Installing PEX In Old Farmhouse

[jetnow1]

One thing I have not seen mentioned but have seen happen-where the pex goes through the floor I have seen rats chew the pex trying to enlarge the hole to get in. Had to put copper to the risers of my sisters radiators to several inches down to stop this. Be sure to use the correct rated pex if used for heat systems.

 

[neblinc]

Got most of the PEX ran, what a pain. Crawl spaces are not for the faint of heart. I started with the copper crimps on the manifold and thought there was no way I would be able to get leverage in the crawl space so I went with the stainless clamp tool. Friday will be shut off water day to move the water heater to the basement and hook everything up. Those clips from Menards worked great!

Randy

 

[Plump]

Man! Are you doing my house right now and I don't even know it!!

Looks eerily similar to my basement and the project that awaits me at some point. How did you secure your manifold backing? Is it just to the overhead joists or to the wall/floor too?

I'm sure you're going to be happy once all the dust is out of your lungs!

 

[ishiboo]

Looks like mine except I have a full basement!

In one section, unfortunately, they randomly added all the piping/electrical over paneling which was added over the original lath and plaster. This summer, the unfortunate plan (since I can shut the gas off for a while) is to remove all of it and re-wire/re-plumb.

Should be fun.

 

[Aaron_W]

Wow that doesn't look fun at all. My crawl space is an actual hands and knees or a low stoop crawlspace, not a wriggle on your back or belly space.

We only have one spot under the downstairs bathroom like that and we left that as it was. It was a much later addition so the pipes were newer and in better shape than the rest. That was our excuse anyway, because I wasn't doing the snake crawl.


As much fun as I'm sure that wasn't just imagining doing it with galvanized or copper and you should feel better.

 

[ishiboo]

Wow that doesn't look fun at all. My crawl space is an actual hands and knees or a low stoop crawlspace, not a wriggle on your back or belly space.

We only have one spot under the downstairs bathroom like that and we left that as it was. It was a much later addition so the pipes were newer and in better shape than the rest. That was our excuse anyway, because I wasn't doing the snake crawl.


As much fun as I'm sure that wasn't just imagining doing it with galvanized or copper and you should feel better.

With the press fittings, doing it with galvanized and copper can actually be much easier and more pleasant than PEX for a lot of installs... but the tools are $$$. I am pondering getting the Milwaukee press tool to do my stuff.

Just throwing that out there as I recently found out it existed from TOH. Before that I never knew joining black iron pipe without threading/etc. was possible.

 

[neblinc]

Man! Are you doing my house right now and I don't even know it!!

Looks eerily similar to my basement and the project that awaits me at some point. How did you secure your manifold backing? Is it just to the overhead joists or to the wall/floor too?

I'm sure you're going to be happy once all the dust is out of your lungs!

I have it mounted to the overhead joist and braced against the rock.

Randy

 

[rlitman]

For a true "home run" system -- every outlet has a run back to the manifold ... including the ice maker and dishwasher. If you look at the flow needed -- 1/2 PEX is more than enough ... in fact 3/8 PEX can be used (and has been) for most fixtures. They all have limiters anyway.

The tubing should go directly from the manifold to the fixture -- fittings (if needed anyplace) should be expansion plastic that do not restrict flow.

Remember you are only feeding one fixture -- the manifold has a large feed to it. You can buy pre-insulated PEX for the hot water feeds.

I like the Viega manifolds. Funny thing ... the guys at the supply house said that some manufacturers are changing what they make because they can't get people to use the 3/8th pipe even though its the correct pipe for many applications .. so it's actually costing more in someplace. Some people also like the compression fitting at the manifolds -- in case things are changed .. no pipe damage.

I just re-ran the plumbing in my basement with the PEX and Viega ManaBloc system (in the past few weeks).

I actually installed two manifolds, in the spirit of GJ over-engineering.

From the top of my indirect water heater tank, I split the output. Half directly feeds the hot on one smaller manifold, which now supplies my washing machines, dishwasher and kitchen sink. And half goes through a Watts 70a mixing valve and sends 130F water to the other larger manifold that supplies showers and bathroom sinks.

The cold side of the smaller manifold supplies my outside hose bibbs, so that I can more easily isolate those and blow them out with air for the winter.

