Installing an EV Receptacle

[bad_idea]

I plan to install a receptacle for a new Chevy Bolt in the garage. I have a 40 amp circuit fed by 8/2 romex for my welding machine (which uses a NEMA 6-50). I would like to install a NEMA 14-50 receptacle tied into that circuit. I am sure the code answer is no (should be dedicated circuit, and the NEMA 14-50 requires a neutral). BUT, I don't plan to use both at the same time. My real question is, will the car charge without a neutral? Will it hurt anything?

 

[BrandonV]

No. You do not need a neutral for a level 2 EV charger.

I've heard of additions being approved if a transfer switch is installed. I would still stick to a NEMA 6-50 as installing a 14-50 would be a code violation without the neutral.

 

[mm08822]

The circuit breaker and conductors need to be rated for 125% of the evse rating. What is the input requirement of your evse?

 

[bad_idea]

It draws 32 amps.

 

[mm08822]

Ok, so 40amps. Can you order the evse with either a 3wire or 4wire plug?

 

[bad_idea]

Plan to use the portable charger that came with the car. Not sure if Chevrolet offers a 6-50 plug adapter for the charger.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

odd that it comes with a 14-50P when it doesn't need a neutral

 

[bad_idea]

14-50 is the most common plug for the EVs. I agree it is odd.

 

[The Cobbler]

odd that it comes with a 14-50P when it doenst need a neutral

I bought a cord at habitat that was in an EV charger box. that was all that was in it said too short. it's 25' long and it is 8/4

 

[yatg]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08R7W8DN2/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[sparky 1971]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08R7W8DN2/?tag=atomicindus08-20

That is just wrong. Someone buys that expecting to be able to adapt over to something that needs a neutral like a camper into the welder, which might only have #12 wire. The neutral and ground are probably tied together inside it.

 

[yatg]

That is just wrong. Someone buys that expecting to be able to adapt over to something that needs a neutral like a camper into the welder, which might only have #12 wire. The neutral and ground are probably tied together inside it.

According to the comments, the neutral is not connected, and people are using this to charge EVs. If somebody buys this without research and plugs in their RV, they get what they get.

 

[sparky 1971]

According to the comments, the neutral is not connected, and people are using this to charge EVs. If somebody buys this without research and plugs in their RV, they get what they get.

No...Sure, research should be done but we all know it's not going to happen and on the rare occasion it does happen, it's going to be nothing but Pig Latin to the researcher. That should not be allowed to be sold anywhere and that is a fact. If an EV doesn't need a neutral it shouldn't have a cord cap with a neutral prong. Period. If someone wants to make their own Rube Goldberg adapter then let them. Those are the people that get what they get.

 

[BrandonV]

No...Sure, research should be done but we all know it's not going to happen and on the rare occasion it does happen, it's going to be nothing but Pig Latin to the researcher. That should not be allowed to be sold anywhere and that is a fact. If an EV doesn't need a neutral it shouldn't have a cord cap with a neutral prong. Period. If someone wants to make their own Rube Goldberg adapter then let them. Those are the people that get what they get.

Yup. Plenty of L2 chargers out there that feature a NEMA 6-50 without having to resort to non-UL approved adapters.

Install a NEMA 6-50 and buy a charger (Blink, ChargePoint, etc.) with a NEMA 6-50 that only needs 240V and call it a day. Last thing you want to find out is that the charger has some logic or circuitry expecting 120V from one of the legs.

A long time ago the idea of using a 10-30 for a dryer made sense when there was nothing more than some analog dials and switches inside. Now pretty much all the dryers tap off of one of the legs for 120V to run the digital whizzbang electronics and thus the code wanted a 14-30 to avoid a bootleg ground.

 

[Walkers]

The O P should be able to get a 6-50 adapter. I used a 6-50, then later installed a 14-50, there is no difference to the vehicle.

 

[nadogail]

I ran a 10 gauge circuit to charge my son's Leaf, 2 hots and a ground. A water heater timer keeps him from charging except during Super Off Peak rates.

 

[sparky 1971]

Yup. Plenty of L2 chargers out there that feature a NEMA 6-50 without having to resort to non-UL approved adapters.

Install a NEMA 6-50 and buy a charger (Blink, ChargePoint, etc.) with a NEMA 6-50 that only needs 240V and call it a day. Last thing you want to find out is that the charger has some logic or circuitry expecting 120V from one of the legs.

I have no problem with someone making a 6-50P to 14-50R adapter, but to go the other way around is buffoonery...

