incorrect. The bare in SEU can be a ground or a neutral. The correct text is where I quoted above.
This is why SEU used to be acceptable for 120/240V dryers and ranges when fed from a main panel.
Bottom line is the bare in SER is a ground.
The bare in SEU is (can be) a neutral (or a ground).
pattenp
Well-known member
You didn't answer my question. Where is it written in code that disallows SER to be used for service entrance. If the concentric ground/neutral on SEU can be used both as a ground and neutral then why can't the bare ground in SER be also used for a neutral. What are the engineering design aspects of SER that forbids it's use as service entrance. Why does the Southwire application info say it is used for service entrance?
Having read the numerous posts and looked at Charlie's pix, I would suggest you hire a licensed electrical contractor in your area (ask for certificates of insurance) to configure your meter and panel to comply with local utility and jurisdiction regulations. This would give you a place to hang your defense if the place blows up or burns down.
I do not get a warm fuzzy feeling anyone answering so far knows what they are talking about.
I do not get a warm fuzzy feeling anyone answering so far knows what they are talking about.
Speedy Petey
Well-known member
What disallows it is that the bare is a GROUND. You cannot place a ground in a current carrying situation.
How am I supposed to know???
It can be used as service cable, AFTER a main disconnect.
That site from Southwire is extremely contradictory. At the top is specifically states the 2c SER is two plus a ground. In the chart is says neutral.
I have NEVER known the bare in SER to be a neutral.
I could be wrong, but I don't think so. I have never installed, nor have I ever seen 2+1 SER.
pattenp
Well-known member
Speedy, Thanks for the discussion over SER vs. SEU. I too have only seen SEU used as service entrance between the meter base and service panel. I just could not see the mechanical reason that the SER couldn't be used other than some flaky wording of ground vs. neutral. I was looking for some definitive code wording other than the ground carrying current you cited. Time to move on to our next discussion. 
Type SER is always 2 conductors and bare wire that is the neutral which is used almost everywhere when you feed a panel. Except if your panel is greater than 10 feet from the meter socket. Then you would use a disconnecting meter enclosure and Type SER to separate the grounds and neutrals from the meter socket on. The reason you separate them for this situation is so you dont back the ground up with an inferior sized wire. If you ran Type SER and lost your main ground connection and you did not separate the neutrals and grounds you would never know if you lost and or had a poor main ground.
pattenp
Well-known member
You have no case. The vast majority of people on here that give electrical advice very well know what they are talking about. I know this from my time on this forum. Electrical code, practices and material continually change and everyone may not be up to date on the latest and greatest way to do things.
pattenp
Well-known member
Not sure if this is what you meant, but SER also comes in 3 and 4 conductor. Or are you saying the SE between the meter and panel is always 2 conductor with bare neutral?
pattenp
Well-known member
I have not done any of the above other than residential work early in my career because my experience and past training is just residential. I can only speak to what I know. Doing the above makes no one an expert in all aspects of electrical work. It's so easy to criticize others instead of giving helpful information.
pattenp
Well-known member
Speedy Petey
Well-known member
No, but I have helped and worked on them, not built myself from the ground up. For that 1200 is my limit so far.
I will ask though, what in the holy hell does it matter???
Yes, again WHY does it matter??? ESPECIALLY with regard to giving advice on this forum.
Um, yeah. Every day.
Don't tell me, you are an industrial only guy who things that is the only work that matters?
pattenp
Well-known member
I'm not trying to drive you away. I'm sure you have valuable experience to contribute. My point was it seemed you were criticizing information and suggestions being given on this forum with a very broad brush instead of offering any contributory information where you see people giving bad advice.
My post of Sept 10 stands, I suggest anyone who needs help with their electrical system seek professional help. More specifically a licensed, insured contractor who is familiar with local regulations and the servicing utility. As far as my comments, I should have never opened my mouth.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
Just because someone is licensed does NOT mean they will do all work correctly or will not cut some corners! I have seen many nightmare wiring jobs & heard many electrical horror stories!
One example, a particularly costly one, was when most of a business's equipment was fried because the "licensed" electrician hooked up outlets to the stinger leg of the 240 delta feeding the building.
Another example that comes to mind is of a buddy of mine who was badly electrocuted because a previous "licensed" electrician hooked up a 3 phase 480v motor completely wrong. The guy didn't run a ground but instead bonded one of the phase legs to the motor ground. The rubber motor mounts isolated the motor from the grounded frame. When it wouldn't turn on, my buddy was sent to investigate. When he touched the motor housing to open & check it out, he got badly shocked because he was also touching the grounded platform. Yes, he could've avoided getting shocked by turning the power off except that he needed it on to test the power going to the motor.
Two other personal examples I'm reminded of- when I did an electrical inspection on a Mcdonalds with a 1200a 208Y service & discovered the 4/0 ufer ground sitting in the bottom of the panel with half of the strands severed. The other was when I did an electrical inspection on a house with an active service & discovered that there was no ground rod, the water lines weren't bonded, & the grounds from all the branch circuits were just floating & not hooked up to the ground bar! :/
Speedy Petey
Well-known member
Ths is all well and good in theory. In the real world it does not happen much of the time.
I came to the realization long ago that some folks are going to do work themselves, whether they know what they are doing or not. If I hear "It's not rocket science" one more time I'm going to scream.
Then I noticed LOTS of poor, incorrect and even dangerous advice given at home centers and on the web. That's when I decided to begin offering advice and code help. I DO realize that sometimes "Call a professional" is the ONLY answer, and in those cases that's what I say and back off. I have gotten grief over doing just that recently. Oh well.
If this is not for you then you stand by your principles and simply say "Call a professional". I won't hold it against you.