I used a mix of 1/2" and 3/8" pipe. 3/8" was easy to get online, but I can't find it locally. However, the ManaBloc will accept either, if you have the right fittings. I ran 3/8" to the bathroom sinks, laundries and toilets, simply because it's more flexible. I used 1/2" for the showers and outdoor spigots.

What sold the ManaBloc system for me was the easy shutoff on every line, and the fact that the valve cores can be replaced if you have issues over time.

 

[Aaron_W]

With the press fittings, doing it with galvanized and copper can actually be much easier and more pleasant than PEX for a lot of installs... but the tools are $$$. I am pondering getting the Milwaukee press tool to do my stuff.

Just throwing that out there as I recently found out it existed from TOH. Before that I never knew joining black iron pipe without threading/etc. was possible.

I have not run across that, all I know is threaded galvanized, sweated copper or glued PVC. I found the PEX easier than any of those, but you do need room for the crimper. We did have a few tight spots and it can be awkward. Nothing as bad as the above photos though thankfully.

We will replumb the one remaining bathroom when it gets a full remodel and the floors come out, someday.

 

[yeldogt]

I just re-ran the plumbing in my basement with the PEX and Viega ManaBloc system (in the past few weeks).

I actually installed two manifolds, in the spirit of GJ over-engineering.

From the top of my indirect water heater tank, I split the output. Half directly feeds the hot on one smaller manifold, which now supplies my washing machines, dishwasher and kitchen sink. And half goes through a Watts 70a mixing valve and sends 130F water to the other larger manifold that supplies showers and bathroom sinks.

The cold side of the smaller manifold supplies my outside hose bibbs, so that I can more easily isolate those and blow them out with air for the winter.

I used a mix of 1/2" and 3/8" pipe. 3/8" was easy to get online, but I can't find it locally. However, the ManaBloc will accept either, if you have the right fittings. I ran 3/8" to the bathroom sinks, laundries and toilets, simply because it's more flexible. I used 1/2" for the showers and outdoor spigots.

What sold the ManaBloc system for me was the easy shutoff on every line, and the fact that the valve cores can be replaced if you have issues over time.

I like the Vega line. Used it for slabs (hydronic radiant) as well. The manifolds are nice .. particularly like that it's all plastic. By all accounts the full port plastic valves and fittings w/ expanding pipe is the way to go. No metal issues and no reduction in flow.

 

[rlitman]

I like the Vega line. Used it for slabs (hydronic radiant) as well. The manifolds are nice .. particularly like that it's all plastic. By all accounts the full port plastic valves and fittings w/ expanding pipe is the way to go. No metal issues and no reduction in flow.

Yeah, those are nice too. Just no red/blue coloring on the valves.

I don't believe that the valves on the ManaBloc are full port. I bought some extra cores in case I need to repair them in the future, and I'll have to take a look. Maybe they're full port for a 3/8" PEX pipe.

I went with crimp fittings. Expanding has its advantages, and I used PEX-A for my one radiant loop (a snow melter), but I decided on PEX-B for my potable water. Compression fittings were an option too, but they require a wrench to install on the ManaBlock, whereas crimp just need to be finger tight.

Anyway, the flow I get now, is significantly better than I had on a branched copper system.

 

[jjgrappler]

I like the Vega line. Used it for slabs (hydronic radiant) as well. The manifolds are nice .. particularly like that it's all plastic. By all accounts the full port plastic valves and fittings w/ expanding pipe is the way to go. No metal issues and no reduction in flow.

How long have you been running the Viega manifold? I was seeing reviews where they were having problems with the manifold leaking.

 

[rlitman]

How long have you been running the Viega manifold? I was seeing reviews where they were having problems with the manifold leaking.

I read a lot of those before investing in mine.

Most were issues with the Vanguard version, which predates the Viega design.
Vanguard used a washer that was compressed to form the port seals. Viega uses an o-ring on each port. The washer had to be compressed by just the right amount. The o-ring can't be messed up.

Also, the compression fittings require getting the torque just right. The crimp fittings I used don't. They're not even hexagonal, so you can't use the wrench on them. They go on easily with two fingers, and that's it. Because of that, you can't apply enough force to cross thread the port either.

Finally, I think I could swap out my whole larger ManaBloc in 15 minutes flat.

Still, when I bought them, I bought an extra key, and a valve core replacement kit (the tool and more cores). I plan to hang them in a spot where they can sit a few decades until the need may arise when parts may be harder to find.