A long time ago the idea of using a 10-30 for a dryer made sense when there was nothing more than some analog dials and switches inside. Now pretty much all the dryers tap off of one of the legs for 120V to run the digital whizzbang electronics and thus the code wanted a 14-30 to avoid a bootleg ground.

Dryers, and ranges, have always had a 120 something or another. In the case of the dryer, the motor and controls are 120 and always have been. 10-30 and 10-50 is two hots and a neutral, the ground is bonded to the neutral in the appliance. Brand new dryers and ranges come from the factory with the bond strap installed just in case it will be getting plugged into a 10-50 or 10-30. The strap is removed when a 14 series cord goes on.

 

[BrandonV]

The O P should be able to get a 6-50 adapter. I used a 6-50, then later installed a 14-50, there is no difference to the vehicle.

Some chargers (think those that have WiFi) may actually need a

I have no problem with someone making a 6-50P to 14-50R adapter, but to go the other way around is buffoonery...

Dryers, and ranges, have always had a 120 something or another. In the case of the dryer, the motor and controls are 120 and always have been. 10-30 and 10-50 is two hots and a neutral, the ground is bonded to the neutral in the appliance. Brand new dryers and ranges come from the factory with the bond strap installed just in case it will be getting plugged into a 10-50 or 10-30. The strap is removed when a 14 series cord goes on.

Oh boy... yeah got the backwards. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

14-50 is the most common plug for the EVs. I agree it is odd.

it shouldnt be.... its an improper use of a receptacle. no neutral is needed and therefore the 14-50 shouldnt be used...

 

[Norcal]

I have no problem with someone making a 6-50P to 14-50R adapter, but to go the other way around is buffoonery...

Dryers, and ranges, have always had a 120 something or another. In the case of the dryer, the motor and controls are 120 and always have been. 10-30 and 10-50 is two hots and a neutral, the ground is bonded to the neutral in the appliance. Brand new dryers and ranges come from the factory with the bond strap installed just in case it will be getting plugged into a 10-50 or 10-30. The strap is removed when a 14 series cord goes on.

That adapter is in suicide cord territory, as in unsafe product category.

 

[mm08822]

It looks like the plug provided on this unit is 14-50 and no other plug option available. Why this choice, seems bass-ackwards as it later shows modifiying the input supply for a hard-wired connection using L1, L2, Gnd only. A 6-50P would have made more sense and provide a 6-50/14-50 adapter or state the need to buy one JIC for portability usage.

Here are 2 links for reference:

https://resourcecenter.qmerit.com/w...-GM-Ultium-EVSE-Manual-Print-file_008-002.pdf (see page 9 & 11.) ............Look at the hard-wired connection pics.

75-001336-01r8-Home Flex-Installation Guide-20230501.pdf | Powered by Box

chargepoint.ent.box.com

As stated above, a 14-50 receptacle on 8-2 Rx is not to code and can easily let someone fry their 120v loads using such a receptacle improperly wired.

 

[kaffine]

odd that it comes with a 14-50P when it doesn't need a neutral

There are likely a lot more 14-50R installed that 6-50R, think RV spots. It makes more sense to use the more common standard. The real issue goes back to when they created the standards. It should have been setup so a 6-50P could plug into a 14-50R but they messed that up.

 

[cybrdyke]

There are likely a lot more 14-50R installed that 6-50R, think RV spots. It makes more sense to use the more common standard. The real issue goes back to when they created the standards. It should have been setup so a 6-50P could plug into a 14-50R but they messed that up.

^^^ THIS is why. EVSE manufacturers want their products to be connectable to the most commonly found receptacles. In a lot of instances, there are already 14-50's present, so it makes sense to provide a cord for 14-50. If you have a 6-50 or want to install one, that would work, too. You'd have to change the cord or the cap on the EVSE.

 

[BrandonV]

The nice thing about the Tesla Mobile Connector is the fact you can swap out the plug for basically anything you'll encounter or run into.

Mobile Connector | Tesla Support

Mobile Connector is useful when you’re away from home and on extended trips. View the charging speed based on your model and adapter.

www.tesla.com

 

[sparky 1971]

There may be more 14-50R's installed in the country, but in my world, it's 6-50's in garages. Regardless, if an EV doesn't need a neutral, it shouldn't come with a 14-50P. Put a 6-50P on it, I have no problem with an adapter to go from a 6-50P to a 14-50R.

Every single EV receptacle I have installed was a 14-50R, I didn't even know there wasn't a neutral. Didn't care either, and still don't. I show up, ask what the customer needs and they pull a cord with a 14-50P out of the trunk.